Did gold coins ever see much use in day to day commerce?

SanctionII

If so, what time period and waht part of the country did this take place in?

I suspect that larger denomination gold coins [half eagles, eagles and double eagles] did not see widespread use in circulation, instead being used more for banking transactions; I suspect the smaller denominations [dollars and quarter eagles] saw more use in circulation; and I suspect that gold coins were more common in circulation out west than in the eastern part of the country.

What say you?

rld14

I have read that gold dollars, in the period leading up to the Morgans being released, saw pretty widespread circulation in much of the country. Again, I would think that ti depended on where in the country, Silver Dollars never saw widespread use in the northeast but out west and in the south they saw extensive use in commerce.

ambro51

Gold dollars found a handy use in that they could be sent through the mail in a letter.
My most circulated gold dollar is an 1860 S, in F-VF, so that spent many years in use.

notlogical

It's thread like this that make me realize how much I'm going to miss RWB.

ProofArtworkonCircs

Gold saw much use in California even into the 20th century. It also saw much use in England since the smallest bill was 5 pounds or about 25 dollars until WW I.

It saw much use by proxy in the rest of the USA by the use of gold certificates.

Gold dollars were popular when first minted as silver was worth too much at that time to circulate.

OnlyGoldIsMoney

Based on the examples I have, gold coins seemed to circulate much more extensively in the western states. This 1866-S $2.50 is a PCGS F12 and saw some hard use. Despite a mintage of 38,960 PCGS has graded just three 1866-S $2.50's in mint state (two 61's and one 62).

DaveG

Basically, you have three major periods for gold coins: 1) up to 1834, 2) 1834 to the Civil War and 3) after the Civil War.

Very, Very little gold circulated before 1834, because it was worth more as bullion than it was as money. From 1834 until the Civil War (and the introduction of Federal currency), the most common uses for gold coins was for travellers and to pay import duties. (California was different - the people there didn't use currency and preferred to use gold coins at least up to WWI - and probably later.)

There wasn't all that much money in circulation in the 19th century and the most common form of money was banknotes issued by local banks. Banknotes worked fine in the major Eastern cities, but there were many, many fake, counterfeit and worthless banknotes in circulation outside of the major Eastern cities. Merchants knew this and distrusted banknotes from distant banks. So, if you wanted to travel from, say Buffalo to California in 1849, you would get gold coins from the bank to pay your travel expenses.

Importers also had to pay their import duties in gold coins.

From the Civil War until 1879, the Greenback wasn't convertible into gold at face value, so again, little gold circulated outside the West.

After 1879, the Greenback was (mostly) freely convertible, so most gold coins stayed in bank vaults.

This is a very brief description. If you're interested in learning more, I recommend my chapter (How Gold Coins Circulated in 19th Century America) in Doug Winter's Gold Coins of the New Orleans Mint (2nd edition) or chapters 3 and 4 in Dave Bowers' book on the Brother Jonathan.

sinin1

how many days did a typical worker have to work to earn $1 gold piece



I think gold was limited to the minority


similar to if $1000 and $10,000 bills were still in use today

Coinosaurus

For the 19th century, a dollar a day can be used as a nominal figure for a common laborer.

In 1792 the cheapest labor in the US mint was paid about $1.20 a day.

In the 1930s my grandfather worked as a field hand for $1.00 a day.

ProofArtworkonCircs

In 1898 my father was happy to work for 10 cents an hour. This varied from drafting plans for the new school to helping a neighbor hay.
Playing for a Saturday night dance yielded big money, like 3 whole dollars.

tjkillian

A bricklayer on the Erie canal made $2.50 per day. A soldier in the army during the Civil War (Southerner or Yankee) was paid $11 per month, for a private.

It cost $500 to take a ship from New York to San Francisco in 1850.

FredF

<< <i>It cost $500 to take a ship from New York to San Francisco in 1850. >>



So much for inflation. You can get an American Airlines or JetBlue flight from JFK to SFO for an August 2009 departure for $237. That's less than half the cost of that shipboard journey and it takes you about 5 hours instead of taking weeks. Alot safer as well.

Another way to look at it - in 1850 it took 25 double eagles to pay for that journey. In 2009 you could get it for a circulated XF-AU common date quarter eagle.

-Fred

CaptHenway

There is so much circulated gold around that obviously it did circulate. Those couldn't all be pocket pieces.

That said, there were different economic classes that either did or did not use gold. My grandmother was born in 1890, and when she stopped going to high school got a job as a telephone company switchboard in far northern Michigan.

When she came to live with us around 1968, she found out that I collected coins. This jogged her memory, and she told us that one Christmas the telephone company put a $2-1/2 gold piece in her pay envelope. I asked her if she kept it, and she said no, that she only made $2-1/2 per week, and that receiving the same amount in gold was intended to be a "Christmas bonus" of some sort.

She just took it home and gave it to her mother, like she did with her pay every other week, and got back the 50 cents she was allowed to keep for herself.

TD

CaptHenway

<< <i>A bricklayer on the Erie canal made $2.50 per day. A soldier in the army during the Civil War (Southerner or Yankee) was paid $11 per month, for a private.

