<< <i>What did the solution look like after you used the product? >>
Clear with some small specs of what appeared to be verdigris that had come off.
<< Exactly how long did you soak the coin per side? >>
One hour total time.
<< I am unfamiliar with this coin, what is the metallic composition? >>
I'm unfamiliar with the composition myself. I do believe they were the same as the Indian cents of the time, but not sure. >>
Thank you for the response. In my haste, I failed to read your post (or any of them). I've now taken the time to read everything.
If you had "specks" in the solution after soaking, that was not verdigris. VERDI-GONE™ reacts fully with verdigris bringing it into solution. I also read that you had a "wet sticky substance" on the surface. What you describe is characteristic of a surface colorant or polar organic material that was adhered to the surface. The water in VERDI-GONE™ likely caused the material to gel, the gel was then rinsed away with water.
Before attempting conservation using VERDI-GONE™ I generally recommend people first soak the coin in distilled water and then a non-polar organic solvent (such as xylenes). Quite often organic residues are mistaken for verdigris and VERDI-GONE™ will not remove such residues. Also, it is possible that the verdigris may be covered with an organic layer (such as oils collectors use) and that would severely reduce the effectiveness of VERDI-GONE™.
Coin conservation is tricky. I always recommend that collectors try traditional methods such as soaking in distilled water before resorting to VERDI-GONE™ or other chemical products. >>
<< <i>Before attempting conservation using VERDI-GONE™ I generally recommend people first soak the coin in distilled water and then a non-polar organic solvent (such as xylenes). Quite often organic residues are mistaken for verdigris and VERDI-GONE™ will not remove such residues. Also, it is possible that the verdigris may be covered with an organic layer (such as oils collectors use) and that would severely reduce the effectiveness of VERDI-GONE™. >>
I don't see these instructions on your instruction sheet.....
<< <i>Wow! A guy goes to bed and wakes up to this and lots of threatening PM's from Arizona Jack!
The pictures were taken outside on the hood of my car laying on white paper. The first set was at about 4:20 PM. The second set was taken at about 8:15 PM and the light was fading. Pics are taken on my Sony DSC-S85 with white balance set at "one push." In Photoshop, all I did was click on "auto levels" for each picture. I did, of course, resize the pics. I am not and have never claimed to be a good photographer. adamlaneushas given me some guidance from time to time on how to correct my picture problems, but all he has accomplished is to confuse me more.
I'll be willing to send the Lincoln in question to him to post his pics if he is willing.
There is and never was anything malicious about my posts. I can tell you that there are pink areas on the coin where debris has come off. >>
Fair is fair. Im not a bad guy and your not either then. Bad pics.
ArizonaJack, what is(are) the active ingredient(s) in this product? Are you willing to state what known compounds that damage copper surfaces are not in this product?
<< <i>Wow! A guy goes to bed and wakes up to this and lots of threatening PM's from Arizona Jack!
The pictures were taken outside on the hood of my car laying on white paper. The first set was at about 4:20 PM. The second set was taken at about 8:15 PM and the light was fading. Pics are taken on my Sony DSC-S85 with white balance set at "one push." In Photoshop, all I did was click on "auto levels" for each picture. I did, of course, resize the pics. I am not and have never claimed to be a good photographer. adamlaneushas given me some guidance from time to time on how to correct my picture problems, but all he has accomplished is to confuse me more.
I'll be willing to send the Lincoln in question to him to post his pics if he is willing.
There is and never was anything malicious about my posts. I can tell you that there are pink areas on the coin where debris has come off. >>
Fair is fair. Im not a bad guy and your not either then. Bad pics. >>
Yes, fair is fair. I attempted to show what I know to be bad results of a product used as per the "instruction sheet." You proceeded to jump my bones via PM's and came back and apologised. I went as far as to do another coin and got the same results while following the "instruction sheet." Again, PM's from you insinuating a lawsuit.
The chemist who made the stuff then had the gall to come on here and give different instructions for it's use. Why aren't they on the instruction sheet that you send with the product??
I just put six Lincolns in the mail to a professional coin photographer. When he finishes the photos of "before", they will come back to me to be done as per the instruction sheet. Then they go back to him for "after" photos. The results will be posted on the coin forum of the OFR.
Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. You then do it again with another coin and post doctored photos as the after photos, knowing full well that those results were not from the Verdigone. You posted a purple Lincoln knowing full well it was NOT purple, and blamed it on the Verdigone.
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. You then do it again with another coin and post doctored photos as the after photos, knowing full well that those results were not from the Verdigone. You posted a purple Lincoln knowing full well it was NOT purple, and blamed it on the Verdigone.
Sorry bud, your credibility on this is shot. >>
When I read the OP I didn't see any statement from the author stating whether the results were good or bad.
Laying aside the dispute...the uncontroverted fact here is that the chemist/inventor of the product was indeed telling KS to do things that aren't even alluded to in the pictured instruction sheet. If he "generally" or "always" recommends doing other things prior to using this cleaner, then seriously...shouldn't this information have been included in the instructions? Not trying to stir up anything here; I think this could be a real problem.
