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premiums for silver again going down.
fc
Posts: 12,789 ✭✭✭
over at apmex we see:
100 oz (NEW - Johnson Matthey) .999 Fine Silver Bars
Any quantity only $1.19 per ounce over spot.
but interestingly enough, even the smaller 10 oz bars are:
10 oz (.999) Fine Silver Bars - (Silvertowne)
Any Quantity $1.19 per ounce over spot!
was the cause the jump up in silver by a dollar or so?
i say no. I think the frenzy of silver buying by the little guy has
basically become a trickle and apmex has to lower their prices to
keep sales steady.
On Jan 13th 2009 the same silvertown 10 ounce bar had a 2.50
cent premium! So even with silver going up a dollar plus plus ... you
will only pay 5 dollars more then Jan!
On Jan 13th the 100 ounce J&M bar had a premium of 1.29 which
has fallen also, but not as dramatically. Still falling though.
What does this mean to me? Demand is slackening. The economy
is biting into silver's demand and even the smaller purchasers are
finding out they have to pay lower premiums for brand new bars.
At the rate this is going.. i will predict .99 cent premiums on everyday
silver bars including the smaller sizes in a few short months.
Those who paid large premiums will have to have silver at 14-15 to
even consider a tiny profit. As always, dealers who buy silver will
not offer higher buy prices when premiums keep shrinking and offers
of melt for your material will become more and more common. Of course
premium material will still fetch just that, a premium.
100 oz (NEW - Johnson Matthey) .999 Fine Silver Bars
Any quantity only $1.19 per ounce over spot.
but interestingly enough, even the smaller 10 oz bars are:
10 oz (.999) Fine Silver Bars - (Silvertowne)
Any Quantity $1.19 per ounce over spot!
was the cause the jump up in silver by a dollar or so?
i say no. I think the frenzy of silver buying by the little guy has
basically become a trickle and apmex has to lower their prices to
keep sales steady.
On Jan 13th 2009 the same silvertown 10 ounce bar had a 2.50
cent premium! So even with silver going up a dollar plus plus ... you
will only pay 5 dollars more then Jan!
On Jan 13th the 100 ounce J&M bar had a premium of 1.29 which
has fallen also, but not as dramatically. Still falling though.
What does this mean to me? Demand is slackening. The economy
is biting into silver's demand and even the smaller purchasers are
finding out they have to pay lower premiums for brand new bars.
At the rate this is going.. i will predict .99 cent premiums on everyday
silver bars including the smaller sizes in a few short months.
Those who paid large premiums will have to have silver at 14-15 to
even consider a tiny profit. As always, dealers who buy silver will
not offer higher buy prices when premiums keep shrinking and offers
of melt for your material will become more and more common. Of course
premium material will still fetch just that, a premium.
0
Comments
<< <i>I agree for the most part but I do think that the spot price of silver going up did have an effect on this. >>
it very well could be. i agree your opinion on the matter is just as
valid as mine and i wish i could figure out a way to turn a gut feeling
into proof positive.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>
At the rate this is going.. i will predict .99 cent premiums on everyday
silver bars including the smaller sizes in a few short months.
>>
yes but will we be paying .99 premium over $12 spot or $15 spot?
<< <i>yes but will we be paying .99 premium over $12 spot or $15 spot? >>
I'm going with the $15.00+ spot
+1
<< <i>
<< <i>
At the rate this is going.. i will predict .99 cent premiums on everyday
silver bars including the smaller sizes in a few short months.
>>
yes but will we be paying .99 premium over $12 spot or $15 spot? >>
my opinion is lower in the next few months. I still think below 10 is
very possible in the next months.
if i am wrong though.. not many silver holders here will be upset!
<< <i>Since the premiums are down, fc you should buy a bunch of silver and flip it like you used to do. >>
the key to profits during that time was finding silver at a reasonable
price and selling it into the large premiums people were paying. Now
that anyone can find silver at lower premiums on major websites...
the chance for making 20%+ profits are not there. Ebay/paypal fees
and what have you really bite into it.
