Does the coin hobby need a new service...........
PerryHall
Posts: 46,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
Does the coin hobby need a service to evaluate, identify, and sticker coins with original surfaces. I was shocked when I read here that JA didn't mind dipped coins and that CAC wouldn't reject a coin for being dipped. I know many collectors prefer original coins and that determining if a coin is original is a judgement call just as determining if a coin is AT or determining the grade. How many of you prefer to only buy original coins? What do you think?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
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WS
And there are some coins, such a Proof silver pieces from the 1930s and early ‘40s that need to be dipped. Many of those coins have a haze on them that is very unattractive. The purest won’t even buy them.
Here is a case in point. The 1873-4 with arrows is something less than one of my favorite type coins. It’s expensive and not easy to find, but history surrounding it is never going to be the subject of an interesting book. Therefore when I saw this piece in a PCGS MS-63, holder at a fair price, I bought it. The coin fills the hole, and it pleases me. A couple of people across the street jumped all over my purchase after I posted pictures of it. They are among "the original coins only persuasion" and voiced their dislike for this piece.
Well that’s okay. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But when it gets beyond opinions are starts to become an organized effort where one person and small group of people can use stickers to cast dispersions upon the coins that do not have those stickers, I have a problem. It’s okay for retail sales descriptions and auction house write-ups to provide descriptions of coins that aid buyers in their selections. It’s quite another to use stickers as a method further marketing to goals.
There are some coins that should be pointed out for problems. There are others which fall into the matter of opinion area, and for those no one person have a veto power over the market for them. This gets back to my opposition to a market where there would be only one grading service.
There is also the question of being about to tell when a coin has never been dipped. Sometimes the term “original now” applies. Some coins retone quite nicely, and in those cases it really does not matter.
..........as long as they're not painted.
<< <i>This is all a crock of spit..... I am really tired of evaluations of evaluators and all the attendant BS..... Dipping is acceptable... always has been... get over it. Pay all you want for other opinions, I do not give a rat's patootie what you do with your money. If I were giving advice, I would tell y'all to learn to grade yourself. What rubbish. Cheers, RickO >>
Rick---Tell us how you really feel.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>This is all a crock of spit..... I am really tired of evaluations of evaluators and all the attendant BS..... Dipping is acceptable... always has been... get over it. Pay all you want for other opinions, I do not give a rat's patootie what you do with your money. If I were giving advice, I would tell y'all to learn to grade yourself. What rubbish. Cheers, RickO >>
Stick to popping circulation found Lincolns into your little blue Whitman folder.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
<< <i>If you can't tell original surfaces in the series you collect and you are an advanced or middle-advanced collector, you shouldn't be purchasing mid to high end slabbed coins.
Stick to popping circulation found Lincolns into your little blue Whitman folder. >>
Couldn't you say the same concerning grading or detecting AT, puttying, PVC, tooling, etc?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I do not need nor want a sticker or stickers cluttering up the slab. This all seems so silly to me,
I pay no grading fees and no sticker fees. I do buy slab coins off of ebay. I do not submit raw coins to be certified.
Guess what I do with all the money I don't spend on stickers or certifying, I buy really high quality error coins instead of plastic and glue.
<< <i>Couldn't you say the same concerning grading or detecting AT, puttying, PVC, tooling, etc? >>
Honestly, yes, you are right.
I guess it depends on how good the doctor is at altering the coin...
but doesn't original surfaces encompass these items too?
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
<< <i>
<< <i>Couldn't you say the same concerning grading or detecting AT, puttying, PVC, tooling, etc? >>
Honestly, yes, you are right.
I guess it depends on how good the doctor is at altering the coin...
but doesn't original surfaces encompass these items too? >>
Yes, but CAC and the top grading services consider dipped non-original coins acceptible and there is a significant number of collectors that want original coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A sticker should be placed on the side of the slab so you would know when it needed service next.
A long time ago, on another forum, an advanced collector posited that the grading services see so many messed with coins, that when a truly original coin comes down the pike, they sometimes bag it because they see so few of them. I'm not saying this is true or not, just the opinion of a specialist who knew as much about his series as most of the pro graders. I'm afraid an "original surfaces" designation would go along those lines, a good many "faux" coins would make it and a good many honestly original coins would not.
/edit to add: compared to the above, I would prefer the CAC reality based stickering vs. what would almost surely be either a "faux" original market standard, or a service so tight that only 3% of currently slabbed early type coins would pass. "Faux" or 3% would be next to useless. Faux would do actual damage as more coins would likely get messed with to achieve yet another doctoring target. CAC recognizes that a high percentage of 19th century coins have been messed with in some way, and sticker accordingly.