Calling all autograph experts - Albert Pujols Christian Family Day Card Signed

frankhardy · June 22, 2009 9:29AM

I am 100% sure that this is not a forged autograph. My question is - did they ever make a 2005 Christian Family Day card with a facsimile autograph? I bought this card off of Ebay because the autograph looks 100% legit. I got it today. I looked at it really close, and it almost looks like the autograph was made with the card. You would think you would be able to see the Sharpie strokes under a loupe. I have seen many of these cards WITHOUT THE AUTOGRAPH.

Does anybody know if they made this card with a facsimile autograph? Also, could someone with a pop report see if these cards are gradeable?

Here is a link to the auction (I'm too lazy to scan it myself right now).

Pujols Signed Card

frankhardy · June 22, 2009 9:46AM

I just signed a few modern cards with a sharpie, and you can definitely see strokes overlapping and also "missing ink" through some strokes. I used 2 different sharpies. This Pujols signature is just too perfect as far as the ink goes. Is there another writing instrument better than a Sharpie that would make the signature "solid" like this?

HeritageAddict · June 22, 2009 10:16AM

I would think you if you tilt it in the light a bit you should be able to tell, but maybe not.

frankhardy · June 22, 2009 11:11AM

When tilting it in the light, it does look the same as a sharpie signature. There are just no smudges. The autograph is just to solid and too perfect.

csmtampa · June 22, 2009 12:10PM

I know over on sportscollectors.net a few people who ran into Pujols and asked for an autograph out in town, on vacation etc... Pujols would give them this already "signed" card. Without seeing it in person, I can't say since I can't see the ink.

frankhardy · June 22, 2009 1:18PM

<< I know over on sportscollectors.net a few people who ran into Pujols and asked for an autograph out in town, on vacation etc... Pujols would give them this already "signed" card. Without seeing it in person, I can't say since I can't see the ink. >>

Interesting. Could it be an autopen or could he have some cards that have the auto pre-printed that he passes out? I really cannot tell, and I've looked at it 10 or 15 times under a loupe.

csmtampa · June 22, 2009 2:05PM

send it in under the psa/dna half off special

frankhardy · June 22, 2009 10:07PM

I don't see where they are having a half off special.

I wonder if the card was posted at sportscollectors.net would they know if the signature was pre-printed? I am not a member anymore, so I can't post it.

WinPitcher · June 22, 2009 11:32PM

Shane

The seller claims he got it in person, perhaps an email to him would clear
up any confusion?

Steve

frankhardy · June 22, 2009 11:36PM

I thought about that, but I think I want my ducks in a row before I confront him.

frankhardy · June 23, 2009 12:21AM

I have discovered this on sportscolletors.net. I just joined back up this morning and I have not had a reply yet. I was browsing trying to find something on this card and stumbled across this photo. This one appears real because you can see the Sharpie strokes. I am going to inquire about this card. Mine is the top card. The one I'm speaking of is the bottom one.

WinPitcher · June 23, 2009 12:59AM

Not sure what you mean by confronting him.

I'd simply tell him my concerns.

I'd ask in a non aggressive way (I know can you believe that)

Sorry you have to stress over this.

Hopefully it is a non issue.

Steve

frankhardy · June 23, 2009 1:04AM

I just did. I just told him -

"Thanks for the quick shipment. I was just wondering - did he sign this in your presence, or did he give it to your son already signed? Thanks."

We'll see what he says.

WinPitcher · June 23, 2009 1:50AM

Shane

Is it possible that the pen he used to sign yours was brand new and that is why
it looks so perfect?

Steve

frankhardy · June 23, 2009 1:54AM

<< Shane

Is it possible that the pen he used to sign yours was brand new and that is why
it looks so perfect?

Steve >>

That is one of the things that I am wondering. I may try to get a brand new sharpie and test it out myself. If I can get a perfect, full ink flow on a signature with a brand new sharpie, I would fee better about it.

frankhardy · June 23, 2009 10:14PM

I got a reply from the seller. This was his response.

***************

He signed it in our presence.
Glad to hear you got it!
Enjoy the card!!
Thanks

***************

Also, over on the Sportscollectors.net message boards, I got a reply from the guy who owns the other signed card above. Here was his response after asking him about the whole situation and asking about his card.

