<< <i>"I was shocked by that as well, especially since I sent it from New York at 4:59pm on Friday, and Monday was a holiday. "
no - no way ; I don't care what tracking info sez - Registered Mail can not move that fast
all but impossible :
it would not have gotten into the system until Sat. and with no mail service Monday -
impossible to have him get it Tuesday morning........no how -no way
Something is afoul here
the only scenario is if you lived within 50 miles of the buyer and even then he would have had to be at the post office when they opened and he'd have to request a special favor to have someone look in the vault ...... >>
Paul, these are incorrect statements. The USPS operates 24 hours per day handling mail. The only thing not provided 24 hours per day is mail delivery and teller services. Some letter carriers or other post office emplyees can feel free to chime in if I am incorrect, but from what I knew several years ago, mail handlers worked 24 hours per day, including holidays.
That sucks, i have always been a little worried about selling sealed boxes. It turns out to be a he said, she said and paypal is always going to be on the sellers side. Pulling your money out of your paypal account does nothing for you. Paypal will get it one way or the other.
Where are the shipping rules? On ebays site or at paypals. I need to read up on them to save myself some grief later down the road.
Paypal just bites but that is the way it is. Last week i sold a bag of 5000 wheat cents by weight 32.5 pounds. I noticed when i shipped the bag that it weighed only 32.5 packed. So i went in and refunded the guy for 2 pounds based on the price he paid per pound AS SOON as i got home from the post office and then notified him. All was fine, he left positive feedback. Two weeks later he filed saying i shorted him 3 pounds. ( no way i was generous the first time). Long story short he wanted another 8 bucks, paypal gave him ALL his money back and he had the coins. Took a few calls to paypal to get the money back. In the end it cost me another 8 dollars.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
nycounsel, sorry to hear about this. Not much you can do about it either.
I've always been afraid to sell a sealed box on ebay. I didn't want someone to get my packing slip (or a friend's if they helped with a purchase). I'll send a selaed box to PCGS, but I won't sell one (but that is just me).
I try to put some bubble wrap in the box to keep the coin from moving durring shipment. But you can't do that with a sealed box!
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
<< <i>Sorry to hear you are going through this for something that is obviously not your fault. I think a lesson to be learned, by all, (Including myself).
By Golly sweet tootsie rolls, the man isn't perfect..
Bochiman >>
>>
yaha...You still bring nothing useful to threads, whether you start them or just butt into them, do you? (and, you can't even edit/quote correctly...you keep breaking quotes
<< <i>"I was shocked by that as well, especially since I sent it from New York at 4:59pm on Friday, and Monday was a holiday. "
no - no way ; I don't care what tracking info sez - Registered Mail can not move that fast
all but impossible :
it would not have gotten into the system until Sat. and with no mail service Monday -
impossible to have him get it Tuesday morning........no how -no way
Something is afoul here
the only scenario is if you lived within 50 miles of the buyer and even then he would have had to be at the post office when they opened and he'd have to request a special favor to have someone look in the vault ...... >>
Not true, I have had registered get from Ames, Iowa to delivered in Florida in about 3 days. Sometimes the stars just align perfectly. If it gets to a major PO on the day you send it, it can get delivered quite quickly.
<< <i>FC, it was sent registered insured with signature/delivery confirmation. I mistakenly wrote delivery confirmation. >>
The number you provided was delivery confirmation. Signature confirmation is required under the PayPal seller protection policy, even if you ship Registered Mail.
Russ, NCNE >>
So what kind of protection is the seller getting here then since receipt is apparently not in doubt? So if I send you a rock instead of a coin and follow all of the rules how does that protect me?
<< <i>"I was shocked by that as well, especially since I sent it from New York at 4:59pm on Friday, and Monday was a holiday. "
no - no way ; I don't care what tracking info sez - Registered Mail can not move that fast
all but impossible :
it would not have gotten into the system until Sat. and with no mail service Monday -
impossible to have him get it Tuesday morning........no how -no way
Something is afoul here
the only scenario is if you lived within 50 miles of the buyer and even then he would have had to be at the post office when they opened and he'd have to request a special favor to have someone look in the vault ...... >>
Paul, these are incorrect statements. The USPS operates 24 hours per day handling mail. The only thing not provided 24 hours per day is mail delivery and teller services. Some letter carriers or other post office emplyees can feel free to chime in if I am incorrect, but from what I knew several years ago, mail handlers worked 24 hours per day, including holidays. >>
yes the work 24/7 but registered is different. i ship stuff all the time and i send first class to an ebay buyer in california and i`m in ct. and it takes 3 or 4 days. when i send submissions to pcgs registered it takes 2 weeks. hard to believe the guy got a registered package that fast.
<< <i>So what kind of protection is the seller getting here then since receipt is apparently not in doubt? So if I send you a rock instead of a coin and follow all of the rules how does that protect me? >>
Different issue that what I originally addressed. Please read the genesis of the seller protection policy discussion.
Then again the morons at eBay need to understand that a blind date is just that. When you purchase an item accurately described that implies some risk then I think as a buyer you assume the risk. Woulda bin more interesting if it had been sold as an unopened 4 coin set and there were only 3 coins in it. It would be a grave mistake to say that there are 4 coins it it since you don't really know for sure. You do state tho that it was sold as a 4 coin set.
