Hopefully you still have your proper shipping paperwork and paypal will give you your money back. I once called and asked them if there was a time limit on how far back a person could do a chargeback and they told me it depends on the credit card company but they have seen them go back a year or more I asked this question because I was wondering how long I should save all of my shipping receipts.
If I recall, about a year or two ago, Ira Stein (board handle is IraS4) went through this as well and what Russ stated was what was happening it appeared.
The mistake that Ira made, as he told folks on the Registry Forum about this, was in accepting ANYTHING from the slimeball. Try to find Ira's post (he doesn't post much, so it shouldn't be too hard) about it and maybe contact him and see what he went through and may suggest. He's a pretty nice guy, from my dealings with him.
Everyone seems to be beating around the bush. Call the buyer and demand that he return the coins-all 61 of them or you will file theft charges. If they don't answer send a certified letter to continue a paper trail.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>This guy bought a BIN of (61) 2008 w ASE's @ 23.95 each...............on 5/2/08...yes.....8 months ago.
Details: A chargeback has been filed against this transaction. The buyer indicated to their card issuer that the goods or services purchased were either damaged or not as described.
How in the world could 61 2008 w ASE's be damaged or not as described? Did you find out the particulars on the complaint? Was the buyer totally silent prior to the chargeback? >>
Sewer Rats can do some damage.
I am sorry for the nonsense you are going through SUMORada that just plain sucks. Fight it till the end my friend. I would even get your local news station involved, maybe a little pressure on this CC Company might make them think twice about their dealings with Card Holders. Could you wonder if this news got out and some crooks opened new CC accts with the CC company boy things would get out of hand quickly.
What was the Credit Card company may I ask? I will be sure to put on my ebay auction PAYPAL only with bank funds or anyone except?
I would suggest that you also have your attorney obtain a full D & B report on this business, and then bring the circumstances to the attention of the Attorney General of Georgia. This company may have a track record of this type of activity, which could rise to the level of conspiracy to commit fraud. Or, you could promise to make the trip from Tampa Bay to Duluth to pickup the unsatisfactory product at the address below, which is residential. Looks like a husband and wife "team" between the two businesses linked to the eBay ID. The eBay ID that you provided, liquidationdealers, is apparently registered by this company: CyberVision, Inc. 3339 Benthollow Ln. Duluth, GA 30096 404-441-4480 Same address given for DZiner Apparel Co.
NOT!! PAYPAL TOOK FUNDS DIRECTLY FROM MY BANK ACCOUNT WITH ANY EXPLICIT AUTHORIZATION TO COVER THE BALANCE!!! I came very close to bouncing my mortgage check as a result
That must have been at least 3 years ago, paypal can no longer do that.
<< <i>NOT!! PAYPAL TOOK FUNDS DIRECTLY FROM MY BANK ACCOUNT WITH ANY EXPLICIT AUTHORIZATION TO COVER THE BALANCE!!! I came very close to bouncing my mortgage check as a result
That must have been at least 3 years ago, paypal can no longer do that.
Steve >>
or another fable ... PayPal cannot touch your linked account w/o a court order or judgment against you...Period...end of story .
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
With the auctions I have up they will get the rest in a couple days, there is nothing I can do about that , I'm just working on getting this low life and getting my $$$ back.
Thanks for the name of the scum, blocked, good luck in getting your money returned. I think with the way the economy is going there will be many more crooks trying to work ebay.
This kinda stuff makes you not want to list anything on Ebay period. I'm not a dealer but I occasionally list a coin or two. I don't want to have to worry about someone doing a chargeback six months down the road. I never keep a balance in my PP acct. anymore after hearing about this kind of stuff.