It cost $500 to take a ship from New York to San Francisco in 1850. >>



Why would the canal need bricklayers?
Just curious.
TD

sumnom

<< <i>

<< <i>It cost $500 to take a ship from New York to San Francisco in 1850. >>



So much for inflation. You can get an American Airlines or JetBlue flight from JFK to SFO for an August 2009 departure for $237. That's less than half the cost of that shipboard journey and it takes you about 5 hours instead of taking weeks. Alot safer as well.

Another way to look at it - in 1850 it took 25 double eagles to pay for that journey. In 2009 you could get it for a circulated XF-AU common date quarter eagle.

-Fred >>



But how much does it cost now to sail from New York, around The Horn, and then up to San Francisco? I'll bet it's more than $500.

SirAnthonyAC

Yes, don't forget that gold was $19.39 an ounce in 1800... so a Draped Bust $10 gold piece (1795-1804 a half an ounce of gold) was less than the average person's weekly salary (which was $16 per week)

Considering those relative numbers, a Draped Bust $5 (1795-1807) would be traded around. The richer folks would certainly pay with $5 and $10 gold pieces.

cladking

<< <i>Gold saw much use in California even into the 20th century. It also saw much use in England since the smallest bill was 5 pounds or about 25 dollars until WW I.

It saw much use by proxy in the rest of the USA by the use of gold certificates.

Gold dollars were popular when first minted as silver was worth too much at that time to circulate. >>



British gold from the 16th and 17th centuries probably saw the greatest and
most universal circulation. Many of these coins had to be withdrawn and re-
coined over and over because of weight loss caused by excessive wear. Bri-
tish silver from a little later also saw such extensive wear but this isn't as un-
usual for silver coin.

Most gold coin in history saw much lighter circulation and tended to sit in hoards
while silver and copper circulated. This was especially true in the US though
early issues are often seen more heavily worn as well as some small denomina-
tions.

MsMorrisine

I wonder if there are any old numismatics books surviving from various time periods which could be consulted.... could add a whole new dimension to the discussion.

and for all the hard times people give him, this one would seem like an interesting historical question for Longacre to look into. (but maybe I don't know longacre)

fc

<< <i>

<< <i>A bricklayer on the Erie canal made $2.50 per day. A soldier in the army during the Civil War (Southerner or Yankee) was paid $11 per month, for a private.

It cost $500 to take a ship from New York to San Francisco in 1850. >>



Why would the canal need bricklayers?
Just curious.
TD >>



the erie canal had many locks.
see pics below for a general idea.

fc

as others stated, in the far west gold was widely used as seen by
this example. so widely used not very many exist anymore
for certain dates. for some dates no mint state examples exist.

CaptHenway

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>A bricklayer on the Erie canal made $2.50 per day. A soldier in the army during the Civil War (Southerner or Yankee) was paid $11 per month, for a private.

It cost $500 to take a ship from New York to San Francisco in 1850. >>



Why would the canal need bricklayers?
Just curious.
TD >>



the erie canal had many locks.
see pics below for a general idea. >>



Ah, stonecutters and masons!
Gotcha!
TD

Elcontador

I would guess that gold coins circulated freely during the early part of the 20th century. The old notes were much larger than the ones which circulate now and I imagine they were awkward to carry. My paternal grandmother saved a bunch of gold coins when they were ordered to be given to the Government in 1933. We still have them.

fc

i just had a thought. i visit antique stores and for some odd reason
i am always taking second and third looks at coin banks. many many
banks had promotion/gift coin banks that allowed you to save coins in
each denomination. the older banks which are WWI era have a slot
for half eagles along with the rest. this means to me that they were
circulating enough for coin bank manufacturers to include a slot even
up to the 1910-1920s.

garsmith

I have an AU50 gold dollar and a AU58 gold dollar these had to have seen at least a little use.

1946Hamm

I have a national cash register (circa 1907) that has a gold coin slot in one of the cash drawer compartments that locks.


Back when my father (born 1904) was getting ready to get married (1929) he saved 20 $20 dollar gold pieces he got from the bank to start the marriage with. He told me he spent them for things after he and mom got married. So gold did circulate here in Indiana up until the time it was recalled in 1933. Many older folks around here have $2 1/2 and $5 dollar gold coins saved from years back that were given as gifts for christmas and birthdays.

2manycoins2fewfunds

<< <i>For the 19th century, a dollar a day can be used as a nominal figure for a common laborer.

In 1792 the cheapest labor in the US mint was paid about $1.20 a day.

In the 1930s my grandfather worked as a field hand for $1.00 a day. >>



I have my grandfathers ledger from 1916.
At that time in NW North Carolina mountains it was $0.16/hr

2manycoins2fewfunds

<< <i>

<< <i>It cost $500 to take a ship from New York to San Francisco in 1850. >>



So much for inflation. You can get an American Airlines or JetBlue flight from JFK to SFO for an August 2009 departure for $237. That's less than half the cost of that shipboard journey and it takes you about 5 hours instead of taking weeks. Alot safer as well.

Another way to look at it - in 1850 it took 25 double eagles to pay for that journey. In 2009 you could get it for a circulated XF-AU common date quarter eagle.

-Fred >>



Yeah but you got a lot more meals if you went by ship!