Since the 1st of the year I've received Registered packages from the mint that took only 2 days to transit. I think it's the slow economy. Normally it's over a week.
Since he opened it, it is no longer the same item that you sent to him so you should not be required to accept it back. It should be clearly stated in the terms that IF YOU OPEN IT YOU OWN IT. Any issues as to damage, shortage etc. should be taken up with the mint , but you would likely need to assist.
Blocked........Sounds like buyers' remorse and he is using any excuse, to return the set. No good choices here. Call it a day with Paypal and not use them again or take the set back,for a loss in profits. Tuff one. The amount isn't small, but think I would refund and continue with fleabay/Payfee.
PayPal is absolutely worthless to you now, going forward. You are the 'criminal', not him.
If you can accept those statements above, move to this:
1.) Halt any other sales you have on EBay as any money from sold items is applied to the Pay Pal negative Balance.
2.) If you have your bank Account link to your PayPal Account, sweep the funds out of the Bank Account ASAP. However is you have overdraft, you are screwed.
3.) First thing in the AM, go to your Bank and sign off/remove any overdraft protection you have been given on the Bank Account.
4.) If it takes opening up new accounts, do it, but completely isolate that Bank account-linked to PayPal from any oher account you own. Have the Manager make sure, personally.
5.) Start letting the buyer know the world of hurt that awaits him if he does not return the Coins. Lean especially heavy on him; throw your weight, FEDEx one of those *special* letters. US Mail Fraud is not an especially fun way to spend his summer fighting off.
What a bunch of BS, compliments of the eBay/PayPal combine. I'm in total agreement with what everyone else has said....you sold a mint sealed box, you delivered a mint sealed box. It is inherent in such a transaction that the condition of the coins therein are unknown. The coins could all be 70's, in which case the buyer made a good score. The box could have been completely empty, in case the buyer lost out. But in both cases, the buyer received what he contracted for: A US Mint Sealed Box, represented from the US Mint as containing xxxxx.
A friend of mine just sold the next sealed set of 2008 w unc plats for $3400. He has only an eBay feedback of 26, but it all positive and mostly high dollar coins. The buyer had a feedback of ZERO. However, the buyer had emailed my friend before bidding and everything seemed OK. My friend received payment withing a couple of hours via PayPal, but PayPal froze his funds! Upon inquiry, my friend was told that since he had less than 100 feedback on eBay, his funds would not be released until either he received positive feedback from the buyer on eBay or 30 days. PayPal told him to go ahead and ship the set and everything would be OK.
I advised my friend ABSOLUTELY NOT! It's a ZERO feedback buyer and he could cancel the transaction with PayPal and withdraw his money back at any point, until it had been released to you and you had swiped it into another account.
Resolution....My friend called the buyer, asked him to cancel the payment that was made in regard to an eBay transaction, and send the money via PayPal directly, without referencing an eBay transaction. The buyer agreed, and all worked Ok in the end....but what a bunch of BS to have to go through!
Does anyone else here think eBay could be setting itself up for one hellva anti-trust lawsuit by requiring payment through PayPal? Seems like a prima facie if I've ever seen one!
Do you think eBay would frown on it if we were to contact the seller and ask him if he knows WTF he is doing? Would it be considered auction interference at this point?
If a guy is a cheat he can claim the sealed box didn't have what it was suppose to or he can say your personally packaged (not a mint sealed) registered mail didn't have what it was suppose to have in it. You can't win if the guys a cheat. I've thought of this in the past and even thought I might have a dealer mail a package for me as a witness that the package contained what it was suppose to.
A. The buyer is obviously not trying to cheat anyone - he never stated that a single coin was missing.
B. The buyer could have bought a PCGS-MS70 sey for LESS money than he paid for this sealed set (still can), which he intented to open obviously. But, the buyer wanted nice clean raw coins and capsules obviously. When he opened it, he was dissapointed with what he saw. Surely no fault of the seller.
C. Solution - allow him to return the set for an opened replacement set, but with all nice clean capsules and coins which seller can "cherry" for buyer. Seller will essentially be getting the exact same thing back as he is sending again, but, buyer should be very happy with deal. Work with this buyer as he does not appear to be a cheat in any way - just a newbie.
Did I miss something that makes my suggestion foolish (I did not read the entire thread)?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
A. The buyer is obviously not trying to cheat anyone - he never stated that a single coin was missing.
B. The buyer could have bought a PCGS-MS70 sey for LESS money than he paid for this sealed set (still can), which he intented to open obviously. But, the buyer wanted nice clean raw coins and capsules obviously. When he opened it, he was dissapointed with what he saw. Surely no fault of the seller.
C. Solution - allow him to return the set for an opened replacement set, but with all nice clean capsules and coins which seller can "cherry" for buyer. Seller will essentially be getting the exact same thing back as he is sending again, but, buyer should be very happy with deal. Work with this buyer as he does not appear to be a cheat in any way - just a newbie.
Did I miss something that makes my suggestion foolish (I did not read the entire thread)? "
Mitch, what you missed is that the buyer overbid. He paid $3850 for a sealed set at the same time there was a BIN for $3900 for a PCGS MS70 set. He discovered his mistake, and is using a ruse to try and void the auction.