If so and at a $0.99 premium on one ounce rounds I'll be a buyin' mofo
even a generic round, below $ 16 in this town.
Lewis
<< <i>Well, the premiums are still strong at the local coin shops. You can't get an ounce of anything,
even a generic round, below $ 16 in this town.
Lewis >>
i am curious, did you ask their buy price per ounce for a 1 oz bar or 1 oz round from a somewhat
good source? that should tell you a lot about them.
now add in the recession.
families have trouble making the car and mortgage payments... they are not going to be buying silver and gold.
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
What am I missing?
Thanks
Kip
<< <i>I for one feel silver has a great chance of doubling or better Considering its low ratio Vs Gold, Its industrial use, collector value, and investors. I can fathom silver doubling to $24 before Gold to $1800 >>
ditto. Silver has shown it can do it just in recent time with that push
past 20+. Quite amazing that.
Gold in recent times struggles to get past 1050.
The prices of silver and gold are influenced by different things and even though both metals have a "monetary" component, the ratio between silver and gold prices will always change.
If you own $1000 of gold, it's almost 1 ounce, but with silver it's more like 65 ounces. Either one could have a greater % gain than the other, depending on the market circumstances. Either one could have a larger premium at any given time.
Silver's advantage is that you can divide up that $1,000 and sell off part or add to it in smaller increments a little easier than you can with gold, in general. Gold's advantage is that it's easier to carry around or move, if need be.
Which is "more valuable"? That's a moving target kind of question.
I knew it would happen.
For what it's worth SAE's at the shop I walked in to day were $19.95. 1-2 weeks ago one major regional silver player was paying close to $5 premiums for SAE's.
Gold in recent times struggles to get past 1050
This is overlooking the forest for the trees. Considering that we're in a deep economic hole where stocks and many other assets are still down 30-50% or more, it's actually incredible that gold, a useless barbaric relic with "no function" in the high tech 21st century, is within 12-13% of all time highs. Even the US dollar is still 29% off it's highs of the past 8 years.
roadrunner
Kip
<< <i>Why buy silver. Why not save and buy gold? Will not gold probably end up more valuable? Maybe I just can't grasp this.
What am I missing?
Thanks
Kip >>
Silver is down much more than gold, with silver down about 40% from its highs, and gold only about 12%, platinum down 50%. Some are speculating that the elevator up will be similar, and silver will do much better on the way up, but there are no guarantees.
dealers do not lower the premium because the cost of the bullion is higher. I dont see any business sense in that, do you?
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
The premium is of course from supply/demand but it does seem to fall with higher prices.
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i>The premiums may be shrinking, but SPOT is now over what I bought my ASE's, Maple Leafs, Philharmonics and JM Bars at the end of last year. Just some perspective. >>
And just how does this make you feel
<< <i>
And just how does this make you feel
$ 4 over spot ($ 17 each) It can't be had any cheaper anywhere in this region (within a couple hundred miles)
so It was a buy . Lower grade Morgans and Peace were $ 16.50 each, and I heard him say he had
a major dealer buying them at $ 15 each .
Lewis
premiums on the 100 oz JM bar by 10 cents. The smaller bars are sold out. Obviously
when they come back, in my opinion, the premium will be raised on those also. Time
will tell.
This is the exact opposite of what some thought would happen when silver prices
rose that the premium would begin to shrink. In my opinion, the dumb buyers flock
in when it starts rising and fight over silver all at once giving the sellers the opportunity
to raise their prices.
Price goes up, demand goes up. premiums up.
Price goes down, demand goes down. premiums down.
that is the pattern I am seeing for now. to me this is the height of stupidity when buying
metals. to flock in when the frenzied buyers all want some.
moneyLA is seeing the pattern i see.
<< <i>My feeling about the silver premium---- I think it will increase if demand for silver increases. So a rise in the price of silver and a rise in the premium for silver go hand in hand.
>>
Price goes down, demand goes down. premiums down.