Removing your money from paypal does not relieve you from the claim. Paypal will just start calling you to "make good" on the amount that they claim you owe. In the end i made payment just to save the hassle of being reported/sued whatever. It is sad that slimeballs can do this, but it is just the cost of doing business.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>With the auctions I have up they will get the rest in a couple days, there is nothing I can do about that , I'm just working on getting this low life and getting my $$$ back. >>
Another reason to have two ebay and two paypal accounts. With a second paypal account you could revise your existing listing to send payment to other paypal account.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>Removing your money from paypal does not relieve you from the claim. Paypal will just start calling you to "make good" on the amount that they claim you owe. In the end i made payment just to save the hassle of being reported/sued whatever. It is sad that slimeballs can do this, but it is just the cost of doing business. >>
Getting sued is an opportunity for the facts to be presented in a court of law.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>Removing your money from paypal does not relieve you from the claim. Paypal will just start calling you to "make good" on the amount that they claim you owe. In the end i made payment just to save the hassle of being reported/sued whatever. It is sad that slimeballs can do this, but it is just the cost of doing business. >>
Getting sued is an opportunity for the facts to be presented in a court of law. >>
Plus I would rather have the money in my pocket and them trying to get it rather than the reverse
<< <i>I got a chargeback this morning in my paypal account for over $ 1400.00........
This guy bought a BIN of (61) 2008 w ASE's @ 23.95 each...............on 5/2/08...yes.....8 months ago.
His ID is " liquidationdealers " The buyer left this feedback after the purchase........"Great seller. Just as described and great value. A++++++
Any suggestions on the best way to handle this would be appreciated.
This is from paypal...
Details: A chargeback has been filed against this transaction. The buyer indicated to their card issuer that the goods or services purchased were either damaged or not as described.
Ultimately, it is the card issuer’s decision whether the buyer’s chargeback is valid. If you believe that this chargeback is unwarranted, PayPal’s team of chargeback specialists would like to help you put together a case to submit to the card issuer. This expert assistance is one of the unique benefits of using PayPal.
To begin responding to this chargeback, click the "Resolve" button below.
While this case is being investigated, we have placed a temporary hold on the disputed funds.
Response deadline: Please respond within 10 calendar days of the filing date of this chargeback. >>
JUST UFB!! When is a transaction ever really closed in the eyes of Ebay/PayPal????? Where does it end? Thanks for warning us about this buyer who is BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>JUST UFB!! When is a transaction ever really closed in the eyes of Ebay/PayPal????? Where does it end? Thanks for warning us about this buyer who is BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Ok, Russ has alluded to this several times, but people either can't or won't get it:
THIS IS NOT A PAYPAL PROBLEM.
The problem is that the buyer is doing a fraudulent chargeback THROUGH HIS CREDIT CARD COMPANY.
If the OP had a merchant credit card account instead of PayPal, he STILL would be susceptible to this.
If you want to blame the credit card companies for allowing this, fine.
If you want to blame eBay for forcing sellers to either use PayPal or a credit card merchant account, fine.
You can't blame PayPal on this one; they're just the middleman, and if you read the OP, you'll see that PayPal is willing to assist him.
C'mon people, get off the PAYPALISEVILMOFG! bandwagon. Sheesh...
<< <i>Sorry about your difficulty. I've never understood why people would leave money in their paypal accounts when there have been many stories of this nature (although not this long).
PayPal just seems like a scheme that needs to be taken down. >>
Do you have to have money left in your PayPal account for a chargeback or, I would guess, if you don't that they would simply charge your card or debit your bank account. I hope never to find out, but with dirtbag buyers like the one in this thread, no transaction seems immune.
<< <i>JUST UFB!! When is a transaction ever really closed in the eyes of Ebay/PayPal????? Where does it end? Thanks for warning us about this buyer who is BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Ok, Russ has alluded to this several times, but people either can't or won't get it:
THIS IS NOT A PAYPAL PROBLEM.
The problem is that the buyer is doing a fraudulent chargeback THROUGH HIS CREDIT CARD COMPANY.
If the OP had a merchant credit card account instead of PayPal, he STILL would be susceptible to this.
If you want to blame the credit card companies for allowing this, fine.
If you want to blame eBay for forcing sellers to either use PayPal or a credit card merchant account, fine.
You can't blame PayPal on this one; they're just the middleman, and if you read the OP, you'll see that PayPal is willing to assist him.
C'mon people, get off the PAYPALISEVILMOFG! bandwagon. Sheesh... >>
Yes, coinpics., I stand corrected on this. I have to admit that I read the frist couple of posts on the thread, got angry, and responded before reading the remaining posts and learning that PayPal was not (entirely) at fault.