<< <i>I sold a mint-sealed 4 coin platinum uncirculated set for a high bid of $3849. The buyer paid using paypal.
I sent the buyer several emails to verify shipping address, but he never responded.
I was concerned about this and the possibility of fraud. My instincts told me something wasn't right about this one.
However, since the buyer had good feedback, and I didn't want the buyer to complain that he paid and I was delaying in sending the set, I sent the set to the confirmed address provided by paypal, using registered insured mail with delivery confirmation.
The set went out on Friday. Today, paypal notifies me that the buyer:
"recently opened a dispute against this transaction indicating that the merchandise was significantly not as described.
The buyer's claim is in regard to merchandise that either was never received or did not match your original description."
This was a sealed box, so I'm not sure how it could not match the description.
I called Paypal, and was told the buyer claimed that one capsule was open and that another was missing the top.
I've dealt with a lot of platinum sets and never heard of an open capsule or a missing piece of a capsule. (I am aware of the open capsule problem with the buffalo gold coins). Anyway, it seems unlikely to me. However, even if that were the case, I'd have no way of knowing it since the box was in unopen, sealed condition. I also don't understand why the buyer never contacted me.
I disputed the claim with paypal, but the whole scenario stinks.
The ebay transaction number is: 220354960996 ebay listing >>
I've not read the entire thread, just your initial post, so sorry if this has been said, but "sealed box" is just that - sealed. Just as it arrived from the Mint. I've sold a lot of Buffs in the sealed boxes. I have NO DOUBT that some of them were out of the capsules. You'd think that the buyer understands this. In any case, I think that the most telling part of this most unfortunate affair is that the buyer did not contact you first but filed a claim. Clearly he thought that he overpaid and is just hosing you to get out of the sale. Thanks for letting us know his ID so that we can BLOCK him!!! Stick it out, you're on the right side of this one 100%. You said Mint Sealed, and Mint Sealed it was!
<< <i>Empty your Paypal account if you already haven't done so. I went through a dispute and it seems Paypal always sides with the buyer 99% of the time. It's always scared me to sell sell unopened boxes as a buyer can claim anything and a seller has no defense to fraud. >>
I've sold a lot of these yet I share the same concerns. The buyer could say that it was an empty box and you're hosed. I've been lucky and had no problems whatsoever so far.
Truth be told, as disgusted as I am about this, his feedback to this point is unblemished.
I hesitate to call him a liar. He paid immediately.
But he has never once emailed me.
His claim is supposedly that a capsule was open. But even if that were the case, it's in a sealed box.
I can't see how that reflects on me- I couldn't know that when the box was sealed.
I think that a buyer of a sealed box assumes a risk of that kind of thing happening.
If paypal says he should return the set, he can easily swap it out for a damaged set and I will have no way of verifying.
Plus since he opened the box, it obviously lowers the value. >>
For what it's worth (not much I'm sure) I'd let him know that coins arriving from the Mint with open capsules is hardly rare. I agree 100% that the buyer assumes this risk, just as we do when we buy from the Mint.
I have nothing of value to add that others have not already said. I just wanted to say good luck and keep us up to date so we know how to battle this in the future if it happens again.
<< <i>FB - You will only be sure of that IF he passes on the suggestion to replace to set - right? >>
Mitch, actually I see no responsibility on the part of the seller to replace the set. The Buyer bought a mint sealed set, knowing he may win or he may lose. It's a chance he took. To suggest that because he didn't like what he saw upon opening the set, and therefore he is entitled to return the set, is paramount to sugesting that if he had opened it and they all were 70's he should send the seller more money. A sealed set is a sealed set...
As Forrest Gump said....you never know what you will get....
FB: Maybe it's just my 12 years on ebay always trying to keep the buyers happy. I've had a few unusual hoops to jump through in those 12 years myself. I never suggested the seller owed the buyer anything here. What I was suggesting was perhaps there was an easy way to make an unhappy buyer happy without the seller having to do very much. After all, the complaints here involved loose and opened capsules, not missing coins. But, virtually everyone here suggests this buyer is a scammer - I can see that and maybe that is the case.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I thnk in this case the Seller probably has no right to a refund, unless you want to refund them just as goodwill.
In general there can be misunderstandings, and mistakes, but who goes out of their way to Cheat a coin dealer on the internet? And is it really cheating, or just unclear expectations. What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
Who ever said PayPal "always" sides with the buyer is wrong. I lost a case based on reasonable doubt.
Heres my story : A year ago or so I bought some , and low and behold an unsealed box showed up.
In my case, the Seller did a crappy job of sealing the box (used no packing tape whatsoever), and someone in between (post office -- who knows) must ripped it off. The coins were gone, and something that weighed about the same was put into the box. I never for a minute thought the seller was dishonest, but I did think they were at lease partially respobsible fo rbad packaging and carelessness .
Its wrong to assume the other person is crooked. And its naiive to think that you can trust everyone - especially when it comes to money. But sometimes you just have to believe that maybe the other guy is not aware of the ettiquite.