**********

Honestly, I don't know much of the history of the card. When I met Pujols he already had them signed in his pocket. He gave me two of them and they were different autographs on each. I actually got rid of one, but the autograph had a fading black sharpie on it. The one I kept looks good and is a full auto.

In regards to yours, I would say it's real and not printed. Looking at yours, right inside the A seems to have a dot in it. Every one of these cards I've seen (6 of them) all are different looking...I would say yours older I think yours is good. Maybe it was one of the first ones he signed with a new sharpie. Really took his time on it. I think it would pass PSA imo.

BunchOBull · June 23, 2009 10:30PM

Shane,

This is the first time I've seen the upclose picture...I think you're okay. Looks like a good Sharpie to me.

I've noticed that some surfaces almost "bond" to the Sharpie...meaning they are absorbed to the point of being more than surface dwelling.

Looks good to me in all respects, authenticity and as being a true hand signature and not auto pen.

frankhardy · June 23, 2009 10:42PM

<< Shane,

This is the first time I've seen the upclose picture...I think you're okay. Looks like a good Sharpie to me.

I've noticed that some surfaces almost "bond" to the Sharpie...meaning they are absorbed to the point of being more than surface dwelling.

Looks good to me in all respects, authenticity and as being a true hand signature and not auto pen. >>

The up close picture is not mine. I got it from the sportscollectors.net boards in order to compare.

BunchOBull · June 23, 2009 10:48PM

That's what I get for not reading. Do you have a closer shot of yours available? Sometimes a large scan in which the image colors are inverted will reveal the subtle nuances that can't easily be seen with the naked eye.

WinPitcher · June 23, 2009 11:38PM

.I would say yours older I think yours is good. Maybe it was one of the first ones he signed with a new sharpie.

That's what I'm thinking.

Steve

frankhardy · June 24, 2009 1:39AM

<< That's what I get for not reading. Do you have a closer shot of yours available? Sometimes a large scan in which the image colors are inverted will reveal the subtle nuances that can't easily be seen with the naked eye. >>

That's a good idea. I will try that later on this afternoon when I get home.

csmtampa · June 24, 2009 2:51AM

PSA/DNA June Special

frankhardy · June 24, 2009 6:02AM

Good news for me (I think). I just got a couple of new Sharpies and tried them several times on some new cards. I got the same results as my Pujols. I could not see the strokes, the ink mark was full, and I could not see the ink piling on at the intersections. I didn't realize that a new Sharpie made that much of a difference. I actually signed my name on some 2007 Topps cards and it looked like my signature was printed on them. My autograph is pretty cool, by the way. I should have been MLB player. Oh well.

BunchOBull · June 24, 2009 6:35AM

Glad to hear it! Your signature is good, so as long as it's real!

Send that bad boy in.

frankhardy · June 24, 2009 8:34AM

Here is a regular sized scan and then a super sized scan. It is amazing what shows up with a scan that doesn't even show up with a loupe. On the super sized scan, take a look at the P where the loop ends. You can definitely see a stop mark. Also, you can see through the Sharpie ink. I would think that if it was pre-printed, you would not be able to see through it. Agreed? Since I am sure that this is real now, this is one fine signature. I wonder if I should get the signature graded?

fandango · June 25, 2009 10:42AM

Shane, if its any help, here is mine that i got at a similar event....

BunchOBull · June 25, 2009 1:36PM

Looks like the real deal to me Shane.

Robb · June 25, 2009 2:47PM

He must have really taken his time when signing that card. If it weren't for the separation of ink at the closing of the 'P' and the drag of the dot on the 'j' I would think this to be a facsimile.

csmtampa · June 25, 2009 3:19PM

Yea apparently he signed them I would say at his house, because he would hand them out when people would ask him for his autograph.

frankhardy · July 8, 2009 10:55PM

THIS IS A BUNCH OF BULL!!!!!!!!!!!

Order Status

PSA/DNA Order Status for Submission # 189820
Cert # Item Primary Signer Result/Grade
83026323 TRADING CARD ALBERT PUJOLS Questionable Authenticity
Date Received: 07-02-2009
Date Verified: 07-08-2009
Date Shipped: Not Available

BunchOBull · July 8, 2009 11:47PM

hmmm, that surprises me

stormsurge · July 8, 2009 11:53PM

Oh man bum deal

Allen · July 9, 2009 3:42AM

Maybe because it is a preprint?