Very informative thread: I now know, among other things, to save my shipping reciepts for at least two years. I had been shredding them after pos. fb received.
<< <i>If the OP had a merchant credit card account instead of PayPal, he STILL would be susceptible to this. >>
If the OP had a merchant credit card account, he could talk to the credit card company about the problem- after all, he'd be their customer, too. As it is, when you accept a PayPal payment, you have no way of contacting the buyer's cc company to explain your side of the transaction.
IMHO, Paypal/ebay is more than a middleman in these transitions. They charged and collected their monies coming and going, the seller did not collect payment from buyers credit card company, paypal did. The buyer in this case posted a positive response that he was happy with his goods, the seller collected his money and paypal/ebay made their cut. Paypal/ebay has much more pull than the poor seller on ebay, when positive feedback is posted the deal should be done and paypal should be the one to refuse the credit cards request for a chargeback. They have the power to do it and could go up against the credit card companies, especially when they have proof from the buyer such as his posting of positive feedback.
<< <i>JUST UFB!! When is a transaction ever really closed in the eyes of Ebay/PayPal????? Where does it end? Thanks for warning us about this buyer who is BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Ok, Russ has alluded to this several times, but people either can't or won't get it:
THIS IS NOT A PAYPAL PROBLEM.
The problem is that the buyer is doing a fraudulent chargeback THROUGH HIS CREDIT CARD COMPANY.
. >>
Hogwash. Paypal is a party to this transaction and should cover this under their so-called "seller protection" policy that also forces sellers to waste money on Signature Confirmation on Registered Mail packages. If the seller complies with requirements of the Seller Protection policy, then Paypal/Ebay should cover the loss and go after the buyer.
Agree. Paypal needs to do something once in awhile to earn their fees to include defending honest sellers. Paypal needs to fight the CC company against this fraudulent chargeback.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Respond to the dispute explaining that it was 8 months, also copy and paste feedback. Then wait 24 hours and call PayPal and talk to a real person. 888-221-1161. Since he left positive feedback they should release the funds. Also, check the buyer's feedback and email other sellers and see if you can find 2 others that he is doing same to. Then tell PayPal about it, referencing name and phone numbers or email addresses.
Have bought and sold on BST, many references available when asked.
<< <i>With the auctions I have up they will get the rest in a couple days, there is nothing I can do about that , I'm just working on getting this low life and getting my $$$ back. >>
You could close and cancel all your outstanding auctions so that no new money comes in.
Advanced collector of BREWERIANA. Early beer advertising (beer cans, tap knobs, foam scrapers, trays, tin signs, lithos, paper, etc)....My first love...U.S. COINS!
See forms 8829 and 4684 on your schedule C/1040 when filing with the IRS. Also file a police report, and/ or see your tax consultant.(Loss/Theft) You can fight the fight as well through pay pal and ebay if your time is worth the money. Either way, the burden is on you. Sad to say, but it sounds like a thief is getting away with the goods while you are faced with red tape and a real monetary loss.
Everyone seems to be beating around the bush. Call the buyer and demand that he return the coins-all 61 of them or you will file theft charges. If they don't answer send a certified letter to continue a paper trail. >>
I wonder if the silver value of these 61 ASE's went down significantly since they were bought in May of 2008?
Advanced collector of BREWERIANA. Early beer advertising (beer cans, tap knobs, foam scrapers, trays, tin signs, lithos, paper, etc)....My first love...U.S. COINS!
<< <i><< If the OP had a merchant credit card account instead of PayPal, he STILL would be susceptible to this. >>
If the OP had a merchant credit card account, he could talk to the credit card company about the problem >>
True, but it wouldn't matter. A SNAD claim is just as difficult to win even when dealing directly with the merchant processing company.
<< <i>Hogwash. Paypal is a party to this transaction and should cover this under their so-called "seller protection" policy that also forces sellers to waste money on Signature Confirmation on Registered Mail packages >>
There is also no protection provided for SNAD claims through a merchant processing service. In other words, had the OP accepted a credit card directly and this happened, he'd be in the same boat. On their end, PayPal has to deal with the policies established by the credit card issuers. They have no choice.