I learned my lesson the hard way, Seller: get the package sealed properly. If you are selling sealed boxes, remind them that the fact they are sealed is part of the value -- and state there is no refund if the package is opened. This way there wont be so many problems. And buyers, - - get the insurance. Pay Pal is not an automatic refund if things get fouled up in the mail.
So in this case, If I were the seller, I'd just state that the "value" of the deal was in part the mystery of not knowing the grade of the coin. In other words its a crap shoot, just like any time you buy a coin from the mint. But the difference is that the mint will take it as a return within 30 days.
“When you don't know what you're talking about, it's hard to know when you're finished.” - Tommy Smothers
<< <i>delivery confirmation? should not an expensive package have used signature confirmation all the time?
seems like that is being penny wise, pound foolish. russ is right about the type of claim being filed saving your bacon.
i hope it works out for the best. good luck. >>
Registered mail requires a signature which can be obtained from the Post Office so, in essence, it is signature confirmation. >>
But if a PayPal doofus can't verify the signature from the comfort of his cubicle the service is no good. Surely you wouldn't expect them to EVER get off of their dead ass and go check would you? Actually if you go to the P O they mostly tell you that they really aren't supposed to do that.
My take: the buyer found open capsules. He was disappointed. He decided the misfortune of having bad coins in the box should land on the seller, not him. He probably only wants to return them but he is not the most ethical buyer or he would have called instead of forcing it with a dispute--probably realizes that he got what he bought. but the seller has lost his sealed box premium. The premium is gone forever and technically was worthless since the coins inside were poor quality. Mitch's solution would be a win win for everyone if the seller can sell it to the buyer. It is the only way I can see were the sealed box premium doesn't vanish in this deal. --Jerry
Nowhere in the OP does it say that the coins were of poor quality, only that one coin was loose and one was missing half of a capsule. The sealed box may have still had a premium if it was first strike eligible. If the box was outside of ANY mint return window aren't the orig purchaser and any subsequent owners pretty much SOL?
I've bought many items but never sold. As the seller that just has to be frustrating. While I believe what you are saying, you don't have any proof that the box was unopened when you mailed it, and couldn't unless you video taped the whole darn transaction.
I just bought a high-end Barber Half through the mail and it arrived in peices. The seller made good on things, but clearly the post office messed up in this case. I don't believe this is a post office failure, but if the buyer doesn't give you any help (assuming he is trying) you don't have anything to work.
If you are a regular seller and accept Paypal, do you get any credibility for that. Good luck
<< <i>FB: Maybe it's just my 12 years on ebay always trying to keep the buyers happy. I've had a few unusual hoops to jump through in those 12 years myself. I never suggested the seller owed the buyer anything here. What I was suggesting was perhaps there was an easy way to make an unhappy buyer happy without the seller having to do very much. After all, the complaints here involved loose and opened capsules, not missing coins. But, virtually everyone here suggests this buyer is a scammer - I can see that and maybe that is the case.
Wondercoin >>
That would probably work if the seller had another set.
<< <i>Nowhere in the OP does it say that the coins were of poor quality, only that one coin was loose and one was missing half of a capsule. The sealed box may have still had a premium if it was first strike eligible. If the box was outside of ANY mint return window aren't the orig purchaser and any subsequent owners pretty much SOL? >>
A sealed box has a premium sometimes because we know the coins inside are not cherrypicked. So the buyer expected pristine coins in the capsule. Unbeknownst to anyone they had become dislodged from the capsules, banging around and resulting in what I called "poor quality". --Jerry
<< <i>I've bought many items but never sold. As the seller that just has to be frustrating. While I believe what you are saying, you don't have any proof that the box was unopened when you mailed it, and couldn't unless you video taped the whole darn transaction.
I just bought a high-end Barber Half through the mail and it arrived in peices. The seller made good on things, but clearly the post office messed up in this case. I don't believe this is a post office failure, but if the buyer doesn't give you any help (assuming he is trying) you don't have anything to work.
If you are a regular seller and accept Paypal, do you get any credibility for that. Good luck >>
Then again what proof does the buyer have to support his side? Maybe eBay needs to open some satellite offices where you send your packages to and they are opened in front of a witness. This whole deal stinks of ineptitude and the more of these one reads about, the more one gets turned off to eBay esp considering the high fees involved.
Mitch, I agree with you that you should try to make the buyer happy.
But as others have pointed out, the buyer did not contact the seller with this problem but instead went straight to PayPal. The buyer might not be a scammer, but he is not being a good customer either.
What I don't understand is why you would buy a "sealed box" unless you intend on having it graded and can get the FS designation. If this is the case then opening the box voided that possibility. Otherwise, I'd rather buy something that has been photographed so I know what I am getting and if I don't like it, I can return it. Those shipping boxes can be resealed and it is hard to detect it (because the shipper didn't do a very good job of sealing them) so I wouldn't pay more for the sealed box. I'm not saying that anyone here would do this, I'm just saying that it is possible.
If part of the value of the set is the box, then opening it will drive the value down no matter what (just like driving a new car off the lot turns it into a used car).
I'd keep playing. I don't think the heavy stuff will be coming down for quite a while!
