Just had my 1st pouring accident!!!
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
Let me begin by saying im a little shaken up, but otherwise fine. I was remelting some silver bar "rejects" that didnt make the cut for production. My intention was to melt them down and then turn them back into shot by slowly pouring the molten silver into water and having them bead up as it cooled. I was using a 2 inch high by 5 inch wide Pyrex glass container filled to the top with water. As I began pouring, I noticed that the silver was simply "pooling" at the bottom of the container rather than forming little beads or buttons. All of the sudden BLAM!!! The Pyrex dish exploded in the most awful hissing sound ever with shards of glass flying all over the place. There was an eerie sizzling sound everywhere as the semi-molten silver continued to gasp for its desire to return to room temperature. Pieces of broken Pyrex lay all over my workbench tangled and bonded to the melted silver as if to taunt me and my carelessness. The total damage seems to be 1 Pyrex dish, about 3 ounces of silver, and a big clean-up ahead of me. I can live with that as it could have been MUCH worse!
0
Comments
<< <i>Using pyrex was your first mistake, you are lucky you didn't get hurt. >>
I assumed that Pyrex would have the highest heat tolerance of anything I have available to me in the house. Im kind of thinking it wasnt so much the Pyrex dish that was the poor choice, but rather the lack of sufficient depth. I probably need a good 8-12 inches of water depth if I ever try this again. This will give the silver a decent chance to cool down as it drops to the bottom of the vessel.
And yes....im very lucky I wasnt injured!
Solution ........ You will get the shot result you want by increasing the silver/water drop length.
We use to pour 100 ozs. into a 30 gal. drum of water. I think a 5 gal. pail [metal!] would do fine for you.
********************
Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
<< <i>WOW....... Very happy to hear that the damage was minimal......
Solution ........ You will get the shot result you want by increasing the silver/water drop length.
We use to pour 100 ozs. into a 30 gal. drum of water. I think a 5 gal. pail [metal!] would do fine for you. >>
this seems like common sense to me. the volume of water and how
long the molten metal falls through it will all determine how long it
takes to cool as well as the shape it ends up.
a pyrex dish... without being mean... was stupid and lazy. it basically
makes me think you should give up the hobby. you are very lucky you
are not in the hospital right now or dead.
once again.. i do not mean this as an attack. I just highly doubt you
had on proper gear to stop molten metal from burning through your
clothes to your skin if you had the silly idea to use a common pyrex dish probably made by the lowest bidder in china. Not a lab grade
manufacturer designed to withstand 2000+ degrees.
<< <i>
<< <i>WOW....... Very happy to hear that the damage was minimal......
Solution ........ You will get the shot result you want by increasing the silver/water drop length.
We use to pour 100 ozs. into a 30 gal. drum of water. I think a 5 gal. pail [metal!] would do fine for you. >>
this seems like common sense to me. the volume of water and how
long the molten metal falls through it will all determine how long it
takes to cool as well as the shape it ends up.
a pyrex dish... without being mean... was stupid and lazy. it basically
makes me think you should give up the hobby. you are very lucky you
are not in the hospital right now or dead.
once again.. i do not mean this as an attack. I just highly doubt you
had on proper gear to stop molten metal from burning through your
clothes to your skin if you had the silly idea to use a common pyrex dish probably made by the lowest bidder in china. Not a lab grade
manufacturer designed to withstand 2000+ degrees. >>
FC....I could pour molten silver into a styrofoam cup without damaging it IF the cup was deep enough! I simply am still learning, and your suggestion of me just giving up is borderline idiotic, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was just a "knee jerk" reaction of yours. Can you imagine what this world would be like if everyone "just gave up" after a close call? Can you imagine the fire service in particular if we just "gave up" when we felt the heat on the backs of our necks? You dont just give up when you have an accident, or "feel a lil heat". You learn from your mistake and move forward with more knowledge than you had previously is all.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>WOW....... Very happy to hear that the damage was minimal......
Solution ........ You will get the shot result you want by increasing the silver/water drop length.
