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Can someone please explain how...

thisnamztakenthisnamztaken Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
this Peace Dollar received a grade of MS-64 by NGC?

It appears to have been held between a greasy thumb and forefinger, skidded across a chicken coop floor, retrieved a week later from under a layer of hen manure, and then submitted for slabbing! If this belongs to a member here, please forgive my bit of sarcasm, but I just don't understand this grade. image
I never thought that growing old would happen so fast.
- Jim

Comments

  • savoyspecialsavoyspecial Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭✭
    NGC should want that coin off the market

    www.brunkauctions.com

  • stinkinlincolnstinkinlincoln Posts: 2,733 ✭
    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,369 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Proof that original isn't always best and proof that some coins should be cleaned.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • StubbyMcNumbthumbsStubbyMcNumbthumbs Posts: 1,259 ✭
    Even the hologram is crusty!

    I think I'll pass, thank you.


  • pocketpiececommemspocketpiececommems Posts: 5,957 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They surely have a way of figuring out which grader was responsible for that one. That's worse than terrible. Do you think the winner will try to cross it?image
    Pocketpiececommemoratives

    Lafayette Grading Set
  • RedTigerRedTiger Posts: 5,608 ✭
    BIN price is high, if it were a true auction, I would guess that someone would take it home for about 50% above MS64 greysheet price (which is about current market for common Peace dollars). Beauty, and grading, is in the eye of the beholder.
    Investment blog: gold, stocks and more
  • ShortieShortie Posts: 72
    I believe that coin is from a group of known AT Peace dollars, all bearing a common serial number prefix. It must have turned in its holder.
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    .........NO CAC FOR YOU!image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,270 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NGC probably graded this coin during a period when they really seemed to be "into" toned coins. It did not matter how ugly the toning was, they graded. A lot of these coins were AT; many were dark; and most were not up to the grades assigned. After a while they got their act together on this stuff, but the bids for their coins were often lower after that, at least for Mint State material.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • stinkinlincolnstinkinlincoln Posts: 2,733 ✭
    <<I believe that coin is from a group of known AT Peace dollars, all bearing a common serial number prefix. It must have turned in its holder.>>


    If it was AT to being with, how did it turn in its holder? I thought holders were air tight? I know TPG's like to say toned coins are stable, but if it turned in the holder, isnt there a bigger problem?
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500 ✭
    holders are not air tight


    it may have been AT or NT but it surely continued to tone in the holder from previous exposure from something


    when NGC saw it, they felt it was a 64 - we all seem to agree that now it is ugly and would not make it today if submitted looking like that




  • ShortieShortie Posts: 72


    << <i><<I believe that coin is from a group of known AT Peace dollars, all bearing a common serial number prefix. It must have turned in its holder.>>


    If it was AT to being with, how did it turn in its holder? I thought holders were air tight? I know TPG's like to say toned coins are stable, but if it turned in the holder, isnt there a bigger problem? >>



    You are incorrect. Many coins turn in holders. Holders are not air tight, and no one has ever claimed so.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,270 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i><<I believe that coin is from a group of known AT Peace dollars, all bearing a common serial number prefix. It must have turned in its holder.>>


    If it was AT to being with, how did it turn in its holder? I thought holders were air tight? I know TPG's like to say toned coins are stable, but if it turned in the holder, isnt there a bigger problem? >>



    You are incorrect. Many coins turn in holders. Holders are not air tight, and no one has ever claimed so. >>



    It's not just a matter of whether or not the holder is airtight. If the coin had chemicals, like dipping solution residue on it when it when into the holder, it will tone and continue to tone. Also some AT juck just does not stop a certain point. It keeps eating the medal, sometimes until the coin turns black if it's silver.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ASUtoddASUtodd Posts: 1,312 ✭✭
    Could also be a fake slab that this person bought and is now trying to move it....
    www.GoASU.com
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i><<I believe that coin is from a group of known AT Peace dollars, all bearing a common serial number prefix. It must have turned in its holder.>>


    If it was AT to being with, how did it turn in its holder? I thought holders were air tight? I know TPG's like to say toned coins are stable, but if it turned in the holder, isnt there a bigger problem? >>



    1. No holders aren't airtight.
    2. The chemical reactions that cause toning don't necessarily need air although often the chemicals that cause them are transported in the air.
    3. The thought is that if a coin is ATd today and graded tomorrow the chemical process may not be fully stabilized at that time, thus it may change in the holder.
    4. With so many people not realizing that holders aren't airtight, I'm surprised we don't see more slabs full of water from people washing them in the sink.