<< <i>Nowhere in the OP does it say that the coins were of poor quality, only that one coin was loose and one was missing half of a capsule. The sealed box may have still had a premium if it was first strike eligible. If the box was outside of ANY mint return window aren't the orig purchaser and any subsequent owners pretty much SOL? >>
A sealed box has a premium sometimes because we know the coins inside are not cherrypicked. So the buyer expected pristine coins in the capsule. Unbeknownst to anyone they had become dislodged from the capsules, banging around and resulting in what I called "poor quality". --Jerry >>
Platinum is very hard so I doubt the coins suffered any damage.
Comments
<< <i>"I was shocked by that as well, especially since I sent it from New York at 4:59pm on Friday, and Monday was a holiday. "
no - no way ; I don't care what tracking info sez - Registered Mail can not move that fast
all but impossible :
it would not have gotten into the system until Sat. and with no mail service Monday -
impossible to have him get it Tuesday morning........no how -no way
Something is afoul here
the only scenario is if you lived within 50 miles of the buyer and even then he would have had to be at the post office when they opened and he'd have to request a special favor to have someone look in the vault ...... >>
Paul, these are incorrect statements. The USPS operates 24 hours per day handling mail. The only thing not provided 24 hours per day is mail delivery and teller services. Some letter carriers or other post office emplyees can feel free to chime in if I am incorrect, but from what I knew several years ago, mail handlers worked 24 hours per day, including holidays.
Where are the shipping rules? On ebays site or at paypals. I need to read up on them to save myself some grief later down the road.
Paypal just bites but that is the way it is. Last week i sold a bag of 5000 wheat cents by weight 32.5 pounds. I noticed when i shipped the bag that it weighed only 32.5 packed. So i went in and refunded the guy for 2 pounds based on the price he paid per pound AS SOON as i got home from the post office and then notified him. All was fine, he left positive feedback. Two weeks later he filed saying i shorted him 3 pounds. ( no way i was generous the first time). Long story short he wanted another 8 bucks, paypal gave him ALL his money back and he had the coins. Took a few calls to paypal to get the money back. In the end it cost me another 8 dollars.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I've always been afraid to sell a sealed box on ebay. I didn't want someone to get my packing slip (or a friend's if they helped with a purchase). I'll send a selaed box to PCGS, but I won't sell one (but that is just me).
I try to put some bubble wrap in the box to keep the coin from moving durring shipment. But you can't do that with a sealed box!
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry to hear you are going through this for something that is obviously not your fault.
I think a lesson to be learned, by all, (Including myself).
By Golly sweet tootsie rolls, the man isn't perfect..
>>
yaha...You still bring nothing useful to threads, whether you start them or just butt into them, do you?
(and, you can't even edit/quote correctly...you keep breaking quotes
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>"I was shocked by that as well, especially since I sent it from New York at 4:59pm on Friday, and Monday was a holiday. "
no - no way ; I don't care what tracking info sez - Registered Mail can not move that fast
all but impossible :
it would not have gotten into the system until Sat. and with no mail service Monday -
impossible to have him get it Tuesday morning........no how -no way
Something is afoul here
the only scenario is if you lived within 50 miles of the buyer and even then he would have had to be at the post office when they opened and he'd have to request a special favor to have someone look in the vault ...... >>
Not true, I have had registered get from Ames, Iowa to delivered in Florida in about 3 days. Sometimes the stars just align perfectly. If it gets to a major PO on the day you send it, it can get delivered quite quickly.
<< <i>
<< <i>FC, it was sent registered insured with signature/delivery confirmation. I mistakenly wrote delivery confirmation. >>
The number you provided was delivery confirmation. Signature confirmation is required under the PayPal seller protection policy, even if you ship Registered Mail.
Russ, NCNE >>
So what kind of protection is the seller getting here then since receipt is apparently not in doubt? So if I send you a rock instead of a coin and follow all of the rules how does that protect me?
i agree they work 24 hours a day
...and yes - three day Registered mail delivery is possible -
..........i guess it's a freakin miracle then
<< <i>
<< <i>"I was shocked by that as well, especially since I sent it from New York at 4:59pm on Friday, and Monday was a holiday. "
no - no way ; I don't care what tracking info sez - Registered Mail can not move that fast
all but impossible :
it would not have gotten into the system until Sat. and with no mail service Monday -
impossible to have him get it Tuesday morning........no how -no way
Something is afoul here
the only scenario is if you lived within 50 miles of the buyer and even then he would have had to be at the post office when they opened and he'd have to request a special favor to have someone look in the vault ...... >>
Paul, these are incorrect statements. The USPS operates 24 hours per day handling mail. The only thing not provided 24 hours per day is mail delivery and teller services. Some letter carriers or other post office emplyees can feel free to chime in if I am incorrect, but from what I knew several years ago, mail handlers worked 24 hours per day, including holidays. >>
yes the work 24/7 but registered is different. i ship stuff all the time and i send first class to an ebay buyer in california and i`m in ct. and it takes 3 or 4 days. when i send submissions to pcgs registered it takes 2 weeks. hard to believe the guy got a registered package that fast.
<< <i>So what kind of protection is the seller getting here then since receipt is apparently not in doubt? So if I send you a rock instead of a coin and follow all of the rules how does that protect me? >>
Different issue that what I originally addressed. Please read the genesis of the seller protection policy discussion.