We use to pour 100 ozs. into a 30 gal. drum of water. I think a 5 gal. pail [metal!] would do fine for you. >>
this seems like common sense to me. the volume of water and how
long the molten metal falls through it will all determine how long it
takes to cool as well as the shape it ends up.
a pyrex dish... without being mean... was stupid and lazy. it basically
makes me think you should give up the hobby. you are very lucky you
are not in the hospital right now or dead.
once again.. i do not mean this as an attack. I just highly doubt you
had on proper gear to stop molten metal from burning through your
clothes to your skin if you had the silly idea to use a common pyrex dish probably made by the lowest bidder in china. Not a lab grade
manufacturer designed to withstand 2000+ degrees. >>
FC....I could pour molten silver into a styrofoam cup without damaging it IF the cup was deep enough! I simply am still learning, and your suggestion of me just giving up is borderline idiotic, but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was just a "knee jerk" reaction of yours. Can you imagine what this world would be like if everyone "just gave up" after a close call? Can you imagine the fire service in particular if we just "gave up" when we felt the heat on the backs of our necks? You dont just give up when you have an accident, or "feel a lil heat". You learn from your mistake and move forward with more knowledge than you had previously is all. >>
It should have never come to being a mistake. Pouring molten metal
into a household pyrex dish with such a small amount of water does
not qualify as a mistake in my mind.
It shows a lack of critical thinking skills while doing supremely dangerous
work.
just my opinion. in this situation i feel anyone is free to speak frankly
and openly when we are talking about such a dangerous hobby.
For example, someone who works with copper/brass and wishes to
turn it into a sculpture via welding. Would you not consider it highly
stupid not to wear breathing equipment so you do not die of the
fumes years later? It is that type of behavior which requires a good
yelling at.
Maybe it is because I like you and your individuality that causes me
to speak so openly and frankly.
For goodness sakes.. go buy a mask and proper clothing/gear before continuing on with this hobby.
/////////////////////////
Even if harshly stated, STILL very good advice.
It is pretty easy to blind/maim/kill yourself playing with the stuff.
<< <i>FC....I could pour molten silver into a styrofoam cup without damaging it IF the cup was deep enough! >>
You proved the point that you are not thinking about what you are doing properly
<< <i>
<< <i>FC....I could pour molten silver into a styrofoam cup without damaging it IF the cup was deep enough! >>
You proved the point that you are not thinking about what you are doing properly >>
Please expound a lil more on this. Im not quite clear on your implication. If you saw my youtube video on pouring a silver bar, you would have seen that right after its poured, I placed it in that Pyrex dish to "quench" it. I have done this now more than 100 times without incident. Why would it be fair to say I wasnt thinking when I tried to cool the silver into beads by using the EXACT same method that worked 100+ times before? Only a few factors changed this time. I had no need, or reason to think it wouldnt work. But it DIDNT work, and I learned from it. Isnt this how anyone learns anything? By trial and error? After well over 100 pours Smitty, I do not have a single mark on me. I must be doing something properly! Nobody can possibly know about everything. Im still learning.
Now, it seems that he has learned from this mistake. Hopefully he will review his entire process and try and make it even safer.
Random Collector
www.marksmedals.com
<< <i>I think people are being a little harsh. Could he have been hurt? Yes. Was anyone hurt? No. Heck, people get maimed every day in industrial accidents that are suposedly 'safe'.
Now, it seems that he has learned from this mistake. Hopefully he will review his entire process and try and make it even safer. >>
Wow!!! Someone who understands how the world actually works!!! We ALL make mistakes, from as mundane as grabbing the wrong set of car keys to as serious as blowing a red light due to not paying attention. The point is not IF you make a mistake, but rather how we react to and adapt from that experience. Its nice to see someone here who isnt blasting me for being a moron and screaming that I need to find a new hobby.
<< <i>Nice to see you are well enough to have arguments going on three different forums Phil!
Then drink from the damn bottle.
Camelot
Water and molten metal can be a very dangerous combination.
Ray
That would be cool to see.... I am glad you're fine.....
It's kinda ironic that you are a Fire Fighter.....
<< <i>You wouldn't happen to have this pour session on video would ya
If you did, we could submit it to "America's Funniest Home Videos" and possibily win you some money.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>WOW....... Very happy to hear that the damage was minimal......
Solution ........ You will get the shot result you want by increasing the silver/water drop length.
We use to pour 100 ozs. into a 30 gal. drum of water. I think a 5 gal. pail [metal!] would do fine for you. >>
this seems like common sense to me. the volume of water and how
long the molten metal falls through it will all determine how long it
takes to cool as well as the shape it ends up.
a pyrex dish... without being mean... was stupid and lazy. it basically
makes me think you should give up the hobby. you are very lucky you
are not in the hospital right now or dead.
once again.. i do not mean this as an attack. I just highly doubt you
had on proper gear to stop molten metal from burning through your
clothes to your skin if you had the silly idea to use a common pyrex dish probably made by the lowest bidder in china. Not a lab grade
manufacturer designed to withstand 2000+ degrees. >>
I hope and strive to someday become as PERFECT as fc ! ! !
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>I think people are being a little harsh. >>
Agreed.
