BTW, if you found the coin, acquired it as part of a larger deal, or your four year old took your MS-65 Indian $5 and turned it into that, what would you do with it?
I'd sell it on ebay and have to put up with ebayers telling me it is fake, then altered.
<< <i>The coin is a POS, but how anyone here can be 100% certain that it is not authentic is beyond me. Additionally, the seller guarantees authenticity, and there is a return privilege if you do not like it. There are much bigger fish to fry on ebay than this one. If I were looking to save the world, this ebay auction is not where I would start. >>
If a coin can NOT be authenticated, should you assume it's real or fake?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>FWIW the comparison coin is a 2 1/2 dollar 1911 where the coin for auction is a 5 dollar 1911. >>
True, but I don't have a 1911 five dollar for comparison. Really not much design difference in the two as far as I can tell, but here's a LINK to a five dollar 1911.
I totally agree with your statement It's kinda baffling to me how you feel that post count could mean that someone should be an expert on everything.. And I expect that by that statement you suggest that you are not an expert on this coin type. But given the fact you are (apparently) not an expert, I don't understand how you would say I highly doubt re-engraving. since to "highly doubt" something dies imply a certain high level of expertise. I guess my point is that I definitely agree with Clint Eastwood's movie line "A man should recognize his limitations" and so I try to avoid posts where I offer my opinion about a subject in which I feel I do not have sufficient qualifications.
My take is either fake or altered surfaces. If it is altered surfaces the old surface was completely destroyed to tool those god awful lines into it. >>
compelling argument, fer sure!
WILL WORK FOR CENTS, QUARTERS, HALVES, DOLLARS....
While he was re-engraving the Indian, why didn't he re-engrave the date?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
well all I can say is that hopefully some collector that isnt knowledgable of this series won't bid the price up to $1000 thinking that its high grade and unaltered.
Perryhall you can't see the re-engraving on the date also? Like how the 1's are now straight (not hour glass shaped) and the numbers are thinner and dont have a raised part in the middle of the digits?
I noticed how the "banana shaped" things just below the indians neck are heavily polished down. My guess is that from that point down to the bottom of the coins is probably heavily polished away to make a flat service to completely re-engrave the date. Possible that this wasnt even a 1911 in its original condition
The more I look at the side by side pics, the more I'm convinced that a jeweler re-engraved the obverse for a previous owner to "freshen up" the look of the piece...someone had been wearing it as a pendant for a long time, polished it occasionally and thus caused both sides, but particularly the obverse to be seriously worn- then took it in to see if the jeweler could redo it. I've seen deals like this where the piece has sentimental value for whatever reason. He reengraved the obverse and then polished the -bleep- out of it. Note the reverse lettering still pretty much looks original. Look how deep they went with the reengraving of the obverse stars...
<< <i>well all I can say is that hopefully some collector that isnt knowledgable of this series won't bid the price up to $1000 thinking that its high grade and unaltered. >>
That coin isn't an exactingly crafted forgery designed to fool the most discerning of collectors and it would take very little time and effort to recognize and understand that.
Sorry, but if "some collector" isn't willing to do even a minimal amount of research on an item he isn't knowledegable about (BTW- would anybody who's collected coins for longer than about a week think that coin looks "high grade and unaltered"?) before spending $1000, whose fault would that be, anyway?
If putting a stop to those who'd alter coins in order to cheat people out of their hard-earned dollars is important to you ("you" in general- not directed at any specific poster), I'd suggest there are bigger fish to fry than this particular seller.
lol I work for UPS. To tell ya the truth I'm not really that deep into coin collecting. Never submitted a single coin to a grading company, never went to any coin shows, and never owned a coins valued over $500. I've just done a decent amount of shopping for mid grade gold recently.
lol I work for UPS. To tell ya the truth I'm not really that deep into coin collecting. Never submitted a single coin to a grading company, never went to any coin shows, and never owned a coins valued over $500. I've just done a decent amount of shopping for mid grade gold recently. >>
In that case, while your intentions are no doubt honorable, you probably should not be schooling random ebayers on the lack of authenticity of their raw coins, unless they are obvious fakes (and perhaps after confirming so with someone who is more experienced), if at all.
<< <i>To tell ya the truth I'm not really that deep into coin collecting. Never submitted a single coin to a grading company, never went to any coin shows, and never owned a coins valued over $500. >>
IOW, you're not very experienced with this particular series. And yet, you noticed there was something odd about the coin.
lol I work for UPS. To tell ya the truth I'm not really that deep into coin collecting. Never submitted a single coin to a grading company, never went to any coin shows, and never owned a coins valued over $500. I've just done a decent amount of shopping for mid grade gold recently. >>
In that case, while your intentions are no doubt honorable, you probably should not be schooling random ebayers on the lack of authenticity of their raw coins, unless they are obvious fakes (and perhaps after confirming so with someone who is more experienced), if at all. >>
why not just pass on the coin if you dont like it ?? or send the seller a message and ask him to yake another look at the coin. i see no reason to go beyond that. does anyone ever go to a coin show and try to police the bourse ? would it be appreciated by anyone if a guy started screaming for the security guards if he saw a coin he didnt like the looks of ? seriously, if you dont like a coin what is wrong with just clicking the BACK button ?
lol I work for UPS. To tell ya the truth I'm not really that deep into coin collecting. Never submitted a single coin to a grading company, never went to any coin shows, and never owned a coins valued over $500. I've just done a decent amount of shopping for mid grade gold recently. >>
In that case, while your intentions are no doubt honorable, you probably should not be schooling random ebayers on the lack of authenticity of their raw coins, unless they are obvious fakes (and perhaps after confirming so with someone who is more experienced), if at all. >>
Comments
I'd sell it on ebay and have to put up with ebayers telling me it is fake, then altered.