Again, this is not PayPal. This is a slimeball in collusion with his card issuer.
<< <i>JUST UFB!! When is a transaction ever really closed in the eyes of Ebay/PayPal????? Where does it end? Thanks for warning us about this buyer who is BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Ok, Russ has alluded to this several times, but people either can't or won't get it:
THIS IS NOT A PAYPAL PROBLEM.
The problem is that the buyer is doing a fraudulent chargeback THROUGH HIS CREDIT CARD COMPANY.
. >>
Hogwash. Paypal is a party to this transaction and should cover this under their so-called "seller protection" policy that also forces sellers to waste money on Signature Confirmation on Registered Mail packages. If the seller complies with requirements of the Seller Protection policy, then Paypal/Ebay should cover the loss and go after the buyer. >>
Directly from PayPal seller protection policy:
What's not covered Items picked up locally or delivered in person Services, intangible items, and digital goods Claims and chargebacks where the buyer says that the shipped item is significantly not as described
Clearly this crook was taking advantage of the last sentence, which would seem to give a clever crook liscense to do a chargeback on anything.
What is the burden of the buyer to proove that the item is not as described?? A crook could say this about anything, just as was done here.
<< <i>Again, this is not PayPal. This is a slimeball in collusion with his card issuer. >>
Agreed and this IS the bottom line. As such, he should be dealt with accordingly as should PayPal.
Frankly, I am surprised that with all the Attorneys at Law that are members here - not ONE has stepped forth to provide legal opinion as to the correct way to blow this whole thing wide open!
This buyer need to be prosecuted for Fraud etc and PayPal should be sued as well.
In plain layman English ... this is Bull she-it and heads should roll.
This fiasco presents the opportunity to send a message - a precedent, loud & clear so that this NEVER happens AGAIN!
Legal counsel, Law Enforcement, Attorneys General & the FTC etc should ALL be made aware of such activity & burn some serious rear ends.
<< <i>What is the burden of the buyer to proove that the item is not as described?? >>
Unfortunately, in eCommerce, (non swiped transactions), the burden of proof is on the seller. It's always been this way. The card issuers, as well as the law, favor the buyer.
<< <i>What's not covered Items picked up locally or delivered in person Services, intangible items, and digital goods Claims and chargebacks where the buyer says that the shipped item is significantly not as described >>
That last item produces a loophole so wide you can drive a Mack truck through it.
Is there ANY way a seller can protect themselves against the last line here? Seems like any slimeball can claim SNAD and no amount of dotting the i's and crossing the t's to be protected by Seller Protection will matter.
Well, turnabout is fair play. The perp is registered at eBay as liquidationdealers. I wonder how many CC purchases of his eBay items with subsequent SNAD claims that it would take to knock some sense into his slimey head?
Tavern Treasures: "I wonder if the silver value of these 61 ASE's went down significantly since they were bought in May of 2008? "
Of course it has. Silver was about $7/oz. higher in May of 2008 than it is right now. But the present premium on 1 oz. A.S.E.'s narrows that difference by a substantial amount. That does not justify the scam being attempted here regardless.
BTW, in the event PayPal should award this joker his money back, doesn't it stand to reason that he should return all of them? If so then the original seller can then declare that what was returned is SNAD! Not the same merchandise, at all.
<< <i>With the auctions I have up they will get the rest in a couple days, there is nothing I can do about that , I'm just working on getting this low life and getting my $$$ back. >>
You could close and cancel all your outstanding auctions so that no new money comes in. >>
Most of us like new money coming in. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. --Jerry
<< <i>True, but it wouldn't matter. A SNAD claim is just as difficult to win even when dealing directly with the merchant processing company. >>
No doubt it would be difficult, but not impossible.
If I was having a problem with a buyer, I'd prefer being able to actually talk to the cc company myself (especially if I had a merchant account with them) instead of trusting PayPal to do anything for me. But then, that's just me... YMMV.
Comments
If I recall, about a year or two ago, Ira Stein (board handle is IraS4) went through this as well and what Russ stated was what was happening it appeared.