Geck, tell me you got on video and will post it to Youtube?
Here's a photo of a shot tower that exploded. Don't try this at home.
<< <i>I think shot towers were 200 ft tall or so. There are only a few remaining historic shot towers left. Never shure how they worked.
Here's a photo of a shot tower that exploded. Don't try this at home.
There's an original shot tower in Baltimore that is also a museum open to the public. The molten lead is dropped through a screen at the top and the lead forms spherical droplets which then solidify as they fall abut 200 feet to a pool of cold water. The solidified shot is then run through a series of sieves to separate the shot into their various sizes.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Let me begin by saying im a little shaken up, but otherwise fine. I was remelting some silver bar "rejects" that didnt make the cut for production. My intention was to melt them down and then turn them back into shot by slowly pouring the molten silver into water and having them bead up as it cooled. I was using a 2 inch high by 5 inch wide Pyrex glass container filled to the top with water. As I began pouring, I noticed that the silver was simply "pooling" at the bottom of the container rather than forming little beads or buttons. All of the sudden BLAM!!! The Pyrex dish exploded in the most awful hissing sound ever with shards of glass flying all over the place. There was an eerie sizzling sound everywhere as the semi-molten silver continued to gasp for its desire to return to room temperature. Pieces of broken Pyrex lay all over my workbench tangled and bonded to the melted silver as if to taunt me and my carelessness. The total damage seems to be 1 Pyrex dish, about 3 ounces of silver, and a big clean-up ahead of me. I can live with that as it could have been MUCH worse! >>
Something to think about when you are dealing with molten metal. If water hits the molten silver as opposed to you pouring the metal into the water, you will likely have molten metal flying everywhere. You need to be very careful. I would recommend welders leathers, welding gloves, face shield with goggle underneath. I have seen this twice; once with lead and once pouring dore at my dads mine.
uh, that's two words!
After years of hard, dedicated work and continuous study, I also would like to get to that level of perfection which will pale in comparison to fc.
Jeez, fc! You never made a mistake? What a boring life!!
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
Maybe we should change our handles, just for today because my wife has stated "thatboyaintright" when I shared this experiment of yours with her.
Best wishes though on Your official # of Days without an accident now reset at 1.
<< <i>WOW, Glad to see you survived and came through the incident a little wiser, but I have one serious question.... Why bother to turn the silver rejects back into shot ? Why not just remelt and repour the old silver instread of returning it to shot form and starting all over. Or were you just trying to reverse engineer the entire process ?
Maybe we should change our handles, just for today because my wife has stated "thatboyaintright" when I shared this experiment of yours with her.
Best wishes though on Your official # of Days without an accident now reset at 1. >>
Because my new bars will be calibrated to weigh "x" amount, its much easier to pre-measure the silver grain/shot to get as close to my desired weight as possible rather then to eyeball a live pour. In other words, if I want a bar to weigh 2.50 ounces for instance, I cannot obtain that type of accuracy by melting "about 3 ounces" and then trying to pour 5/6ths of the liquid metal into my mold. The shot allows me to get within about .01 oz for any specific weight i'd like to pour.
Sounds like a good ole southern gal!
Stack'em High!
John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>Gecko, you do make sure to have a member of the CFD around at all times when you do this right? >>
Yes....in fact he watches over every single facet of the process.
because I would be smart enough to take supreme caution around
2000 degree molten metal.
all i can say is that you are all acting like a bunch of pansies who
cannot take criticism.
i researched this project before gecko even had the glint in his eye
to do this. I deemed it as irresponsible for me to do it due to the
danger of it and not having an appropriate work space at the time.
Others just say screw it and plunge ahead. They end up dead or in
the hospital due to their foolishness. Those that do not are lucky.
Working with molten metal you have to assume AN ACCIDENT WILL
HAPPEN OVER TIME. end of story.
here is a tissue. go cry.
HAPPEN OVER TIME. end of story.
I agree 100% with that statement FC. But does that mean I should just "find a new hobby" as you put it because something happened that was EXPECTED to happen anyway? Im confused now.
<< <i>Working with molten metal you have to assume AN ACCIDENT WILL
HAPPEN OVER TIME. end of story.
I agree 100% with that statement FC. But does that mean I should just "find a new hobby" as you put it because something happened that was EXPECTED to happen anyway? Im confused now. >>
if you assume that one day you will have an accident working with molten metal
then you should have known to get ALL the proper gear to work with it.
Using a dishwasher safe up to 500 degree pyrex dish is an example of not caring
enough to do it right. If that is how you plan to operate I do recommend getting
another hobby that allows for mistakes to happen that will not injure or hurt yourself.