Steve
<< <i>The coin is a POS, but how anyone here can be 100% certain that it is not authentic is beyond me. Additionally, the seller guarantees authenticity, and there is a return privilege if you do not like it. There are much bigger fish to fry on ebay than this one. If I were looking to save the world, this ebay auction is not where I would start. >>
If a coin can NOT be authenticated, should you assume it's real or fake?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Heavily tooled and highly polished >>
artistically pleasing, but worth less than spot since a few grams are missing.
__________________
__________________
_____________________
(or fill in the blanks because your views are welcome here)
I got a good laugh out of that.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
<< <i>FWIW the comparison coin is a 2 1/2 dollar 1911 where the coin for auction is a 5 dollar 1911. >>
True, but I don't have a 1911 five dollar for comparison. Really not much design difference in the two as far as I can tell, but here's a LINK to a five dollar 1911.
I totally agree with your statement It's kinda baffling to me how you feel that post count could mean that someone should be an expert on everything.. And I expect that by that statement you suggest that you are not an expert on this coin type. But given the fact you are (apparently) not an expert, I don't understand how you would say I highly doubt re-engraving. since to "highly doubt" something dies imply a certain high level of expertise. I guess my point is that I definitely agree with Clint Eastwood's movie line "A man should recognize his limitations" and so I try to avoid posts where I offer my opinion about a subject in which I feel I do not have sufficient qualifications.
<< <i>
<< <i>Here's one for comparison-
Now add the e-bay version:
My take is either fake or altered surfaces. If it is altered surfaces the old surface was completely destroyed to tool those god awful lines into it. >>
compelling argument, fer sure!
1879-O{Rev}: 1st coin of my "secret set"
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Perryhall you can't see the re-engraving on the date also? Like how the 1's are now straight (not hour glass shaped) and the numbers are thinner and dont have a raised part in the middle of the digits?
I noticed how the "banana shaped" things just below the indians neck are heavily polished down. My guess is that from that point down to the bottom of the coins is probably heavily polished away to make a flat service to completely re-engrave the date. Possible that this wasnt even a 1911 in its original condition
What do you do in real life?
<< <i>konsole
What do you do in real life? >>
He assumes.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>well all I can say is that hopefully some collector that isnt knowledgable of this series won't bid the price up to $1000 thinking that its high grade and unaltered. >>
That coin isn't an exactingly crafted forgery designed to fool the most discerning of collectors and it would take very little time and effort to recognize and understand that.
Sorry, but if "some collector" isn't willing to do even a minimal amount of research on an item he isn't knowledegable about (BTW- would anybody who's collected coins for longer than about a week think that coin looks "high grade and unaltered"?) before spending $1000, whose fault would that be, anyway?
If putting a stop to those who'd alter coins in order to cheat people out of their hard-earned dollars is important to you ("you" in general- not directed at any specific poster), I'd suggest there are bigger fish to fry than this particular seller.
<< <i>konsole
What do you do in real life? >>
lol I work for UPS. To tell ya the truth I'm not really that deep into coin collecting. Never submitted a single coin to a grading company, never went to any coin shows, and never owned a coins valued over $500. I've just done a decent amount of shopping for mid grade gold recently.
<< <i>
<< <i>konsole
What do you do in real life? >>
lol I work for UPS. To tell ya the truth I'm not really that deep into coin collecting. Never submitted a single coin to a grading company, never went to any coin shows, and never owned a coins valued over $500. I've just done a decent amount of shopping for mid grade gold recently. >>
In that case, while your intentions are no doubt honorable, you probably should not be schooling random ebayers on the lack of authenticity of their raw coins, unless they are obvious fakes (and perhaps after confirming so with someone who is more experienced), if at all.
<< <i>To tell ya the truth I'm not really that deep into coin collecting. Never submitted a single coin to a grading company, never went to any coin shows, and never owned a coins valued over $500. >>
IOW, you're not very experienced with this particular series. And yet, you noticed there was something odd about the coin.
So- what's the problem again?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>konsole
What do you do in real life? >>
lol I work for UPS. To tell ya the truth I'm not really that deep into coin collecting. Never submitted a single coin to a grading company, never went to any coin shows, and never owned a coins valued over $500. I've just done a decent amount of shopping for mid grade gold recently. >>
In that case, while your intentions are no doubt honorable, you probably should not be schooling random ebayers on the lack of authenticity of their raw coins, unless they are obvious fakes (and perhaps after confirming so with someone who is more experienced), if at all. >>
Thank you RYK
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>konsole
What do you do in real life? >>
lol I work for UPS. To tell ya the truth I'm not really that deep into coin collecting. Never submitted a single coin to a grading company, never went to any coin shows, and never owned a coins valued over $500. I've just done a decent amount of shopping for mid grade gold recently. >>
In that case, while your intentions are no doubt honorable, you probably should not be schooling random ebayers on the lack of authenticity of their raw coins, unless they are obvious fakes (and perhaps after confirming so with someone who is more experienced), if at all. >>
Thank you RYK
May I have another?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1