WinPitcher · July 9, 2009 4:36AM

It is just an opinion......

What do you plan on doing?

Sorry this happened.

Steve

csmtampa · July 9, 2009 6:22AM

PSA/DNA just goofed. Id send it JSA or send it back to PSA/DNA when you get it back

caramelcollector · July 9, 2009 6:26AM

bummer

i dont agree

frankhardy · July 9, 2009 6:30AM

<< It is just an opinion......

What do you plan on doing?

Sorry this happened.

Steve >>

I don't really know what to do. I have sent an email to the Ebay seller requesting a refund. I have not heard back yet. Even if I get me money back, I am still out about $40 for authentication and return shipping. I was (still am) sure that this it is the real deal.

MinorLeagueSource · July 9, 2009 6:47AM

I believe it wouldnt pass JSA

okposo21 · July 9, 2009 7:04AM

Yes, I don't believe it would pass either. It might be good, but there are a some fishy things about it. Although, fishy hasn't kept PSADNA from certifying autos before.

Ironmanfan · July 9, 2009 7:05AM

I think it's printed/stamped

frankhardy · July 10, 2009 12:18AM

I just got an email back from the seller. Here is what he said -

I don't know why they would have rejected it. That doesn't make sense. It is a real autograph, he signed it right in front of us.
I would try to talk to PSA.
Sorry

Ironmanfan · July 10, 2009 1:25AM

<< I just got an email back from the seller. Here is what he said -

I don't know why they would have rejected it. That doesn't make sense. It is a real autograph, he signed it right in front of us.
I would try to talk to PSA.
Sorry >>

What other response do you expect from the seller?....probably just covering his behind (1-800-STORY)

sorry this happened to you

frankhardy · July 10, 2009 2:40AM

Mr Orlando replied to my email asking for a review. He did have them review it and they stand by their decision. I now have another email sent to him asking whether or not they thought it was pre-printed or whether they thought it was faked. I hope to have a response.

frankhardy · July 10, 2009 12:48PM

Well, I got another email from the seller. Looks like he is denying my refund. Here is what he said -

****************

I don't understand why they are denying it. I feel like I did not advertise it falsely. I said he signed it in front of us, but never said that it was authencated. I am sorry they are denying it, I had no idea they would or why, but I feel I did advertise it truly. So, I do not want to give a refund. I sold an authentic item.

****************

Looks like I will be filing a Paypal claim of "significantly not as described". Do you guys think I will win?

thenavarro · July 10, 2009 12:53PM

I think you will win as long as you are in the proper timeframe.

Good luck!!

Mike

WinPitcher · July 10, 2009 9:24PM

I was (still am) sure that this it is the real deal.

Then what is the problem Shane? And if you feel this way why ask the seller for a refund?

If you feel it is real that should be the only thing that matters.

Steve

WinPitcher · July 10, 2009 9:26PM

Yep you most probably will win as long as you are within the timeframe.

Sorry this happened to you, I know you really liked that card.

I'm wondering why the seller never had it authenticated, would the value rise substantially if it was authenticated?

Steve

fandango · July 10, 2009 10:17PM

steve, the value would rise a good amount...

maybe PSA was uncomfortable with it because it was not a major issue card.....

i thik the auto's on obscure cards are that much cooler!

frankhardy · July 11, 2009 1:40AM

<< I was (still am) sure that this it is the real deal.

Then what is the problem Shane? And if you feel this way why ask the seller for a refund?

If you feel it is real that should be the only thing that matters.

Steve >>

Because if I ever decided that I wanted to sell it, it would not bring nearly what it what bring if it was authenticated by PSA/DNA. It is not my opinion that matters, it is PSA's. Now, if I saw it get auto'd in person myself, then I would not care (unless I wanted to sell it).

swartz1 · July 11, 2009 1:46AM

I'd get a second opinion...

WinPitcher · July 11, 2009 3:23AM

Not sure if he has time to get a second opinion. If it was me and I felt strongly that it was legit I would not care
what PSA said. If I cared and was hesitant in my belief of it being real I'd file the SNAD and be done with it.

Of course I'd only file the SNAD after I asked the seller for a refund, something Shane already has done.

Tuff call.

Steve

Calling all autograph experts - Albert Pujols Christian Family Day Card Signed

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