I decided not to do this project for these exact reasons. The cost of doing it right and safely
was too much work and money... therefore I took the responsible course of saying no to myself.
Oh sure playing with blow torches and ovens capable of going up to 2000 degrees sounds fun.
right up until the point I have an accident and burn a hole into my leg/waist area due to not
taking precautions.
No hobby is worth that mayhem which could potential ruin your life due to half azzing it.
but it is your life. feel free to weigh the risks versus reward and decide. it is not like you are
pushing the boundaries of metal casting and the risk of some new process is worth it.
my two cents. i am sorry if i am too blunt for this forum.
<< <i>FC he's a firefighter for goodness sake. He shows up for work in the morning and might have a limb burned off >>
no offense to fire fighters of the world.. but a fire fighter should know
even better and it makes the accident even worse in my mind.
2000 degree silver in a melted state being poured into a household
pyrex dish rated for 500 degrees with probably less then a gallon
of water in it.
lol! stunning display of stupidity.
<< <i>
<< <i>FC he's a firefighter for goodness sake. He shows up for work in the morning and might have a limb burned off >>
no offense to fire fighters of the world.. but a fire fighter should know
even better and it makes the accident even worse in my mind.
2000 degree silver in a melted state being poured into a household
pyrex dish rated for 500 degrees with probably less then a gallon
of water in it.
lol! stunning display of stupidity. >>
I had used the exact same set-up to quench freshly poured bars over 100 times without any problems. I quench the bars about 5-10 seconds immediately after I pour them. Based on over 100 successful events, I simply did not imagine or foresee any problem with the pouring of the silver directly into the vessel. Obviously I was wrong. Why does this qualify me as being somehow "stupid" FC?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>FC he's a firefighter for goodness sake. He shows up for work in the morning and might have a limb burned off >>
no offense to fire fighters of the world.. but a fire fighter should know
even better and it makes the accident even worse in my mind.
2000 degree silver in a melted state being poured into a household
pyrex dish rated for 500 degrees with probably less then a gallon
of water in it.
lol! stunning display of stupidity. >>
I had used the exact same set-up to quench freshly poured bars over 100 times without any problems. I quench the bars about 5-10 seconds immediately after I pour them. Based on over 100 successful events, I simply did not imagine or foresee any problem with the pouring of the silver directly into the vessel. Obviously I was wrong. Why does this qualify me as being somehow "stupid" FC? >>
You took a dish designed to withstand 500 degree heat repeatedly.
You dump molten metal into it at approx 2000 degrees many many
times stressing out the
dish due to not enough water to cool it down fast enough.
The continued stress weakened the dish until the point it gave out resulting in it cracking at a key moment of time.
You figured since it worked once it would work again and again. To
me that is not understanding material stress, using the wrong gear
to do your "hobby", and a lack of mental capacity around dangerous
materials.
If a timber was burnt badly that was a main support of a floor... would
you trust it to be as strong as before? Well based on how you handled
pouring silver into a pyrex dish.. i would say yes.. you do consider
the timber which was badly burnt to be as strong as it was before.
After all, it is still holding up the floor it must be safe to use.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>FC he's a firefighter for goodness sake. He shows up for work in the morning and might have a limb burned off >>
no offense to fire fighters of the world.. but a fire fighter should know
even better and it makes the accident even worse in my mind.
2000 degree silver in a melted state being poured into a household
pyrex dish rated for 500 degrees with probably less then a gallon
of water in it.
lol! stunning display of stupidity. >>
I had used the exact same set-up to quench freshly poured bars over 100 times without any problems. I quench the bars about 5-10 seconds immediately after I pour them. Based on over 100 successful events, I simply did not imagine or foresee any problem with the pouring of the silver directly into the vessel. Obviously I was wrong. Why does this qualify me as being somehow "stupid" FC? >>
You took a dish designed to withstand 500 degree heat repeatedly.
You dump molten metal into it at approx 2000 degrees many many
times stressing out the
dish due to not enough water to cool it down fast enough.
The continued stress weakened the dish until the point it gave out resulting in it cracking at a key moment of time.
You figured since it worked once it would work again and again. To
me that is not understanding material stress, using the wrong gear
to do your "hobby", and a lack of mental capacity around dangerous
materials.
If a timber was burnt badly that was a main support of a floor... would
you trust it to be as strong as before? Well based on how you handled
pouring silver into a pyrex dish.. i would say yes.. you do consider
the timber which was badly burnt to be as strong as it was before.
