The "How much Gold is in Fort Knox" poll.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
Simple question: What percentage of U.S. money do you think is actually backed by physical Gold in Fort Knox??
Al H.
Al H.
0
Comments
<< <i>Simple question: What percentage of U.S. money do you think is actually backed by physical Gold in Fort Knox??
Al H. >>
Money isnt "backed" by gold at all anymore Al. Hasnt been since the Nixon administration.
<< <i>
<< <i>Simple question: What percentage of U.S. money do you think is actually backed by physical Gold in Fort Knox??
Al H. >>
Money isnt "backed" by gold at all anymore Al. Hasnt been since the Nixon administration. >>
I don't even think that's correct.
Gold certificates were backed by gold, none since that.
And I don't believe any would still be traded for gold any longer.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
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Using the most conservative value of just circulating FRN's held in US hands, that's about 1/3 of the $600-$750 BILL. held world wide give or take. Assuming all 264,000,000 oz (8133 tons) of the reported gold is still US owned, that would leave us with around $900-$1000/oz. Unfortunately this doesn't cover the 2/3 of the currency held abroad, or any other US debts. It assumes we own all 264 MILL ounces.
A better estimate might be that 30-50% of the US gold is leased or sold to other nations (80-130 MILL oz). Considering the extent that gold was probably managed by central banks over the past 15 years
it makes sense that 30-50% of CB inventories were depleted from the original 31,000 tones. If the US gave up 3000-4000 tons over the last 2 decades it would seem quite believable imo.
To answer the original question, all of the money "is symbolically backed" by the gold. It's just a question of what value per oz does that gold have when it is applied to the various methods of money supply. Imo maybe only 30-50% of the original gold held in Fort Knox is still owned by the US.
roadrunner
I thought all the gold in Fort Knox is US owned, there's another bigger gold depository at the Federal Reserve Bank in Manhattan where mostly foreign gold deposits are held.
wiki gold depository
Ft Knox also holds several specimens of Sacagawea Dollar coins made out of 22kt (91.6% pure) gold from blanks that were used to strike the $25 half-ounce American Gold Eagle bullion pieces. The 1933 Double Eagle was also a temporary resident after transfer from 7 World Trade Center in July 2001, until its sale in July 2002 for $7.59 million. Sometime in 2004, 10 additional allegedly stolen 1933 Double Eagles were transported to Fort Knox for safekeeping.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
We hold gold, but it does not back our currency, as stated by pretty much everyone who posted before me.
I am assuming Keets has some alterior motive for this poll?
<< <i>ZERO %. Any gold at Fort knox is actually owned
by other nations. >>
I thought we held other countries gold at the NY Fed.
Keets would not ask a question like that without a followup.
Hey, I gave a 'zero' option in my PCGS holder poll....what say you, Keets???
It can't be redeemed for silver or gold, only for another 20 units of debt, aka FRN.
You could argue that it's back by paper and ink though
I believe it costs 3 or 4 cents to produce any FRN, correct me if I'm wrong.
The whole thing is an epic lie, it's not Ferderal, there is no reserve of PM's, and a note is proof of debt, an IOU.
RR if there is 264,000,000 oz. of gold, and roughly 300,000,000 Americans, thats not even an ounce of gold per person.
Go RedSox,
Scott
By contrast, the money supply is much larger. M1 is about $1.6 trillion (cash, currency, and demand deposits such as checking accounts), while M2 is about $8.3 trillion (also includes things like savings accounts, money market funds, certificates of deposit).
So the gold is less than 20% of M1, and much less than 10% of M2.
Of course, our fiat currency, the dollar, is represented only by "Federal Reserve Notes." These are not exchangeable for gold, nor are they directly backed by gold, but they are theoretically backed by the assets of the U.S. Government, which does include the aforementioned gold.
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
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> No gold is kept in Fort Knox. However, the U.S. Bullion Depository is near Fort Knox, KY, and is often called "Fort Knox"(somewhat erroneously)
Sunnywood,
You know your stuff! It's almost as if you're from Kentucky
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<< <i>> No gold is kept in Fort Knox. However, the U.S. Bullion Depository is near Fort Knox, KY, and is often called "Fort Knox"(somewhat erroneously)
Sunnywood,
You know your stuff! It's almost as if you're from Kentucky
The Depository is within Ft. Knox and sits on the top of a hill without any vegitation surronding it other than grass for security reasons. Think of them as being a tenant of Ft. Knox.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The United States Bullion Depository Fort Knox, Kentucky
Amount of present gold holdings: 147.3 million ounces.
The only gold removed has been very small quantities used to test the purity of gold during regularly scheduled audits. Except for these samples, no gold has been transferred to or from the Depository for many years.
The gold is held as an asset of the United States at book value of $42.22 per ounce.
The Depository opened in 1937; the first gold was moved to the depository in January that year.
Highest gold holdings this century: 649.6 million ounces (December 31, 1941).
Size of a standard gold bar: 7 inches x 3 and 5/8 inches x 1 and 3/4 inches.
Weight of a standard gold bar: approximately 400 ounces or 27.5 pounds.
Construction of the depository:
Building materials used included 16,000 cubic feet of granite, 4,200 cubic yards of concrete, 750 tons of reinforcing steel, and 670 tons of structural steel.
The cost of construction was $560,000 and the building was completed in December 1936.
In the past, the Depository has stored the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, the Articles of Confederation, Lincoln's Gettysburg address, three volumes of the Gutenberg Bible, and Lincoln's second inaugural address.
In addition to gold bullion, the Mint has stored valuable items for other government agencies. The Magna Carta was once stored there. The crown, sword, scepter, orb, and cape of St. Stephen, King of Hungary also were stored at the Depository, before being returned to the government of Hungary in 1978.