What happens if someone uses this on a relatively high dollar item precisely following the instructions as currently written and has a bad result? The rather flaccid one-line we-aren't-responsible disclaimer at the bottom would be little protection against a bulldog lawyer in my humble opinion.
Just throwing that out there for consideration and/or discussion.
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. >>
See, if this could be proven, then this would largely be a misunderstanding. I certainly think it's possible the coin in the OP may have been cleaned and recolored. And if it were, maybe this stuff removed the artificial color and left the cleaned look. But I don't know how one can make a positive assertion of that.
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. >>
See, if this could be proven, then this would largely be a misunderstanding. I certainly think it's possible the coin in the OP may have been cleaned and recolored. And if it were, maybe this stuff removed the artificial color and left the cleaned look. But I don't know how one can make a positive assertion of that. >>
Ziggy Take a very close look at the before and after pics of the store card......it seem obvious to me this is the case. You canot find much of the damage, dents, scratches etc on the before pics.....
This leads me to believe the coin was doctored, filled, puttied, etc, then recolored with a water soluble agent. I posted " my product did not do that ", Kens reply was " YES it did ". Can you understand the frustration here? Especially on something I put my name on?
Coin #2 the Lincoln, the after pics speak for themselves, they were artifically manipulated images designed to reflect poorly on the product. Amature photographer aside, why post purple pics if the COINS ARE NOT PURPLE IN HAND ? That was the intentional part that reved me up. 1st coin I apologised and started to reflect. Coin #2 just blew it.
I hate to get heated up here, and it can only make me look like a jerk, but c'mon. The results of BOTH after shots do not reflect what the product did, it reflects other things like doctored coins and doctored photos. Thats what got my goat.
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. You then do it again with another coin and post doctored photos as the after photos, knowing full well that those results were not from the Verdigone. You posted a purple Lincoln knowing full well it was NOT purple, and blamed it on the Verdigone.
Sorry bud, your credibility on this is shot. >>
When I read the OP I didn't see any statement from the author stating whether the results were good or bad. >>
Not in the OP, but near the top of page 2:
<< Ksteelheader,
What are your thoughts on the results? I've heard everyone elses. >>
I don't like the results.
I originally did not state my view because I didn't want to have any influence on what anyone else thought.
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. You then do it again with another coin and post doctored photos as the after photos, knowing full well that those results were not from the Verdigone. You posted a purple Lincoln knowing full well it was NOT purple, and blamed it on the Verdigone.
Sorry bud, your credibility on this is shot. >>
I guess we'll see when I get professional photos of results now, won't we??
What about the instruction sheet not having the chemists' recommendations he made here on it??
"I don't like the results. I originally did not state my view because I didn't want to have any influence on what anyone else thought."
This is hardly the statement of someone who merely wants to disparage this product for no good reason, IMO. He presented his results and withheld his own opinion until asked.
<< <i> What about the instruction sheet not having the chemists' recommendations he made here on it?? >>
I will have him adress this issue. If there is any question, it needs fixed. That is true.
I cannot rely on your pictures or process any more, whether intentional or not, you have blown it. There are others that will post results that are untainted, I'll go with those I think. I hate a P'ing match, so no more of that.
<< <i> What about the instruction sheet not having the chemists' recommendations he made here on it?? >>
I will have him adress this issue. If there is any question, it needs fixed. That is true.
I cannot rely on your pictures or process any more, whether intentional or not, you have blown it. There are others that will post results that are untainted, I'll go with those I think. I hate a P'ing match, so no more of that. >>
My process is exactly like your instruction sheet says to do. You have how many bottles of this sold with what you admit to be an instruction sheet that needs "fixed''? This alone should be embarrasing as hell.
<< <i> What about the instruction sheet not having the chemists' recommendations he made here on it?? >>
I will have him adress this issue. If there is any question, it needs fixed. That is true.
I cannot rely on your pictures or process any more, whether intentional or not, you have blown it. There are others that will post results that are untainted, I'll go with those I think. I hate a P'ing match, so no more of that. >>
My process is exactly like your instruction sheet says to do. You have how many bottles of this sold with what you admit to be an instruction sheet that needs "fixed''? This alone should be embarrasing as hell. >>
Oh I don't know, about 40 bottles untill this thread started, now maybe 55-60...... Not embarrased, I have not 1 complaint. Just repeat orders, but I do promise to look into the instruction sheet.
<< <i> What about the instruction sheet not having the chemists' recommendations he made here on it?? >>
I will have him adress this issue. If there is any question, it needs fixed. That is true.