Depends on the true availability which obviously no one seems to know because there are clearly 2 camps on what true supplies are. Is there a silver shortage or isn't there? Can all the comex long contracts be paid off with real silver from somewhere or can't they? Obviously if there is inadequate silver at some point to fill orders, there is no choice but for premiums to keep rising and rising and rising. But the silver experts here on the forum keep telling us there is no shortage, never has been, and never will be.....so I know that is not a possibility.
The height of stupidty is not buying the metals (or anything else for that matter) while they are still available. If silver gets to numbers like $50/oz, or $100/oz like I think it will, all the flipping for a buck or two an ounce will pale in comparison to those that just bought it at $8-$15 and sat on it. My original posts on silver premiums shrinking were associated with silver at levels of $18-$20+ per ounce. At still well under $15/oz we are still merely in one of those MoneyLA "trading ranges."
I say as the price of silver drops right now, you'll see premiums rise. The people that just bought silver because they needed it aren't going to be selling it just because it gets $1 to $4 cheaper. The paper price is falling but you won't see fresh supplies of rounds/small bars showing up to fill it. The physical prices will stay much closer to what they have been while the paper price drops. Isn't that exactly the scenario that occured in 2008? (ie paper price goes down, supplies shrink, premiums rise).
Price goes down, demand goes down. premiums down.
Depends on the true availability which obviously no one seems to know because there are clearly 2 camps on what true supplies are. Is there a silver shortage or isn't there? Can all the comex long contracts be paid off with real silver from somewhere or can't they? Obviously if there is inadequate silver at some point to fill orders, there is no choice but for premiums to keep rising and rising and rising. But the silver experts here on the forum keep telling us there is no shortage, never has been, and never will be.....so I know that is not a possibility.
-------------
i would say there is no silver shortage due to the amount of large bars available for purchase.
i have no idea what the large super warehouses have in them.. i am just going by what i see available
for sale at the usual haunts.
one could argue convincingly that there is a shortage of smaller investment units.. in sizes from 1 oz to 50 oz.
but not actual silver in all shapes and forms. a shortage means to me that you have a hard time locating some
to even buy in any shape or form. not just some odd sizes for smaller investors.
------------------
The height of stupidty is not buying the metals (or anything else for that matter) while they are still available. If silver gets to numbers like $50/oz, or $100/oz like I think it will, all the flipping for a buck or two an ounce will pale in comparison to those that just bought it at $8-$15 and sat on it. My original posts on silver premiums shrinking were associated with silver at levels of $18-$20+ per ounce. At still well under $15/oz we are still merely in one of those MoneyLA "trading ranges."
-----------
we differ on this opinion and essentially everyone has their own thoughts.
--------
I say as the price of silver drops right now, you'll see premiums rise. The people that just bought silver because they needed it aren't going to be selling it just because it gets $1 to $4 cheaper. The paper price is falling but you won't see fresh supplies of rounds/small bars showing up to fill it. The physical prices will stay much closer to what they have been while the paper price drops. Isn't that exactly the scenario that occured in 2008? (ie paper price goes down, supplies shrink, premiums rise).
-------
well the way it has been going the last months is that when silver was going down... people
lost interest in it and inventory sat at the usual haunts to buy at. thus premiums went down.
when silver goes up people get all excited and want to hop on the train.. and they fight over
what is in stock and the sellers can raise their prices.
the current premiums are nothing like 4 months ago. they have not gone up that much.
once excitement dies down and silver sticks in a trading range, frenzied buyers get their fill,
premiums will again drop in my opinion.
---
i am just updating this thread as time goes by. i find it interesting watching just how much
people are willing to pay over spot when over exuberance, fear, and greed get involved.
one has to wonder why everyone did not get their fill at 10 an ounce a few months ago?
why not? it was not sexy at the time. it was falling.
it truly seems people like to buy when it already has gone up a large percentage move. odd that.
It depends on whether or not the dealer has to compete for business. If he can't get supply for a bunch of orders, he will raise his bids and he will raise his prices, whether or not the spot price goes up or down.
Usually premiums shrink when the volatility decreases.