Russ, NCNE
Then again the morons at eBay need to understand that a blind date is just that. When you purchase an item accurately described that implies some risk then I think as a buyer you assume the risk. Woulda bin more interesting if it had been sold as an unopened 4 coin set and there were only 3 coins in it. It would be a grave mistake to say that there are 4 coins it it since you don't really know for sure. You do state tho that it was sold as a 4 coin set.
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it - Clint Eastwood
End of story......unless you can get the set back and ship them back to the mint for exchange of a sealed box.
Nothing other than to say "That Sucks" and not in a good way.
Hell, I don't need to exercise.....I get enough just pushing my luck.
Assuming he gets it back to you pronto?
Or are you passed that window?
Hopefully he is simply telling the truth, and not switching on you.
Then again he bought a sealed box and if an extra set was in there he wouldn't be crying.
Yes the mint does send extras. I got 15 extra sets of 1st day covers one time.
Yes I returned them.
Steve
You should have called me!
PayPal is absolutely worthless to you now, going forward. You are the 'criminal', not him.
If you can accept those statements above, move to this:
1.) Halt any other sales you have on EBay as any money from sold items is applied to the Pay Pal negative Balance.
2.) If you have your bank Account link to your PayPal Account, sweep the funds out of the Bank Account ASAP. However is you have overdraft, you are screwed.
3.) First thing in the AM, go to your Bank and sign off/remove any overdraft protection you have been given on the Bank Account.
4.) If it takes opening up new accounts, do it, but completely isolate that Bank account-linked to PayPal from any oher account you own. Have the Manager make sure, personally.
5.) Start letting the buyer know the world of hurt that awaits him if he does not return the Coins. Lean especially heavy on him; throw your weight, FEDEx one of those *special* letters. US Mail Fraud is not an especially fun way to spend his summer fighting off.
What a bunch of BS, compliments of the eBay/PayPal combine. I'm in total agreement with what everyone else has said....you sold a mint sealed box, you delivered a mint sealed box. It is inherent in such a transaction that the condition of the coins therein are unknown. The coins could all be 70's, in which case the buyer made a good score. The box could have been completely empty, in case the buyer lost out. But in both cases, the buyer received what he contracted for: A US Mint Sealed Box, represented from the US Mint as containing xxxxx.
A friend of mine just sold the next sealed set of 2008 w unc plats for $3400. He has only an eBay feedback of 26, but it all positive and mostly high dollar coins. The buyer had a feedback of ZERO. However, the buyer had emailed my friend before bidding and everything seemed OK. My friend received payment withing a couple of hours via PayPal, but PayPal froze his funds! Upon inquiry, my friend was told that since he had less than 100 feedback on eBay, his funds would not be released until either he received positive feedback from the buyer on eBay or 30 days. PayPal told him to go ahead and ship the set and everything would be OK.
I advised my friend ABSOLUTELY NOT! It's a ZERO feedback buyer and he could cancel the transaction with PayPal and withdraw his money back at any point, until it had been released to you and you had swiped it into another account.
Resolution....My friend called the buyer, asked him to cancel the payment that was made in regard to an eBay transaction, and send the money via PayPal directly, without referencing an eBay transaction. The buyer agreed, and all worked Ok in the end....but what a bunch of BS to have to go through!
Does anyone else here think eBay could be setting itself up for one hellva anti-trust lawsuit by requiring payment through PayPal? Seems like a prima facie if I've ever seen one!
FloridaBill
and ask him what he wants done to rectify the situation
if he says he is going to keep the plats and also get his money back,
tell them that they also are going to get about 50 cents worth of lead in the next 6 months, but it will not be coming in the mail
<< <i>I would get contact information and give the guy a call >>
The "fifty cents worth of lead" part.....
Brother, it's just money. If we get screwed, we get screwed. God will sort it out in the end. That's his job, not ours.
With Regards,
FloridaBill
A. The buyer is obviously not trying to cheat anyone - he never stated that a single coin was missing.
B. The buyer could have bought a PCGS-MS70 sey for LESS money than he paid for this sealed set (still can), which he intented to open obviously. But, the buyer wanted nice clean raw coins and capsules obviously. When he opened it, he was dissapointed with what he saw. Surely no fault of the seller.
C. Solution - allow him to return the set for an opened replacement set, but with all nice clean capsules and coins which seller can "cherry" for buyer. Seller will essentially be getting the exact same thing back as he is sending again, but, buyer should be very happy with deal. Work with this buyer as he does not appear to be a cheat in any way - just a newbie.
Did I miss something that makes my suggestion foolish (I did not read the entire thread)?
Wondercoin
A. The buyer is obviously not trying to cheat anyone - he never stated that a single coin was missing.
B. The buyer could have bought a PCGS-MS70 sey for LESS money than he paid for this sealed set (still can), which he intented to open obviously. But, the buyer wanted nice clean raw coins and capsules obviously. When he opened it, he was dissapointed with what he saw. Surely no fault of the seller.
