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Stman Tries To Drink The Kool-aid On 1802 Draped Bust Half *Updated in first post*
stman
Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've only sent perhaps a couple handfuls of coins for crossover from NGC to PCGS. So far I was 100% successful. This is over many years. I had a local dealer walk this coin through at the recent Baltimore show. It has to be a special coin for me to do this, and this is a tough and for me an expensive coin....... and I thought kinda special. I have mixed feelings as far as grade on this one, and why I attempted a cross. Old fatty holder too, L@@K 
So, what did PCGS Do?.......... Thanks for the comments all. I personally feel the coin is probably on the line between 40-45. I'm tough on my own coins and my gut says 40. I want to see more luster for 45. There can be a big price gap between 40 and 45 on these. Since I feel I paid more toward the 40 range that's what I was willing to accept. And that's what I got.
I feel it's a slam dunk solid to upper end 40.
So, what did PCGS Do?.......... Thanks for the comments all. I personally feel the coin is probably on the line between 40-45. I'm tough on my own coins and my gut says 40. I want to see more luster for 45. There can be a big price gap between 40 and 45 on these. Since I feel I paid more toward the 40 range that's what I was willing to accept. And that's what I got.
I feel it's a slam dunk solid to upper end 40.
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In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Are you asking what PCGS did? If so, you may want to change part of your post. >>
Done
(I'd say PCGS bumped it right into their own slab with no issues or hesitations at or about the same grade.)
Nice coin!
peacockcoins
If it's wear then XF40
If PCGS is not sure then a straight cross at XF45
I'd say that coin should have crossed no problem. Doesn't mean it did or would have. If there are some traces of luster on the coin I wouldn't preclude an AU-50 grade. Most of the XF-AU 1802's are dipped and/or lightly to moderatly cleaned. The best you can normally find are ones that are only screwed with a little. That fact that NGC called yours "brown" is a compliment assuming they didn't just mess up. Yours appears to be a nice one with strong detailing. Most of those that once looked like this were taken by doctors to be scrubbed into AU's. Unfortunately that game is over for the time being so the coin remains a great XF45 imo. Of the 2 dozen or so coins shown in XF40 to AU50 in my older pop report, I'd bet no more than a few pieces are as original as yours.
With the current market downturn, older NGC holders mean a lot less today than they did 1-3 years ago. Buyers just don't care, all they see is the NGC holder. They'd much rather have it PCGS or at least NGC CAC'd. I had one person recently offer me 65% of next grade down on a group of cheaper NGC coins I had. This was due to the NGC risk factor as he put it. The fact that most of the NGC coins were decent and in fatty-no barcode holders made zero difference. While I don't agree with all of this, it is a sign of where things continue to head.
roadrunner
There's an ongoing discussion right now about crossovers and it being in the interest of PCGS to place nice coins in PCGS plastic.
I wonder if this is one of those "same grade" crossovers simply for the slab change.
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I'd say this is a strong EF-40, with an equal chance of crossing straight into EF-45.
Definitely not enough for an AU, but I've been surprised before!
As for the "Brown" on the NGC insert, could this be a pedigree rather than a color designation?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
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<< <i>That is my kind of half, anything that one would buy from Tom is a great coin, Statman you are a very fortunate collector! >>
Stmans 1802 is nice, it looks EF45 wear with subdued luster.
If I was grading the coin, I would give it
a full 50 grade. The hair has so much
wonderful detail to it.
Camelot
It is a very nice coin.
GrandAm
<< <i>Who cares what the grade is, that coin is beautiful. >>
I'll say PCGS crossed at same.
This 1802 Half graded NGC 45 would likely, these last two months, grade about XF 40 with PCGS, unless PCGS bagged it for some reason.
I agree with Nysoto when he says "Must be the mood they are in at the time." about PCGS crossovers from NGC being inconsistent. Unless I hear PCGS changes from their present brutal crossover grading standards, I will not be submitting anything to PCGS. The PCGS decision to not cross because of "questionable toning" is what upsets me the most. PCGS seems to be running scared on beautiful toning.
Also, NGC has been rather brutally conservative more recently in their grading as well. I have a few that to me look rather undergraded. Especially on weaker strikes.
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http://www.busthalfaddict.com
K
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
I could say I like the way they look in PCGS holders, they image better, for my heirs for resale, but I wouldn't be telling the truth. The fact is, on a coin like this although it speaks for itself...... the marketability is much better in PCGS holders. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.
With this economy and being self-employed (and still doing well BTW) if I should need or want to sell I know it would sell much quicker in a PCGS holder, IF, it got into one
I don't like the stuff on the eagle's breast. Looks like the only thing wrong with that coin.
But, it still takes awhile to take my eyes off of it.
Very nice,
bob
As you already know this one is a top shelf coin that is worth more than the average car on the road today.
That said, I sure hope that PCGS crossed this one as a 45.