Exactly right. When the market is boring, the premiums shrink and sometimes go negative (below spot).
Price goes up, demand goes up. premiums up.
Price goes down, demand goes down. premiums down.
Not necessarily. Premiums were shrinking in early 2008 when I bought my last green monster box as prices were spiking. The premiums have doubled since then.
I knew it would happen.
This is a trader's mentality. They wait for a verified turn, and then jump in it. Most will not hop on to catch a falling knife or grab the first turn only to find out it was a false move. They want proof the market is for real and has legs. Hence they wait quite a while. Even MoneyLA has said that he would not re-enter the gold market (assuming he was inclined to re-enter at some point) until it has proven itself by exceeding the former high. Hence you give up some early gains to be assured of being on one of the major legs up.
I'm not sure who the main end-user silver buyers are at $14.50/oz but my guess would be impulsive types such as those buying from HSN, Coin Vault, etc. The shops weren't getting the silver in. So whoever the final retail buyers were they must have been buying it elsewhere.
roadrunner
As low as $1.09 per ounce over melt value!
APMEX continues to slowly lower premiums on silver.
<< <i>Just not on the good bars. >>
yes, ohio PMs are not NYMEX deliverable.. so it could be considered not as good
as others. But you really do not to define what is good or bad to assist in the
conversation. One cannot only consider JM and Engelhard as good when the smaller
bars are not even being fabricated anymore.
Here is the list of NYMEX deliverable companies.
-----------------------
ASARCO Incorporated Amarillo, Texas ASAT ASARCO SILVER - AMARILLO, TEXAS
ASARCO Incorporated Baltimore, MD ASBA * ASARCO BALTIMORE, MARYLAND
ASARCO Incorporated Perth Amboy, NJ ASCP * AS & R CO. - PERTH AMBOY, N.J.
ASARCO Incorporated Perth Amboy, NJ ASPA * ASARCO-PERTH AMBOY, NEW JERSEY
ASARCO Incorporated Selby, CA SGSR * SELBY GOLD & SILVER REFINERY, SAN FRANCISCO, CAL.
Britannia Refined Metals Co. Northfleet, England BLCO BLCo.
Broken Hill Associated Smelters Pty. Ltd. Port Pirie, Australia BHAS BHAS
Cerro de Pasco Corporation La Oroya, Peru CDPP * C de P PERU
Cominco Ltd. Trail, British Columbia TADA TADANAC
Compania de Real Monte y Pachuca Pachuca, Mexico RDMM R del M
Comptoir Lyon-Alemand Louyot Noisy le Sec, France CLAP * COMPTOIR-LYON-ALEMAND, LOUYOT & CIE-PARIS
Comptoir Lyon-Alemand Louyot Noisy le Sec, France CLAL COMPTOIR-LYON-ALEMAND, LOUYOT-PARIS
Dowa Mining Co., Ltd. Kosaka City, Japan DOWA DOWA (with crossed hammers within circle)
Empresa Minera del Peru SA La Oroya, Peru CPPE CP-PERU
Engelhard Corporation Chessington, England ENCI * ENGELHARD LONDON
Engelhard Corporation Carteret, NJ ENNE * ENGELHARD
Engelhard Corporation Ivry, France ECMP * ENGELHARD (with Compagnie Des Metaux Precieux-Paris within an oval)
Furukawa Metals Co., Ltd. Nikko City, Japan TRIA OPEN TRIANGLE (like letter A, brand name "Yamaichi")
Golden West Refining Corporation Limited, Handy & Harman Refining Group, Inc. Attleboro, MA GWHH * HH HANDY & HARMAN REFINING
Handy & Harman Attleboro, MA HAND * HH HANDY & HARMAN SILVER
Handy & Harman Fairfield, CT HARM * HH HANDY & HARMAN SILVER (with capital letter F bars produced at Fairfield, Conn.)