I cannot rely on your pictures or process any more, whether intentional or not, you have blown it. There are others that will post results that are untainted, I'll go with those I think. I hate a P'ing match, so no more of that. >>
My process is exactly like your instruction sheet says to do. You have how many bottles of this sold with what you admit to be an instruction sheet that needs "fixed''? This alone should be embarrasing as hell. >>
Oh I don't know, about 40 bottles untill this thread started, now maybe 55-60...... Not embarrased, I have not 1 complaint. Just repeat orders, but I do promise to look into the instruction sheet. >>
Good idea!
How 'bout posting an MSDS for those of us that can properly read one??
I do not know how to post a MSDS, if I email you one, will you post it? jack@mesacoin.com will get SOMEONE a MSDS that is in PDF format, I have zero problems posting this publicy, go ahead.
<< <i>I do not know how to post a MSDS, if I email you one, will you post it? jack@mesacoin.com will get SOMEONE a MSDS that is in PDF format, I have zero problems posting this publicy, go ahead. >>
<< <i>a non-polar organic solvent (such as xylenes
where can I get some of this? or will acetone be equivalent? >>
Non-Polar Solvents Non-polar solvents are compounds that have low dielecrtic constants and are not miscible with water. Examples include benzene (C6H6), carbon tetrachloride (CCl4), and diethyl ether ( CH3CH2OCH2CH3).
I emailed " Pheh" a PDF of this MSDS. Lets hope he can get it posted here. This is getting old, and some good people are in-fighting, I do not think that was the purpose of this thread, a firestorm or P-ing match.
<< <i>Now I ain't been married for about ten years and my long distant, long term relationship of 7 years ended late 2007, but I know one thing about chemistry: There is no MSDS (material safety data sheet) on PMS and you guys in chemistry are beginning to make me think PMS is way less volatile than testosterone.
You brothers know me. I'll likely edit this out so I don't offend any lawyers. >>
Let's not take this to Congress fellas. And if the EPA gets involved, I'd say the thread is ANTI AMERICAN at the onset.
In reality, verdigris happens. The attempt to conserve is not bad. Results vary. Now I don't know what else to say except that coins ain't worth the trouble.
I think we all need to take a deep breath. I'm certainly no photographer either, so I can see where people have fits trying to make white balance identical for each image. I don't believe there was an intent to deceive on anyones' part. That being said, once you put a product out the door, it's out of your control and results may vary... caveat emptor!!
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
I have no horse in this race either. I am merely a happy user of Verdi-Gone (tm) over the past 6+ months.
I took two of these pics last night. The first was taken before the coin had been touched. The second was after a 90 minute soak in undiluted, virgin Verdi-Gone (tm). The third I took tonight after an 18 soak. The coin was rinsed in cool tap water and patted dry after each soak. I have only used Verdi-Gone (tm) on early Lincolns (bronze) and have never had any problems with the 200+ coins I have conserved.
<< <i>Yes, fair is fair. I attempted to show what I know to be bad results of a product used as per the "instruction sheet." You proceeded to jump my bones via PM's and came back and apologised. I went as far as to do another coin and got the same results while following the "instruction sheet." Again, PM's from you insinuating a lawsuit.
The chemist who made the stuff then had the gall to come on here and give different instructions for it's use. Why aren't they on the instruction sheet that you send with the product?? >>
OOOOoooo threatening litigation -- that will win over more customers.
<< <i>Wow! A guy goes to bed and wakes up to this and lots of threatening PM's from Arizona Jack!
The pictures were taken outside on the hood of my car laying on white paper. The first set was at about 4:20 PM. The second set was taken at about 8:15 PM and the light was fading. Pics are taken on my Sony DSC-S85 with white balance set at "one push." In Photoshop, all I did was click on "auto levels" for each picture. I did, of course, resize the pics. I am not and have never claimed to be a good photographer. adamlaneushas given me some guidance from time to time on how to correct my picture problems, but all he has accomplished is to confuse me more.
I'll be willing to send the Lincoln in question to him to post his pics if he is willing.
There is and never was anything malicious about my posts. I can tell you that there are pink areas on the coin where debris has come off. >>
You manipulated the pictures, didn't tell anyone, and claim the coin looks exactly like the image (by not telling the whole truth)
Slanderous posts. I would be taking immediate legal action if I was the maker of this product. No doubt in the f***ing world.
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. You then do it again with another coin and post doctored photos as the after photos, knowing full well that those results were not from the Verdigone. You posted a purple Lincoln knowing full well it was NOT purple, and blamed it on the Verdigone.
Sorry bud, your credibility on this is shot. >>
When I read the OP I didn't see any statement from the author stating whether the results were good or bad. >>
LOL !! so that makes it okay ? wow, the things we could get away with.
Also, I would say the pictures are NOT "just auto levels", can someone else with Photoshop confirm this ? Auto levels does not do that. It does not increase blue for no good reason. Look at the facts not the sneaky way the altered pictures were presented.
Can I remind you that when you adjust a picture, you notice it going from okay to bright blue and click UNDO. Anyone with a reasonable IQ does this. Look at the one with the blue lowered. That is all that was adjusted, coin looks great.