The Depository is a classified facility. No visitors are permitted, and no exceptions are made.
link to text
<< <i>Here is the fact sheet from the usmint.gov
The United States Bullion Depository Fort Knox, Kentucky
Amount of present gold holdings: 147.3 million ounces.
The only gold removed has been very small quantities used to test the purity of gold during regularly scheduled audits. Except for these samples, no gold has been transferred to or from the Depository for many years.
The gold is held as an asset of the United States at book value of $42.22 per ounce.
The Depository opened in 1937; the first gold was moved to the depository in January that year.
Highest gold holdings this century: 649.6 million ounces (December 31, 1941).
Size of a standard gold bar: 7 inches x 3 and 5/8 inches x 1 and 3/4 inches.
Weight of a standard gold bar: approximately 400 ounces or 27.5 pounds.
Construction of the depository:
Building materials used included 16,000 cubic feet of granite, 4,200 cubic yards of concrete, 750 tons of reinforcing steel, and 670 tons of structural steel.
The cost of construction was $560,000 and the building was completed in December 1936.
In the past, the Depository has stored the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, the Articles of Confederation, Lincoln's Gettysburg address, three volumes of the Gutenberg Bible, and Lincoln's second inaugural address.
In addition to gold bullion, the Mint has stored valuable items for other government agencies. The Magna Carta was once stored there. The crown, sword, scepter, orb, and cape of St. Stephen, King of Hungary also were stored at the Depository, before being returned to the government of Hungary in 1978.
The Depository is a classified facility. No visitors are permitted, and no exceptions are made.
link to text >>
Any chance they'd sell me one of the 300,000+ bars they hold at $42/oz? That would work out to $16,800. Hell, i'd even pay for the shipping AND add 3% for paypal!
> The Depository is within Ft. Knox and sits on the top of a hill without any vegitation surronding it other than grass for security reasons. Think of them as being a tenant of Ft. Knox.
It's visible from the road. I've seen the building several times. Fort Knox helps guard the place. The bullion depository is on the grounds of the base, which covers 109,000-acres.
Assuming all the gold that's supposed to be there really is since the
currency is back by the full faith etc then 150 billion in gold is only 1%
of the current national debt.
In other words gold would have to be $150,000 per ounce for our green-
backs to be fully backed.
We'd still be running a big deficit though.
<< <i>so, Sam, without getting into a discussion about whether or not the budget was balanced back in the late 1990's, your analysis means what?? >>
Who knows?
If we were still on a gold standard then gold would have to be worth a lot more
or there would be no confidence in the currency. Unless there's a panic or a col-
lapse of some other nature we'll almost certainly never go back to any gold stan-
dard and it would just be an interim measure even then.
Significantly higher gold prices are not necessarily unjustified but don't look for
extremely high prices unless a couple years of high inflation occurs first.
this is the part of your reply that i was aiming at, so please extrapolate for me(us).
if the National Debt is close to -ZERO- then $150 Billion in Gold..................................
<< <i>then 150 billion in gold is only 1% of the current national debt.
this is the part of your reply that i was aiming at, so please extrapolate for me(us).
if the National Debt is close to -ZERO- then $150 Billion in Gold.................................. >>
I simply mean that for currency to have value there has to be an ability
to tax by the issuer and/ or it must be solvent. To be solvent the liabil-
ities should not greatly exceed the assets.
There is some question that the government has the ability to raise e-
nough taxes to satisfy the demands of lenders so there probably be at
least some part of the difference made up in currency devaluation. This
was equivalient to increasing the gold price but with fiat currency there
is not a one to one correlation.
I would look for higher taxes, weaker currency, and higher gold prices.
Of course higher taxes are dependent on the ability of the people to pay
them.
There are lots of ways to look at what the price of gold "should be" in
different scenarios. If there were no debt then the price of gold would
still have to be high enough to function as money. You can't have mil-
lions changing hands if the money doesn't physically exist. Gold would
probably have to be in the $5000 range just to satisfy this demand if
we were on the gold standard.
Check out:
Eros asteroid has a lot of gold
Love to hear those facts!!!!!
<< <i>very good duck and weave, can you answer the question or fill in the blank?? >>
Ooh. OOh... I KNOW!!!
<< <i>then 150 billion in gold is only 1% of the current national debt.
this is the part of your reply that i was aiming at, so please extrapolate for me(us).
if the National Debt is close to -ZERO- then $150 Billion in Gold.................................. >>
The answer is: DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR CODE 0xC000008E
(Honestly, i'm curious as to where you are going, but can't really guess where that is yet. Food for thought though. I don't see why the currency we use nationally needs backing by gold. In fact, that is quite a restriction on the money supply and can be a problem when you produce lots of stuff that needs to be bought with that money.)
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
i certainly enjoy owning a home within half-a-mile of 10% of the worlds fresh water supply. no amount of Gold from the Chinese will get them a drop!!!
Don't we already do this with FRN's? There aren't enough scarce FRNS in existence to pay off depositors and creditors if all of them instantly wanted to be paid off. Maybe 1-10% of depositors could be accomodated. In essence we have a system of $13 TRILL in GDP and multiples of that in credit yet < $1 TRILL in notes circulating in the United States. Obviously not enough money physically exists to handle a short term crisis....and something we will soon learn more about. The printing presses can't run fast enough or long enough to put a dent in this deficit unless denominations such as $1,000 or $10,000 are brought back into existence. One could say the physical $1 FRN note should be worth much more than $1 as they are quite scarce. Yet the same entry on a computer should be worth far less than $1.
roadrunner