INCO Limited Sudbury, Ontario ORCO ORC
Industrial Minera Mexico SA Monterrey, Mexico ASMO * ASARCO-MONTERREY
Industrial Minera Mexico SA Monterrey, Mexico IMMM IMM-MONTERREY
Johnson Matthey Chemicals, Ltd. Royston, England JMLO * JOHNSON MATTHEY LONDON
Johnson Matthey Chemicals, Ltd. Royston, England JMCF * JMCF
Johnson Matthey Limited Brampton, Ontario JMLT JM and crossed hammers in diamond surrounded by JOHNSON MATTHEY CANADA
Johnson Matthey Limited Brampton, Ontario JMJM * JOHNSON MATTHEY-JM (with crossed hammers and assay stamp: JM LTD.-CANADA-ASSAY OFFICE)
Johnson Matthey Limited Brampton, Ontario JMCA * JM (with crossed hammers)
Johnson Matthey Limited Brampton, Ontario JMMC * J.M. & M. Ltd.
Johnson Matthey Refining, Inc. Salt Lake City, UT JMRI JOHNSON MATTHEY-JM (with crossed hammers and assay stamp:J.M.R.I.-U.S.A.-ASSAY OFFICE)
Kam-Kotia Mines, Ltd. Cobalt, Ontario CRKO * CRK
Kennecott Corporation Magna, UT KUEU * KUE
KGHM HG Polska Miedz Lubin, Poland KGHM KGHM HG
Met-Mex Penoles, SA de CV Monterrey, Mexico MPSA * METALURGICA MEXICANA PENOLES S.A.
Met-Mex Penoles, SA de CV Torreon, Mexico POPM PRODUCT OF PENOLES MEXICO
Metalli Preziosi S.p.A. Milan, Italy MPSP METALLI PREZIOSI S.p.A. MILANO (with MP)
Metalor Precieux SA Metalor Neuchatel, Switzerland MPOR METAUX PRECIEUX SA METALOR (in a circle with letters MP in center)
Metalor Technologies USA Corp. N. Attleboro, MA MUST METALOR® (with "MUS" assay mark)
Metalor Technologies USA Corp. N. Attleboro, MA META * METAUX PRECIEUX SA METALOR (in a circle with letters MUS in center)
Mitsubishi Materials Corporation Kagawa, Japan DIAM Three diamonds forming a triangle
No. 1 Mining Corporation Namtu, Burma BRMA BURMA MINES
Noranda Metallurgy, Inc. – Copper Montreal East, Quebec CCRL CCR CANADA
Norddeutsche Affinerie A.G. Hamburg, W. Germany NAHA NORDDEUTSCHE AFFINERIE HAMBURG
PAMP S.A. Castel San Pietro, Switzerland PAMP PAMP
PGP Industries, Inc. Duncan, SC PGPI PGP
Rand Refinery Limited Germiston, Transvaal RRSA RAND REFINERY LTD. (with RR Ltd. on underside)
Rudarsko Metalursko Hemijski Kombinat, Trepca Zvecan, Yugoslavia TREP TREPCA
Sabin Metal Corporation Scottsville, NY SABN SMC
Sheffield Smelting Co., Ltd. Sheffield, England SSCL * THE SHEFFIELD SMELTING CO. LTD.
The Anaconda Company Perth Amboy, NJ UMCO * UMS CO.
The Bunker Hill Company Kellogg, ID HILL * BUNKER HILL
U.S. Smelting, Refining & Mining East Chicago, IL USSC * USSCO
Umicore AG & Co. KG Hanau, Germany DEGU * DEGUSSA (with 1/2 sun and 1/4 moon within diamond)
Umicore AG & Co. KG South Plainfield, NJ METZ * DEGUSSA (with 1/2 sun and 1/4 moon within diamond, also Metz est. 1921)
United States Assay Office Denver, Colorado USDE * SEAL OF UNITED STATES (with year and location of production)
United States Assay Office New York, NY USNY * SEAL OF UNITED STATES (with year and location of production)
United States Assay Office Philadelphia, PA USPH * SEAL OF UNITED STATES (with year and location of production)
United States Assay Office San Francisco, CA USSF * SEAL OF UNITED STATES (with year and location of production)
United States Metals Refining Co., a division of Amax Copper, Inc. Carteret, NJ DRW * DRW
Zaklady Metalurginczne Trzebinia Trzebinia, Poland ZTMP ZTM
n.v. Union Miniere s.a. – Business Unit Hoboken Hoboken, Belgium MHOV * HOBOKEN 999.7+
n.v. Union Miniere s.a. – Business Unit Hoboken Hoboken, Belgium HOBN HOBOKEN 999+
"Even MoneyLA has said that he would not re-enter the gold market (assuming he was inclined to re-enter at some point) until it has proven itself by exceeding the former high."