Oh boy, what a long stinkin thread ......... I read most of it
I am a new customer of AzJack's ..... I ordered a bottle yesterday and was apparently shipped to me today ......
WHY ?
well, it's simple really ......... it obviously works under some or most conditions when practiced on cheap coins with varying solutions etc
WHY ELSE would so many other people have had good results with it, AND WHY else would AZJACK and the chemist defend it with so much passion ........ come on, use you brain, if the copper really turned pink or blue, they couldn't deny it and hold there heads up ...... simple logic Sherlocks, it works as intended ....... not to say some copper coins are not suitable for it
Excuse the spelling, I'm pooped after reading so much of the thread
<< <i>Thread is definitely turning weird, Ken has no reason nor gains any benefit by altering photos. he just happened to give the results of trying out a recommended product. Ridiculous to shoot the messenger. I dislike personal attacks like the one that is occurring against a member that is going out of his way to try something that was advertised here. >>
I believe it is irresponsible behavior to give a review of a product and show as examples photos taken with 2 different settings.
It either is simply poor judgment or possible malice with the intention to discredit a product. Looking at the before and after pictures in the top right corner you can see the 2 different settings. In the after photo on the right the blue level and contrast is significantly different.
Given the relationship the OP has with the forum member who represents this product it makes one consider whether or that there is malicious intent involved.
<< <i> Given the relationship the OP has with the forum member who represents this product it makes one consider whether or that there is malicious intent involved. >>
My relationship is merely that I bought what appears to be a defective product.
Amigo
<< <i>Oh boy, what a long stinkin thread ......... I read most of it
I am a new customer of AzJack's ..... I ordered a bottle yesterday and was apparently shipped to me today ......
WHY ?
well, it's simple really ......... it obviously works under some or most conditions when practiced on cheap coins with varying solutions etc
WHY ELSE would so many other people have had good results with it, AND WHY else would AZJACK and the chemist defend it with so much passion ........ come on, use you brain, if the copper really turned pink or blue, they couldn't deny it and hold there heads up ...... simple logic Sherlocks, it works as intended ....... not to say some copper coins are not suitable for it >>
<< <i>well, it's simple really ......... it obviously works under some or most conditions when practiced on cheap coins with varying solutions etc >>
So, which of these four variables are you gonna use? Some conditions, most conditions, cheap coin, or varying solutions?
<< <i>AND WHY else would AZJACK and the chemist defend it with so much passion >>
VERDICHEMIST New Member
Posts: 8 Joined: Apr 2009
Eight posts. All of which were either to promote or defend the product. He stands to lose money if the product proves defective.
ArizonaJack MesaCoin.com VERDI-GONE.com Exclusive seller of the product. He stands to lose money if the product proves defective.
<< <i>come on, use you brain, if the copper really turned pink or blue, they couldn't deny it and hold there heads up ...... simple logic Sherlocks, it works as intended >>
Sorry Sherlock, but read the portion of the instruction sheet provided here.
<< <i>Thread is definitely turning weird, Ken has no reason nor gains any benefit by altering photos. he just happened to give the results of trying out a recommended product. Ridiculous to shoot the messenger. I dislike personal attacks like the one that is occurring against a member that is going out of his way to try something that was advertised here. >>
I believe it is irresponsible behavior to give a review of a product and show as examples photos taken with 2 different settings.
It either is simply poor judgment or possible malice with the intention to discredit a product. Looking at the before and after pictures in the top right corner you can see the 2 different settings. In the after photo on the right the blue level and contrast is significantly different.
Given the relationship the OP has with the forum member who represents this product it makes one consider whether or that there is malicious intent involved.
>>
DING DING DING..... I believe you are correct and I totally agree with you. It makes you wonder that after he used this product on his storecard which probably wasn't a cheap token that he maliciously started making accusations to try to discredit Arizona Jack and the makers of this product.
Awarded the coveted "You Suck" Award on 22 Oct 2010 for finding a 1942/1 D Dime in silver, and on 7 Feb 2011 Cherrypicking a 1914 MPL Cent on Ebay!
<< <i>Thread is definitely turning weird, Ken has no reason nor gains any benefit by altering photos. he just happened to give the results of trying out a recommended product. Ridiculous to shoot the messenger. I dislike personal attacks like the one that is occurring against a member that is going out of his way to try something that was advertised here. >>
I believe it is irresponsible behavior to give a review of a product and show as examples photos taken with 2 different settings.
It either is simply poor judgment or possible malice with the intention to discredit a product. Looking at the before and after pictures in the top right corner you can see the 2 different settings. In the after photo on the right the blue level and contrast is significantly different.
Given the relationship the OP has with the forum member who represents this product it makes one consider whether or that there is malicious intent involved.
>>
DING DING DING..... I believe you are correct and I totally agree with you. It makes you wonder that after he used this product on his storecard which probably wasn't a cheap token that he maliciously started making accusations to try to discredit Arizona Jack and the makers of this product. >>
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>What did the solution look like after you used the product? >>
Clear with some small specs of what appeared to be verdigris that had come off.