The only problem is that someone OBVIOUSLY threw the switch at the TPG's and they are bagging 1/2 their own previously graded coins (boy they must love getting those out of the old holders that had liability as overgraded and now have NO liability as Genuine or bagged coins AND made money on the coins again) and calling everything altered/cleaned/questionable etc etc etc.
I got my fingers crossed for a 45 and think that a 40 grade is almost as bad as a genuine slab on this one.
Good luck buddy.
Frankcoins, I'm flattered, but, although I've owned (2) PCGS-45 and (1) NGC-40 1802 bust halves in the last several years, I've never seen the TomB (Robinson Brown) piece in person. It looks to be a very attractive half dollar...
Best wishes for all involved...
Preturb
I feel it's a slam dunk solid to upper end 40.
I haven't read the entire thread yet but
do you already know the grade?
Or is it still being "processed" and you're asking for opinions?
Gorgeous coin!
Why not just leave it in the old NGC fatty holder?
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
BTW, just curious, did PCGS keep the pedigree with the crossover?
Sounds like the grade is acceptable and since you will be keeping it for a long time to come it does not really matter so much what the holder says.
<< <i>I also feel that coins such as this in the old NGC Fattie holders with the Pedigree, Brown/TomB, would have maintained it's value and maybe done better than the coin now in a PCGS 40 holder. True collectors would have purchased this coin from you in the future for your ask price in the NGC holder. >>
LeeG, fair enough, I agree value would have been maintained. But as I said earlier, the marketability is better in the PCGS holder. I don't like it but that's the way it is now.
And I know this for a fact considering when I purchased the coin. I believe in this market if I decided to sell next week, it would sell much faster than in the NGC holder.
I don't like this way of thought but this seems to be the norm these days. Oh, BTW, it had the "Brown" pedigree on it, no "TomB" pedigree. I see the new thing these days is if someone owned a coin before, even a dealer this board automatically gives a "pedigree" to it.
Edit to add, now I went and killed the thread again.
<< <i>But as I said earlier, the marketability is better in the PCGS holder. I don't like it but that's the way it is now. >>
I agree with you, but with emphasis on your word 'now'. Unless you are planning to sell it now, then I'd have left it as is (though I don't believe you asked my opinion!).
<< <i>
<< <i>I also feel that coins such as this in the old NGC Fattie holders with the Pedigree, Brown/TomB, would have maintained it's value and maybe done better than the coin now in a PCGS 40 holder. True collectors would have purchased this coin from you in the future for your ask price in the NGC holder. >>
LeeG, fair enough, I agree value would have been maintained. But as I said earlier, the marketability is better in the PCGS holder. I don't like it but that's the way it is now.
And I know this for a fact considering when I purchased the coin. I believe in this market if I decided to sell next week, it would sell much faster than in the NGC holder.
I don't like this way of thought but this seems to be the norm these days. Oh, BTW, it had the "Brown" pedigree on it, no "TomB" pedigree. I see the new thing these days is if someone owned a coin before, even a dealer this board automatically gives a "pedigree" to it.
Edit to add, now I went and killed the thread again.
Thread is back, Did PCGS maintain the Brown Pedigree?
<< <i>
<< <i>But as I said earlier, the marketability is better in the PCGS holder. I don't like it but that's the way it is now. >>
I agree with you, but with emphasis on your word 'now'. Unless you are planning to sell it now, then I'd have left it as is (though I don't believe you asked my opinion!). >>
With this economy as it is, although I have no intention of selling anytime soon, that could change in a heartbeat. ( glad to have your opinion)
<< <i>Thread is back, Did PCGS maintain the Brown Pedigree? >>
I don't care if the thread dies I just don't like killing my own
<< <i>
<< <i>Thread is back, Did PCGS maintain the Brown Pedigree? >>
I don't care if the thread dies I just don't like killing my own
Not boring in the least and since you do know it's history just jot it down and include it when/if you ever sell it.
Oh and if you don't post again you won't be the last one.
<< <i>
<< <i>I also feel that coins such as this in the old NGC Fattie holders with the Pedigree, Brown/TomB, would have maintained it's value and maybe done better than the coin now in a PCGS 40 holder. True collectors would have purchased this coin from you in the future for your ask price in the NGC holder. >>
LeeG, fair enough, I agree value would have been maintained. But as I said earlier, the marketability is better in the PCGS holder. I don't like it but that's the way it is now.
And I know this for a fact considering when I purchased the coin. I believe in this market if I decided to sell next week, it would sell much faster than in the NGC holder.
I don't like this way of thought but this seems to be the norm these days. Oh, BTW, it had the "Brown" pedigree on it, no "TomB" pedigree. I see the new thing these days is if someone owned a coin before, even a dealer this board automatically gives a "pedigree" to it.
Edit to add, now I went and killed the thread again.
Totally understand your position and reasoning.