Yes, I did say that, and I wrote about that plan continuously in my web site.
And the strategy paid off.
A week or so ago, gold was at $1,000 again but failed to keep moving up-- so it was another rally failure. And gold this morning is down to about $910, a loss of $90 an ounce.
When gold has PROVEN that it is back in a bull run, I will buy gold again. Until then, it is in a trading range.
If you want to trade a "trading range" be my guest.
but just as I did several years ago, I want to buy gold when it breaks out and goes on a bull run... not when it is in a trading range that can "whipsaw" you to death.
thanks
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
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<< <i>generic 100 oz bars are .99 over spot per ounce at apmex. >>
100 oz Silver Bars .999 Fine - The Wall Street Mint
Any quantity, only $0.99 per ounce over melt value!
i do not consider the wall street mint to be quite so generic anymore.
I prefer to be the saw rather than the whip. Making out on a $300/oz run since November was a nice move. The $90 "loss" you just refered to was a nice opportunity to buy some miners at 38-50% discounts. Most are already back up 10% in the past few days.
Oddly, the generic gold hardly saw any of that $90 "loss." In fact, many of those coins, including the higher grade $20's held fast or gained a bit. Be careful about painting a wide brush with negative gold influence. If you don't buy in when things look the darkest, then you do present yourself with whip-sawing.
This bull market has the potential to let you back in at $1200-$1500 at some point only to throw you back to $1000 or possibly lower. I'd much rather hop on board at cheap levels and see where it goes. I'd hate to see people hot in at $1100 (gold bull confirmed) only to see it go to $1200 and then right back to $950. As usual, most of the new bulls who get on board in the $1050+ range, will be easily tossed off at $1200, $1400, etc. They will either get scared off and sell on the first dip, or try to time it to re-enter and miscalculate: witness Nadler's Nerds still trying to buy back in at $600-$650 since August 2007. They might still be trying to buy back in at 2017.
I don't know about that 99c over spot. At a local show Sunday the 2 major silver dealers were paying $1450 for Englehard 100 oz bars and selling them for $1550 (about 20% over spot). Maybe APMEX should have been selling to them. It didn't appear that anyone else was.
roadrunner
I guess generic may not have been where to put your money when prices were down.
1 ounce generic bars have a premium as low as 1.19 an ounce for
mixed stuff. If you want to be somewhat choosey by maker the price
goes up. 1.29-1.99.
10 ounce bars, generic but a name brand to me, has a premium as low as 1.29 per ounce.
100 ounce bars have dropped down, for a generic name brand bar,
to .89 cents an ounce.
and for the players.. a 1000 ounce bar has a premium dropping to .49 cents per ounce.
this is basically what i have expected to happen. Prices are coming
down very fast. paying large premiums for silver is not a good idea
at all.
<< <i>once again premium prices are dropping if you look at apmex.
1 ounce generic bars have a premium as low as 1.19 an ounce for
mixed stuff. If you want to be somewhat choosey by maker the price
goes up. 1.29-1.99.
10 ounce bars, generic but a name brand to me, has a premium as low as 1.29 per ounce.