<< Exactly how long did you soak the coin per side? >>
One hour total time.
<< I am unfamiliar with this coin, what is the metallic composition? >>
I'm unfamiliar with the composition myself. I do believe they were the same as the Indian cents of the time, but not sure.
>>
Thank you for the response. In my haste, I failed to read your post (or any of them). I've now taken the time to read everything.
If you had "specks" in the solution after soaking, that was not verdigris. VERDI-GONE™ reacts fully with verdigris bringing it into solution. I also read that you had a "wet sticky substance" on the surface. What you describe is characteristic of a surface colorant or polar organic material that was adhered to the surface. The water in VERDI-GONE™ likely caused the material to gel, the gel was then rinsed away with water.
Before attempting conservation using VERDI-GONE™ I generally recommend people first soak the coin in distilled water and then a non-polar organic solvent (such as xylenes). Quite often organic residues are mistaken for verdigris and VERDI-GONE™ will not remove such residues. Also, it is possible that the verdigris may be covered with an organic layer (such as oils collectors use) and that would severely reduce the effectiveness of VERDI-GONE™.
Coin conservation is tricky. I always recommend that collectors try traditional methods such as soaking in distilled water before resorting to VERDI-GONE™ or other chemical products. >>
<< <i>Before attempting conservation using VERDI-GONE™ I generally recommend people first soak the coin in distilled water and then a non-polar organic solvent (such as xylenes). Quite often organic residues are mistaken for verdigris and VERDI-GONE™ will not remove such residues. Also, it is possible that the verdigris may be covered with an organic layer (such as oils collectors use) and that would severely reduce the effectiveness of VERDI-GONE™. >>
I don't see these instructions on your instruction sheet.....
<< <i>Wow! A guy goes to bed and wakes up to this and lots of threatening PM's from Arizona Jack!
The pictures were taken outside on the hood of my car laying on white paper. The first set was at about 4:20 PM. The second set was taken at about 8:15 PM and the light was fading. Pics are taken on my Sony DSC-S85 with white balance set at "one push." In Photoshop, all I did was click on "auto levels" for each picture. I did, of course, resize the pics. I am not and have never claimed to be a good photographer. adamlaneushas given me some guidance from time to time on how to correct my picture problems, but all he has accomplished is to confuse me more.
I'll be willing to send the Lincoln in question to him to post his pics if he is willing.
There is and never was anything malicious about my posts. I can tell you that there are pink areas on the coin where debris has come off. >>
Fair is fair. Im not a bad guy and your not either then. Bad pics.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow! A guy goes to bed and wakes up to this and lots of threatening PM's from Arizona Jack!
The pictures were taken outside on the hood of my car laying on white paper. The first set was at about 4:20 PM. The second set was taken at about 8:15 PM and the light was fading. Pics are taken on my Sony DSC-S85 with white balance set at "one push." In Photoshop, all I did was click on "auto levels" for each picture. I did, of course, resize the pics. I am not and have never claimed to be a good photographer. adamlaneushas given me some guidance from time to time on how to correct my picture problems, but all he has accomplished is to confuse me more.
I'll be willing to send the Lincoln in question to him to post his pics if he is willing.
There is and never was anything malicious about my posts. I can tell you that there are pink areas on the coin where debris has come off. >>
Fair is fair. Im not a bad guy and your not either then. Bad pics. >>
Yes, fair is fair. I attempted to show what I know to be bad results of a product used as per the "instruction sheet." You proceeded to jump my bones via PM's and came back and apologised. I went as far as to do another coin and got the same results while following the "instruction sheet." Again, PM's from you insinuating a lawsuit.
The chemist who made the stuff then had the gall to come on here and give different instructions for it's use. Why aren't they on the instruction sheet that you send with the product??
I just put six Lincolns in the mail to a professional coin photographer. When he finishes the photos of "before", they will come back to me to be done as per the instruction sheet. Then they go back to him for "after" photos. The results will be posted on the coin forum of the OFR.
Sorry bud, your credibility on this is shot.
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. You then do it again with another coin and post doctored photos as the after photos, knowing full well that those results were not from the Verdigone. You posted a purple Lincoln knowing full well it was NOT purple, and blamed it on the Verdigone.
Sorry bud, your credibility on this is shot. >>
When I read the OP I didn't see any statement from the author stating whether the results were good or bad.
What happens if someone uses this on a relatively high dollar item precisely following the instructions as currently written and has a bad result? The rather flaccid one-line we-aren't-responsible disclaimer at the bottom would be little protection against a bulldog lawyer in my humble opinion.
Just throwing that out there for consideration and/or discussion.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
What is the pH?