C. Solution - allow him to return the set for an opened replacement set, but with all nice clean capsules and coins which seller can "cherry" for buyer. Seller will essentially be getting the exact same thing back as he is sending again, but, buyer should be very happy with deal. Work with this buyer as he does not appear to be a cheat in any way - just a newbie.
Did I miss something that makes my suggestion foolish (I did not read the entire thread)? "
Mitch, what you missed is that the buyer overbid. He paid $3850 for a sealed set at the same time there was a BIN for $3900 for a PCGS MS70 set. He discovered his mistake, and is using a ruse to try and void the auction.
FloridaBill
Wondercoin
<< <i>I sold a mint-sealed 4 coin platinum uncirculated set for a high bid of $3849. The buyer paid using paypal.
I sent the buyer several emails to verify shipping address, but he never responded.
I was concerned about this and the possibility of fraud. My instincts told me something wasn't right about this one.
However, since the buyer had good feedback, and I didn't want the buyer to complain that he paid and I was delaying in sending the set, I sent the set to the confirmed address provided by paypal, using registered insured mail with delivery confirmation.
The set went out on Friday. Today, paypal notifies me that the buyer:
"recently opened a dispute against this transaction indicating that the merchandise was significantly not as described.
The buyer's claim is in regard to merchandise that either was never received or did not match your original description."
This was a sealed box, so I'm not sure how it could not match the description.
I called Paypal, and was told the buyer claimed that one capsule was open and that another was missing the top.
I've dealt with a lot of platinum sets and never heard of an open capsule or a missing piece of a capsule. (I am aware of the open capsule problem with the buffalo gold coins). Anyway, it seems unlikely to me. However, even if that were the case, I'd have no way of knowing it since the box was in unopen, sealed condition. I also don't understand why the buyer never contacted me.
I disputed the claim with paypal, but the whole scenario stinks.
The ebay transaction number is: 220354960996 ebay listing >>
I've not read the entire thread, just your initial post, so sorry if this has been said, but "sealed box" is just that - sealed. Just as it arrived from the Mint. I've sold a lot of Buffs in the sealed boxes. I have NO DOUBT that some of them were out of the capsules. You'd think that the buyer understands this. In any case, I think that the most telling part of this most unfortunate affair is that the buyer did not contact you first but filed a claim. Clearly he thought that he overpaid and is just hosing you to get out of the sale. Thanks for letting us know his ID so that we can BLOCK him!!! Stick it out, you're on the right side of this one 100%. You said Mint Sealed, and Mint Sealed it was!
<< <i>
<< <i>I would get contact information and give the guy a call >>
The "fifty cents worth of lead" part.....
Brother, it's just money. If we get screwed, we get screwed. God will sort it out in the end. That's his job, not ours.
With Regards,
FloridaBill >>
Why is it God's job? God didn't get screwed.
<< <i>FB - You will only be sure of that IF he passes on the suggestion to replace to set - right?
Wondercoin >>
Anyone think that people should be required to prove they are literate in order to be able to buy and sell on eBay?
<< <i>Empty your Paypal account if you already haven't done so. I went through a dispute and it seems Paypal always sides with the buyer 99% of the time. It's always scared me to sell sell unopened boxes as a buyer can claim anything and a seller has no defense to fraud. >>
I've sold a lot of these yet I share the same concerns. The buyer could say that it was an empty box and you're hosed. I've been lucky and had no problems whatsoever so far.
<< <i><< the buyer's id is: verta5953 >>
You are correct about his name.
Truth be told, as disgusted as I am about this, his feedback to this point is unblemished.
I hesitate to call him a liar. He paid immediately.
But he has never once emailed me.
His claim is supposedly that a capsule was open. But even if that were the case, it's in a sealed box.
I can't see how that reflects on me- I couldn't know that when the box was sealed.
I think that a buyer of a sealed box assumes a risk of that kind of thing happening.
If paypal says he should return the set, he can easily swap it out for a damaged set and I will have no way of verifying.
Plus since he opened the box, it obviously lowers the value. >>
For what it's worth (not much I'm sure) I'd let him know that coins arriving from the Mint with open capsules is hardly rare. I agree 100% that the buyer assumes this risk, just as we do when we buy from the Mint.
<< <i>delivery confirmation? should not an expensive package have used
signature confirmation all the time?
seems like that is being penny wise, pound foolish. russ is right about
the type of claim being filed saving your bacon.
i hope it works out for the best. good luck. >>
Registered mail requires a signature which can be obtained from the Post Office so, in essence, it is signature confirmation.
it started out bad, and will probably get worse
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>FB - You will only be sure of that IF he passes on the suggestion to replace to set - right? >>
Mitch, actually I see no responsibility on the part of the seller to replace the set. The Buyer bought a mint sealed set, knowing he may win or he may lose. It's a chance he took. To suggest that because he didn't like what he saw upon opening the set, and therefore he is entitled to return the set, is paramount to sugesting that if he had opened it and they all were 70's he should send the seller more money. A sealed set is a sealed set...
As Forrest Gump said....you never know what you will get....
FloridaBill
Wondercoin
In general there can be misunderstandings, and mistakes, but who goes out of their way to Cheat a coin dealer on the internet? And is it really cheating, or just unclear expectations. What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
Who ever said PayPal "always" sides with the buyer is wrong. I lost a case based on reasonable doubt.