The mistake that Ira made, as he told folks on the Registry Forum about this, was in accepting ANYTHING from the slimeball. Try to find Ira's post (he doesn't post much, so it shouldn't be too hard) about it and maybe contact him and see what he went through and may suggest. He's a pretty nice guy, from my dealings with him.
Best of luck to you on this.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
The USPS keeps delivery confirmation online for 6 months and available (archived) for two years.
<< <i>Have you called PAYPAL and EBAY yet
Everyone seems to be beating around the bush. Call the buyer and demand that he return the coins-all 61 of them or you will file theft charges. If they don't answer send a certified letter to continue a paper trail.
<< <i>This guy bought a BIN of (61) 2008 w ASE's @ 23.95 each...............on 5/2/08...yes.....8 months ago.
Details:
A chargeback has been filed against this transaction. The buyer indicated to their card issuer that the goods or services purchased were either damaged or not as described.
How in the world could 61 2008 w ASE's be damaged or not as described? Did you find out the particulars on the complaint? Was the buyer totally silent prior to the chargeback? >>
Sewer Rats can do some damage.
I am sorry for the nonsense you are going through SUMORada that just plain sucks. Fight it till the end my friend. I would even get your local news station involved, maybe a little pressure on this CC Company might make them think twice about their dealings with Card Holders. Could you wonder if this news got out and some crooks opened new CC accts with the CC company boy things would get out of hand quickly.
What was the Credit Card company may I ask? I will be sure to put on my ebay auction PAYPAL only with bank funds or anyone except?
Or, you could promise to make the trip from Tampa Bay to Duluth to pickup the unsatisfactory product at the address below, which is residential. Looks like a husband and wife "team" between the two businesses linked to the eBay ID.
The eBay ID that you provided, liquidationdealers, is apparently registered by this company:
CyberVision, Inc.
3339 Benthollow Ln.
Duluth, GA 30096
404-441-4480
Same address given for DZiner Apparel Co.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Good point, I missed that.
Steve
That must have been at least 3 years ago, paypal can no longer do that.
Steve
<< <i>NOT!! PAYPAL TOOK FUNDS DIRECTLY FROM MY BANK ACCOUNT WITH ANY EXPLICIT AUTHORIZATION TO COVER THE BALANCE!!! I came very close to bouncing my mortgage check as a result
That must have been at least 3 years ago, paypal can no longer do that.
Steve >>
or another fable ... PayPal cannot touch your linked account w/o a court order or judgment against you...Period...end of story .
With the auctions I have up they will get the rest in a couple days, there is nothing I can do about that ,
I'm just working on getting this low life and getting my $$$ back.
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>How do I block him ??? >>
log into ebay, go to the site map button top right corner, go to the sell column, look for the blocked buyer list and add the scum, sorry, names.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>With the auctions I have up they will get the rest in a couple days, there is nothing I can do about that ,
I'm just working on getting this low life and getting my $$$ back. >>
Another reason to have two ebay and two paypal accounts. With a second paypal account you could revise your existing listing to send payment to other paypal account.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>Removing your money from paypal does not relieve you from the claim. Paypal will just start calling you to "make good" on the amount that they claim you owe. In the end i made payment just to save the hassle of being reported/sued whatever. It is sad that slimeballs can do this, but it is just the cost of doing business. >>
Getting sued is an opportunity for the facts to be presented in a court of law.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
<< <i>
<< <i>Removing your money from paypal does not relieve you from the claim. Paypal will just start calling you to "make good" on the amount that they claim you owe. In the end i made payment just to save the hassle of being reported/sued whatever. It is sad that slimeballs can do this, but it is just the cost of doing business. >>
Getting sued is an opportunity for the facts to be presented in a court of law. >>
Plus I would rather have the money in my pocket and them trying to get it rather than the reverse
<< <i>So I guess it's best to spend an extra $1 for a money order. >>
<< <i>I got a chargeback this morning in my paypal account for over $ 1400.00........
This guy bought a BIN of (61) 2008 w ASE's @ 23.95 each...............on 5/2/08...yes.....8 months ago.