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. >>
See, if this could be proven, then this would largely be a misunderstanding. I certainly think it's possible the coin in the OP may have been cleaned and recolored. And if it were, maybe this stuff removed the artificial color and left the cleaned look. But I don't know how one can make a positive assertion of that.
<< <i>
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. >>
See, if this could be proven, then this would largely be a misunderstanding. I certainly think it's possible the coin in the OP may have been cleaned and recolored. And if it were, maybe this stuff removed the artificial color and left the cleaned look. But I don't know how one can make a positive assertion of that. >>
Ziggy
Take a very close look at the before and after pics of the store card......it seem obvious to me this is the case. You canot find much of the damage, dents, scratches etc on the before pics.....
This leads me to believe the coin was doctored, filled, puttied, etc, then recolored with a water soluble agent. I posted " my product did not do that ", Kens reply was " YES it did ". Can you understand the frustration here? Especially on something I put my name on?
Coin #2 the Lincoln, the after pics speak for themselves, they were artifically manipulated images designed to reflect poorly on the product. Amature photographer aside, why post purple pics if the COINS ARE NOT PURPLE IN HAND ? That was the intentional part that reved me up. 1st coin I apologised and started to reflect. Coin #2 just blew it.
I hate to get heated up here, and it can only make me look like a jerk, but c'mon. The results of BOTH after shots do not reflect what the product did, it reflects other things like doctored coins and doctored photos. Thats what got my goat.
<< <i>
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. You then do it again with another coin and post doctored photos as the after photos, knowing full well that those results were not from the Verdigone. You posted a purple Lincoln knowing full well it was NOT purple, and blamed it on the Verdigone.
Sorry bud, your credibility on this is shot. >>
When I read the OP I didn't see any statement from the author stating whether the results were good or bad. >>
Not in the OP, but near the top of page 2:
<< Ksteelheader,
What are your thoughts on the results? I've heard everyone elses. >>
I don't like the results.
I originally did not state my view because I didn't want to have any influence on what anyone else thought.
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. You then do it again with another coin and post doctored photos as the after photos, knowing full well that those results were not from the Verdigone. You posted a purple Lincoln knowing full well it was NOT purple, and blamed it on the Verdigone.
Sorry bud, your credibility on this is shot. >>
I guess we'll see when I get professional photos of results now, won't we??
What about the instruction sheet not having the chemists' recommendations he made here on it??
I originally did not state my view because I didn't want to have any influence on what anyone else thought."
This is hardly the statement of someone who merely wants to disparage this product for no good reason, IMO. He presented his results and withheld his own opinion until asked.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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<< <i>
What about the instruction sheet not having the chemists' recommendations he made here on it?? >>
I will have him adress this issue. If there is any question, it needs fixed. That is true.
I cannot rely on your pictures or process any more, whether intentional or not, you have blown it. There are others that will post results that are untainted, I'll go with those I think. I hate a P'ing match, so no more of that.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
What about the instruction sheet not having the chemists' recommendations he made here on it?? >>
I will have him adress this issue. If there is any question, it needs fixed. That is true.
I cannot rely on your pictures or process any more, whether intentional or not, you have blown it. There are others that will post results that are untainted, I'll go with those I think. I hate a P'ing match, so no more of that. >>
My process is exactly like your instruction sheet says to do. You have how many bottles of this sold with what you admit to be an instruction sheet that needs "fixed''? This alone should be embarrasing as hell.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
What about the instruction sheet not having the chemists' recommendations he made here on it?? >>
I will have him adress this issue. If there is any question, it needs fixed. That is true.
I cannot rely on your pictures or process any more, whether intentional or not, you have blown it. There are others that will post results that are untainted, I'll go with those I think. I hate a P'ing match, so no more of that. >>
My process is exactly like your instruction sheet says to do. You have how many bottles of this sold with what you admit to be an instruction sheet that needs "fixed''? This alone should be embarrasing as hell. >>
Oh I don't know, about 40 bottles untill this thread started, now maybe 55-60...... Not embarrased, I have not 1 complaint. Just repeat orders, but I do promise to look into the instruction sheet.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
What about the instruction sheet not having the chemists' recommendations he made here on it?? >>
I will have him adress this issue. If there is any question, it needs fixed. That is true.
I cannot rely on your pictures or process any more, whether intentional or not, you have blown it. There are others that will post results that are untainted, I'll go with those I think. I hate a P'ing match, so no more of that. >>
My process is exactly like your instruction sheet says to do. You have how many bottles of this sold with what you admit to be an instruction sheet that needs "fixed''? This alone should be embarrasing as hell. >>
Oh I don't know, about 40 bottles untill this thread started, now maybe 55-60...... Not embarrased, I have not 1 complaint. Just repeat orders, but I do promise to look into the instruction sheet. >>
Good idea!
How 'bout posting an MSDS for those of us that can properly read one??
<< <i>I do not know how to post a MSDS, if I email you one, will you post it? jack@mesacoin.com will get SOMEONE a MSDS that is in PDF format, I have zero problems posting this publicy, go ahead. >>
I don't know how to post a PDF either. Sorry.
where can I get some of this? or will acetone be equivalent?