Heres my story : A year ago or so I bought some , and low and behold an unsealed box showed up.
In my case, the Seller did a crappy job of sealing the box (used no packing tape whatsoever), and someone in between (post office -- who knows) must ripped it off. The coins were gone, and something that weighed about the same was put into the box. I never for a minute thought the seller was dishonest, but I did think they were at lease partially respobsible fo rbad packaging and carelessness .
Its wrong to assume the other person is crooked. And its naiive to think that you can trust everyone - especially when it comes to money. But sometimes you just have to believe that maybe the other guy is not aware of the ettiquite.
I learned my lesson the hard way, Seller: get the package sealed properly. If you are selling sealed boxes, remind them that the fact they are sealed is part of the value -- and state there is no refund if the package is opened. This way there wont be so many problems. And buyers, - - get the insurance. Pay Pal is not an automatic refund if things get fouled up in the mail.
So in this case, If I were the seller, I'd just state that the "value" of the deal was in part the mystery of not knowing the grade of the coin. In other words its a crap shoot, just like any time you buy a coin from the mint. But the difference is that the mint will take it as a return within 30 days.
<< <i>
<< <i>delivery confirmation? should not an expensive package have used
signature confirmation all the time?
seems like that is being penny wise, pound foolish. russ is right about
the type of claim being filed saving your bacon.
i hope it works out for the best. good luck. >>
Registered mail requires a signature which can be obtained from the Post Office so, in essence, it is signature confirmation. >>
But if a PayPal doofus can't verify the signature from the comfort of his cubicle the service is no good. Surely you wouldn't expect them to EVER get off of their dead ass and go check would you? Actually if you go to the P O they mostly tell you that they really aren't supposed to do that.
I just bought a high-end Barber Half through the mail and it arrived in peices. The seller made good on things, but clearly the post office messed up in this case. I don't believe this is a post office failure, but if the buyer doesn't give you any help (assuming he is trying) you don't have anything to work.
If you are a regular seller and accept Paypal, do you get any credibility for that. Good luck
<< <i>FB: Maybe it's just my 12 years on ebay always trying to keep the buyers happy. I've had a few unusual hoops to jump through in those 12 years myself. I never suggested the seller owed the buyer anything here. What I was suggesting was perhaps there was an easy way to make an unhappy buyer happy without the seller having to do very much. After all, the complaints here involved loose and opened capsules, not missing coins. But, virtually everyone here suggests this buyer is a scammer - I can see that and maybe that is the case.
Wondercoin >>
That would probably work if the seller had another set.
<< <i>Nowhere in the OP does it say that the coins were of poor quality, only that one coin was loose and one was missing half of a capsule. The sealed box may have still had a premium if it was first strike eligible. If the box was outside of ANY mint return window aren't the orig purchaser and any subsequent owners pretty much SOL? >>
A sealed box has a premium sometimes because we know the coins inside are not cherrypicked. So the buyer expected pristine coins in the capsule. Unbeknownst to anyone they had become dislodged from the capsules, banging around and resulting in what I called "poor quality". --Jerry
<< <i>I've bought many items but never sold. As the seller that just has to be frustrating. While I believe what you are saying, you don't have any proof that the box was unopened when you mailed it, and couldn't unless you video taped the whole darn transaction.
I just bought a high-end Barber Half through the mail and it arrived in peices. The seller made good on things, but clearly the post office messed up in this case. I don't believe this is a post office failure, but if the buyer doesn't give you any help (assuming he is trying) you don't have anything to work.
If you are a regular seller and accept Paypal, do you get any credibility for that. Good luck >>
Then again what proof does the buyer have to support his side? Maybe eBay needs to open some satellite offices where you send your packages to and they are opened in front of a witness. This whole deal stinks of ineptitude and the more of these one reads about, the more one gets turned off to eBay esp considering the high fees involved.
But as others have pointed out, the buyer did not contact the seller with this problem but instead went straight to PayPal. The buyer might not be a scammer, but he is not being a good customer either.
What I don't understand is why you would buy a "sealed box" unless you intend on having it graded and can get the FS designation. If this is the case then opening the box voided that possibility. Otherwise, I'd rather buy something that has been photographed so I know what I am getting and if I don't like it, I can return it. Those shipping boxes can be resealed and it is hard to detect it (because the shipper didn't do a very good job of sealing them) so I wouldn't pay more for the sealed box. I'm not saying that anyone here would do this, I'm just saying that it is possible.
If part of the value of the set is the box, then opening it will drive the value down no matter what (just like driving a new car off the lot turns it into a used car).
<< <i>
<< <i>Nowhere in the OP does it say that the coins were of poor quality, only that one coin was loose and one was missing half of a capsule. The sealed box may have still had a premium if it was first strike eligible. If the box was outside of ANY mint return window aren't the orig purchaser and any subsequent owners pretty much SOL? >>
A sealed box has a premium sometimes because we know the coins inside are not cherrypicked. So the buyer expected pristine coins in the capsule. Unbeknownst to anyone they had become dislodged from the capsules, banging around and resulting in what I called "poor quality". --Jerry >>
Platinum is very hard so I doubt the coins suffered any damage.