    --Jerry
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,491 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>They surely have a way of figuring out which grader was responsible for that one. >>



    All grading from TPG's is consensus grading meaning that more than two graders must agree on the grade in addition to the grading finalizer. In other words, no one individual is responsible for any single graded coin. The TPG is.
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • joecopperjoecopper Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    graders were drunk or it is in a fake holder - ugly regardless
    no sympathy for anyone who would pay for that grade
  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    Fake coins, fake slabs, soon to come, fake CAC.

    I am not even sure that I am not fake too.image
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ugly should have nothing to do with 64. Neither should pretty. The coin grades whatever it does regardless of the toning.


    Note: I am not saying that this should or should not be an NGC MS-64. I don't collect the series and have no idea how it should grade. All I am saying is that the toning should be irrelevant to the grade.
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 13,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If a flood victim was compensated by an insurance firm could the coins wind up back on the market?


    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • FatManFatMan Posts: 8,977 ✭
    Chances are the coin has turned in the holder. Not at all that unusual when coins are messed with prior to being holdered.

    Below is a 1928 Peace I purchased about 10 years ago in a PCGS holder. It was tone free and freshly holdered. After about a year it looked like this. Obviously the coin was dipped and not rinsed/neutralized properly. In this case it was a dipped coin but AT'd coins that get through are often not stable and turn to crap as well.

    image
  • GreeniejrGreeniejr Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭
    Same way this one is a 64. Yes I am the seller of this Link
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,444 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Same way this one is a 64. Yes I am the seller of this Link >>



    I've added you to my "favorite sellers" list.
    I'll be asking for favors, too. image
  • nankrautnankraut Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Same way this one is a 64. Yes I am the seller of this Link >>



    I've added you to my "favorite sellers" list.
    I'll be asking for favors, too. image >>



    Hey! You have two bids already. Get rid of that sucker......and hope the buyer sees it for what it is and doesn't try to return it.
    I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
  • StubbyMcNumbthumbsStubbyMcNumbthumbs Posts: 1,259 ✭


    << <i>Ugly should have nothing to do with 64. Neither should pretty. The coin grades whatever it does regardless of the toning...

    .... the toning should be irrelevant to the grade. >>





    I agree, and so does my copy of the ANA Grading Standards guide.
  • GreeniejrGreeniejr Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭
    That is the wonderful thing about eBay. You can point out how big of a piece of crud a coin is and someone will still buy it. I have sold some pretty awful coins on eBay and have not had anything sent back. My feeling is that if I put something up, accurately describe it, emphasize problems and start it at 1 cent, I am not responsible for what people pay.
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wonder if it has something to do with the warm moist climate of Hawaii, and possibly altered?
    I'll call it BUT, butt ugly toner.
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,369 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ugly should have nothing to do with 64. Neither should pretty. The coin grades whatever it does regardless of the toning. >>



    Not true as long as eye appeal is a grading factor.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,499 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Ugly should have nothing to do with 64. Neither should pretty. The coin grades whatever it does regardless of the toning. >>



    Not true as long as eye appeal is a grading factor. >>



    No, eye appeal is a PRICING factor. Of course, since the TPGs do price rather than grade coins....
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,369 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Ugly should have nothing to do with 64. Neither should pretty. The coin grades whatever it does regardless of the toning. >>



    Not true as long as eye appeal is a grading factor. >>



    No, eye appeal is a PRICING factor. Of course, since the TPGs do price rather than grade coins.... >>



    Yup. The TPG's assign market grades rather than technical grades. Right or wrong, it's the way things are in the coin industry.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭
    The coin is in Hawaii so it's more likely pork fat than grease and toning came from a luau fire pit not from a chicken coop
  • tmoneyeaglestmoneyeagles Posts: 442
    That is one ugly toned, worn MS64 Peace Dollar image
    ME NO LIKEY... image
    How did that grade 64?????? YUCK!

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