<< <i>a non-polar organic solvent (such as xylenes
where can I get some of this? or will acetone be equivalent? >>
Non-Polar Solvents
Non-polar solvents are compounds that have low dielecrtic constants and are not miscible with water. Examples include benzene (C6H6), carbon tetrachloride (CCl4), and diethyl ether ( CH3CH2OCH2CH3).
<< <i>Now I ain't been married for about ten years and my long distant, long term relationship of 7 years ended late 2007, but I know one thing about chemistry:
There is no MSDS (material safety data sheet) on PMS and you guys in chemistry are beginning to make me think PMS is way less volatile than testosterone.
You brothers know me. I'll likely edit this out so I don't offend any lawyers. >>
No edit now!!
Verdigone MSDS
<< <i>No dog in this race. Just helping with a post...
Verdigone MSDS >>
I just read the MSDS and the first thought that
came to mind was Marilyn Chambers...
(May she RIP)
Chlorine or Cheer™
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<< <i>
There ya go, we need one of them.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
In reality, verdigris happens. The attempt to conserve is not bad. Results vary. Now I don't know what else to say except that coins ain't worth the trouble.
Who's got marbles ?
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<< <i>
There ya go, we need one of them. >>
I think we all need to take a deep breath. I'm certainly no photographer either, so I can see where people have fits trying to make white balance identical for each image. I don't believe there was an intent to deceive on anyones' part. That being said, once you put a product out the door, it's out of your control and results may vary... caveat emptor!!
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What reaction if any would it have with PVC on a coin.
Would it soften or melt it off.
<< <i>Cheers. RickO >>
Did you get permission to use that line?
I took two of these pics last night. The first was taken before the coin had been touched. The second was after a 90 minute soak in undiluted, virgin Verdi-Gone (tm). The third I took tonight after an 18 soak. The coin was rinsed in cool tap water and patted dry after each soak. I have only used Verdi-Gone (tm) on early Lincolns (bronze) and have never had any problems with the 200+ coins I have conserved.
BEFORE:
AFTER 90 MINUTE SOAK:
AFTER 18 HOUR SOAK:
<< <i>Yes, fair is fair. I attempted to show what I know to be bad results of a product used as per the "instruction sheet." You proceeded to jump my bones via PM's and came back and apologised. I went as far as to do another coin and got the same results while following the "instruction sheet." Again, PM's from you insinuating a lawsuit.
The chemist who made the stuff then had the gall to come on here and give different instructions for it's use. Why aren't they on the instruction sheet that you send with the product?? >>
OOOOoooo threatening litigation -- that will win over more customers.
<< <i>Wow! A guy goes to bed and wakes up to this and lots of threatening PM's from Arizona Jack!
The pictures were taken outside on the hood of my car laying on white paper. The first set was at about 4:20 PM. The second set was taken at about 8:15 PM and the light was fading. Pics are taken on my Sony DSC-S85 with white balance set at "one push." In Photoshop, all I did was click on "auto levels" for each picture. I did, of course, resize the pics. I am not and have never claimed to be a good photographer. adamlaneushas given me some guidance from time to time on how to correct my picture problems, but all he has accomplished is to confuse me more.
I'll be willing to send the Lincoln in question to him to post his pics if he is willing.
There is and never was anything malicious about my posts. I can tell you that there are pink areas on the coin where debris has come off. >>
You manipulated the pictures, didn't tell anyone, and claim the coin looks exactly like the image (by not telling the whole truth)
Slanderous posts. I would be taking immediate legal action if I was the maker of this product. No doubt in the f***ing world.
<< <i>
<< <i>Im not goint to argue with you anymore Ken. You posted a before coin that had been doctored and after pics showing the doctering and blamed my product. You then do it again with another coin and post doctored photos as the after photos, knowing full well that those results were not from the Verdigone. You posted a purple Lincoln knowing full well it was NOT purple, and blamed it on the Verdigone.
Sorry bud, your credibility on this is shot. >>
When I read the OP I didn't see any statement from the author stating whether the results were good or bad. >>
LOL !! so that makes it okay ? wow, the things we could get away with.
Also, I would say the pictures are NOT "just auto levels", can someone else with Photoshop confirm this ? Auto levels does not do that. It does not increase blue for no good reason. Look at the facts not the sneaky way the altered pictures were presented.
Can I remind you that when you adjust a picture, you notice it going from okay to bright blue and click UNDO. Anyone with a reasonable IQ does this. Look at the one with the blue lowered. That is all that was adjusted, coin looks great.
I took one of your images and did auto levels. The image changed !
If you had already done auto levels the image would not change.
So what is the motive to discredit this product ? we would love to know..
Oh boy, what a long stinkin thread ......... I read most of it
I am a new customer of AzJack's ..... I ordered a bottle yesterday and was apparently shipped to me today ......