After all, it is still holding up the floor it must be safe to use. >>
A badly burned timber loses up to 50% of its mass easily, therefore its not nearly as strong as it was before it burned. My pyrex dish lost no mass, and had held up for well over 100 "quenches" without even showing any signs of distortion. It didnt just "work once", it worked over 100 times (albeit under slightly different circumstances). Some of the data I have researched on pyrex shows that its dependable up to 950 degrees before failure. Yes, molten silver is 1700 degrees, but im not pouring it into a dry pyrex dish. Next time you go camping I want you to try an experiment. Take an ordinary plastic bottle full of water and set it atop a campfire where the flame is the hottest. You will be astonished to see that NOTHING happens to it for at least 2 full minutes! Its really wild. The deal is that although the plastic is in direct contact with the flame, the plastic wont melt until the water inside reaches a certain temperature. Its all about thermodynamics. My theory (incorrect) was that the water in the dish would be able to absorb enough heat in such a manner as that the pyrex dish would not be subjected to it and fail. Again....I fail to see how this makes me "stupid" at all.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>FC he's a firefighter for goodness sake. He shows up for work in the morning and might have a limb burned off >>
no offense to fire fighters of the world.. but a fire fighter should know
even better and it makes the accident even worse in my mind.
2000 degree silver in a melted state being poured into a household
pyrex dish rated for 500 degrees with probably less then a gallon
of water in it.
lol! stunning display of stupidity. >>
I had used the exact same set-up to quench freshly poured bars over 100 times without any problems. I quench the bars about 5-10 seconds immediately after I pour them. Based on over 100 successful events, I simply did not imagine or foresee any problem with the pouring of the silver directly into the vessel. Obviously I was wrong. Why does this qualify me as being somehow "stupid" FC? >>
You took a dish designed to withstand 500 degree heat repeatedly.
You dump molten metal into it at approx 2000 degrees many many
times stressing out the
dish due to not enough water to cool it down fast enough.
The continued stress weakened the dish until the point it gave out resulting in it cracking at a key moment of time.
You figured since it worked once it would work again and again. To
me that is not understanding material stress, using the wrong gear
to do your "hobby", and a lack of mental capacity around dangerous
materials.
If a timber was burnt badly that was a main support of a floor... would
you trust it to be as strong as before? Well based on how you handled
pouring silver into a pyrex dish.. i would say yes.. you do consider
the timber which was badly burnt to be as strong as it was before.
After all, it is still holding up the floor it must be safe to use. >>
A badly burned timber loses up to 50% of its mass easily, therefore its not nearly as strong as it was before it burned. My pyrex dish lost no mass, and had held up for well over 100 "quenches" without even showing any signs of distortion. It didnt just "work once", it worked over 100 times (albeit under slightly different circumstances). Some of the data I have researched on pyrex shows that its dependable up to 950 degrees before failure. Yes, molten silver is 1700 degrees, but im not pouring it into a dry pyrex dish. Next time you go camping I want you to try an experiment. Take an ordinary plastic bottle full of water and set it atop a campfire where the flame is the hottest. You will be astonished to see that NOTHING happens to it for at least 2 full minutes! Its really wild. The deal is that although the plastic is in direct contact with the flame, the plastic wont melt until the water inside reaches a certain temperature. Its all about thermodynamics. My theory (incorrect) was that the water in the dish would be able to absorb enough heat in such a manner as that the pyrex dish would not be subjected to it and fail. Again....I fail to see how this makes me "stupid" at all. >>
i knew I should not have tried. you will not admit a mistake. losing
mass is different then stressing out a material via heat.
having near molten metal hitting the pyrex dish bottom while still
quite hot seems like it would heat up the glass to me.
but this is my last post. i said my piece. good luck!
I'm glad your alright... Some dangerous work. The silver fumes can also be very toxic too.
<< <i>One word: EYE PROTECTION!
uh, that's two words! >>
You might want to remember these two words also FLACK JACKET!
If I read right, the British documents governing the making of silver / gold bars state NOT to quench them in water. I forget where I ran into them on the net, but you can go looking if you want. Don't ask me why (materials class was a long time ago), but there was some danger if you ever melted the bar again and it was formed by quenching in water to begin with.
<< <i>I don't really get why you're quenching your bars in water anyway. Don't be in such a hurry to pick up your handiwork.
If I read right, the British documents governing the making of silver / gold bars state NOT to quench them in water. I forget where I ran into them on the net, but you can go looking if you want. Don't ask me why (materials class was a long time ago), but there was some danger if you ever melted the bar again and it was formed by quenching in water to begin with. >>
I've heard that somewhere also, moisture can get trapped in the bar and can "explode" when remelted.
Life is good