100 ounce bars have dropped down, for a generic name brand bar,
to .89 cents an ounce.
and for the players.. a 1000 ounce bar has a premium dropping to .49 cents per ounce.
this is basically what i have expected to happen. Prices are coming
down very fast. paying large premiums for silver is not a good idea
at all. >>
And when you sell it back you'll take one big hit too. The buy/sell ratio is more important than 2 cents over spot on items no one wants or anen't sure they are pure. As prices rise the good stuff may just bring spot but you'll get more than killed on the no name stuff just like the 80's.
<< <i>
<< <i>once again premium prices are dropping if you look at apmex.
1 ounce generic bars have a premium as low as 1.19 an ounce for
mixed stuff. If you want to be somewhat choosey by maker the price
goes up. 1.29-1.99.
10 ounce bars, generic but a name brand to me, has a premium as low as 1.29 per ounce.
100 ounce bars have dropped down, for a generic name brand bar,
to .89 cents an ounce.
and for the players.. a 1000 ounce bar has a premium dropping to .49 cents per ounce.
this is basically what i have expected to happen. Prices are coming
down very fast. paying large premiums for silver is not a good idea
at all. >>
And when you sell it back you'll take one big hit too. The buy/sell ratio is more important than 2 cents over spot on items no one wants or anen't sure they are pure. As prices rise the good stuff may just bring spot but you'll get more than killed on the no name stuff just like the 80's. >>
As I type this silver is 12.97.
If you want engelhard 1 oz bars you will pay right now 17.55 each.
Their buy price is 15.01. Leaving us a spread of 2.54.
Now lets look at the generic crap as we shall call it. The sell price is 14.55 per ounce with a buy price of 13.01. Leaving us a spread of
1.54.
I am afraid based on APMEX info that your comments are not true for
a few reasons.
When I say generic for the most part i mean sunshine, nwt, silvertowne, apmex. Hardly bottom of the barrel crap. Please also notice
that the comparison I made above used bottom of the barrel crap.
You are confusing my very generous terminology of referring to the
above names as generic so I do not get into an argument with the
engelhard or JM only for me crowd. Which still always pops up around
here.
So if you wish to tie up an extra dollar of capital to buy engelhard when
you could be making money with it.. so be it! I consider that an unwise
move and stereotypical of older timers saying get off my lawn you
young whippersnappers.
engelhard no longer makes silver bars.
JM does, but only larger sizes.
eventually old timers ideas of generic will have to change with the times. Sunshine, NWT, APMEX, Silvertowne, and etc... are no longer
considered generic. They are considered trustworthy and easily identifiable and liquid.
So maybe, just maybe, i am misunderstanding what you mean by no name. No name to me is a gecko bar. Not a company that supplies
blanks to the US mint and also stamps out bars. Other crap items wil
be franklin mint stuff, odd santa claus rounds, etc.. Hardly the items
I am mentioning above like APMEX 100 ounce bars for 89 cents over spot.
I hope I made my point clear and concise.
Premiums are dropping and anyone paying multiple dollar premiums
is making a bad move in my mind. Only in hysteric timeframes will such
premiums exist. In normal times.. the spread narrows right down.
If you can get JM and Engelhard for a few pennies more per ounce do it! But based on what I have seen.. you are just wasting capital
that could be making money when you pay ridiculous premiums.
But some level of premium will always be there. It's baked into the cake. There's always been a premium, even if it changes over time. Even if silver hits $50, there will still be a slight premium for the better name stuff.
<< <i>Actually it depends on the dealer and spread are all over the place but mark my word PM's take off and it will change fast. In my area the majar PM's have a better spread than the generics. >>
please define what non generic bullion is.
i assume you mean engelhard, JM, ASEs, and ???
<< <i>Obviously the premiums for brand name silver change over time.
But some level of premium will always be there. It's baked into the cake. There's always been a premium, even if it changes over time. Even if silver hits $50, there will still be a slight premium for the better name stuff. >>
I was not old enough to experience the mad rush for silver 20 some
years ago and that seems to be the only time frame to compare to.
But i do agree with you that premiums are always changing and based
on what i have learned they were unnaturally high the last 6 months
and are steadily declining. Now we even see "sales".
Once the hysteria dies down and metals stick in a normal trading range i expect further declines.