WHY ?
well, it's simple really ......... it obviously works under some or most conditions when practiced on cheap coins with varying solutions etc
WHY ELSE would so many other people have had good results with it, AND WHY else would AZJACK and the chemist defend it with so much passion ........ come on, use you brain, if the copper really turned pink or blue, they couldn't deny it and hold there heads up ...... simple logic Sherlocks, it works as intended ....... not to say some copper coins are not suitable for it
Excuse the spelling, I'm pooped after reading so much of the thread
<< <i>OK I think I have proof.
I took one of your images and did auto levels. The image changed !
If you had already done auto levels the image would not change.
So what is the motive to discredit this product ? we would love to know.. >>
You fail at PhotoShop 101.
<< <i>Thread is definitely turning weird, Ken has no reason nor gains any benefit by altering photos. he just happened to give the results of trying out a recommended product. Ridiculous to shoot the messenger. I dislike personal attacks like the one that is occurring against a member that is going out of his way to try something that was advertised here. >>
I believe it is irresponsible behavior to give a review of a product and show as examples photos taken with 2 different settings.
It either is simply poor judgment or possible malice with the intention to discredit a product. Looking at the before and after pictures in the top right corner you can see the 2 different settings. In the after photo on the right the blue level and contrast is significantly different.
Given the relationship the OP has with the forum member who represents this product it makes one consider whether or that there is malicious intent involved.
Edited to add the following: I cropped the corner of each photo so they could be closer to each other to better demonstrate the difference.
seatedcoins
<< <i>
Given the relationship the OP has with the forum member who represents this product it makes one consider whether or that there is malicious intent involved. >>
My relationship is merely that I bought what appears to be a defective product.
Amigo
<< <i>Oh boy, what a long stinkin thread ......... I read most of it
I am a new customer of AzJack's ..... I ordered a bottle yesterday and was apparently shipped to me today ......
WHY ?
well, it's simple really ......... it obviously works under some or most conditions when practiced on cheap coins with varying solutions etc
WHY ELSE would so many other people have had good results with it, AND WHY else would AZJACK and the chemist defend it with so much passion ........ come on, use you brain, if the copper really turned pink or blue, they couldn't deny it and hold there heads up ...... simple logic Sherlocks, it works as intended ....... not to say some copper coins are not suitable for it >>
<< <i>well, it's simple really ......... it obviously works under some or most conditions when practiced on cheap coins with varying solutions etc >>
So, which of these four variables are you gonna use? Some conditions, most conditions, cheap coin, or varying solutions?
<< <i>AND WHY else would AZJACK and the chemist defend it with so much passion >>
VERDICHEMIST
New Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Apr 2009
Eight posts. All of which were either to promote or defend the product. He stands to lose money if the product proves defective.
ArizonaJack
MesaCoin.com
VERDI-GONE.com
Exclusive seller of the product. He stands to lose money if the product proves defective.
<< <i>come on, use you brain, if the copper really turned pink or blue, they couldn't deny it and hold there heads up ...... simple logic Sherlocks, it works as intended >>
Sorry Sherlock, but read the portion of the instruction sheet provided here.
<< <i>
<< <i>Thread is definitely turning weird, Ken has no reason nor gains any benefit by altering photos. he just happened to give the results of trying out a recommended product. Ridiculous to shoot the messenger. I dislike personal attacks like the one that is occurring against a member that is going out of his way to try something that was advertised here. >>
I believe it is irresponsible behavior to give a review of a product and show as examples photos taken with 2 different settings.
It either is simply poor judgment or possible malice with the intention to discredit a product. Looking at the before and after pictures in the top right corner you can see the 2 different settings. In the after photo on the right the blue level and contrast is significantly different.
Given the relationship the OP has with the forum member who represents this product it makes one consider whether or that there is malicious intent involved.
DING DING DING..... I believe you are correct and I totally agree with you. It makes you wonder that after he used this product on his storecard which probably wasn't a cheap token that he maliciously started making accusations to try to discredit Arizona Jack and the makers of this product.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Thread is definitely turning weird, Ken has no reason nor gains any benefit by altering photos. he just happened to give the results of trying out a recommended product. Ridiculous to shoot the messenger. I dislike personal attacks like the one that is occurring against a member that is going out of his way to try something that was advertised here. >>
I believe it is irresponsible behavior to give a review of a product and show as examples photos taken with 2 different settings.
It either is simply poor judgment or possible malice with the intention to discredit a product. Looking at the before and after pictures in the top right corner you can see the 2 different settings. In the after photo on the right the blue level and contrast is significantly different.
Given the relationship the OP has with the forum member who represents this product it makes one consider whether or that there is malicious intent involved.
DING DING DING..... I believe you are correct and I totally agree with you. It makes you wonder that after he used this product on his storecard which probably wasn't a cheap token that he maliciously started making accusations to try to discredit Arizona Jack and the makers of this product. >>
$23 from ebay.