His ID is " liquidationdealers " The buyer left this feedback after the purchase........"Great seller. Just as described and great value. A++++++
Any suggestions on the best way to handle this would be appreciated.
This is from paypal...
Details:
A chargeback has been filed against this transaction. The buyer indicated to their card issuer that the goods or services purchased were either damaged or not as described.
Ultimately, it is the card issuer’s decision whether the buyer’s chargeback is valid. If you believe that this chargeback is unwarranted, PayPal’s team of chargeback specialists would like to help you put together a case to submit to the card issuer. This expert assistance is one of the unique benefits of using PayPal.
To begin responding to this chargeback, click the "Resolve" button below.
While this case is being investigated, we have placed a temporary hold on the disputed funds.
Response deadline: Please respond within 10 calendar days of the filing date of this chargeback. >>
JUST UFB!! When is a transaction ever really closed in the eyes of Ebay/PayPal????? Where does it end? Thanks for warning us about this buyer who is BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>JUST UFB!! When is a transaction ever really closed in the eyes of Ebay/PayPal????? Where does it end? Thanks for warning us about this buyer who is BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Ok, Russ has alluded to this several times, but people either can't or won't get it:
THIS IS NOT A PAYPAL PROBLEM.
The problem is that the buyer is doing a fraudulent chargeback THROUGH HIS CREDIT CARD COMPANY.
If the OP had a merchant credit card account instead of PayPal, he STILL would be susceptible to this.
If you want to blame the credit card companies for allowing this, fine.
If you want to blame eBay for forcing sellers to either use PayPal or a credit card merchant account, fine.
You can't blame PayPal on this one; they're just the middleman, and if you read the OP, you'll see that PayPal is willing to assist him.
C'mon people, get off the PAYPALISEVILMOFG! bandwagon. Sheesh...
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>Sorry about your difficulty. I've never understood why people would leave money in their paypal accounts when there have been many stories of this nature (although not this long).
PayPal just seems like a scheme that needs to be taken down. >>
Do you have to have money left in your PayPal account for a chargeback or, I would guess, if you don't that they would simply charge your card or debit your bank account. I hope never to find out, but with dirtbag buyers like the one in this thread, no transaction seems immune.
<< <i>Do you have to have money left in your PayPal account for a chargeback >>
They can do the chargeback and give your paypal a negative balance.
<< <i>or, I would guess, if you don't that they would simply charge your card or debit your bank account. >>
They can't charge your credit card or bank account without your approval, they can only leave a negative paypal balance.
The next question is if they give a negative balance what can they do to collect? Can they get it on your credit report or give it for collection?
<< <i>
<< <i>JUST UFB!! When is a transaction ever really closed in the eyes of Ebay/PayPal????? Where does it end? Thanks for warning us about this buyer who is BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Ok, Russ has alluded to this several times, but people either can't or won't get it:
THIS IS NOT A PAYPAL PROBLEM.
The problem is that the buyer is doing a fraudulent chargeback THROUGH HIS CREDIT CARD COMPANY.
If the OP had a merchant credit card account instead of PayPal, he STILL would be susceptible to this.
If you want to blame the credit card companies for allowing this, fine.
If you want to blame eBay for forcing sellers to either use PayPal or a credit card merchant account, fine.
You can't blame PayPal on this one; they're just the middleman, and if you read the OP, you'll see that PayPal is willing to assist him.
C'mon people, get off the PAYPALISEVILMOFG! bandwagon. Sheesh... >>
Yes, coinpics., I stand corrected on this. I have to admit that I read the frist couple of posts on the thread, got angry, and responded before reading the remaining posts and learning that PayPal was not (entirely) at fault.
Very informative thread: I now know, among other things, to save my shipping reciepts for at least two years. I had been shredding them after pos. fb received.
The forced PayPal is a total scam.
<< <i>If the OP had a merchant credit card account instead of PayPal, he STILL would be susceptible to this. >>
If the OP had a merchant credit card account, he could talk to the credit card company about the problem- after all, he'd be their customer, too. As it is, when you accept a PayPal payment, you have no way of contacting the buyer's cc company to explain your side of the transaction.
Thanks...
<< <i>
<< <i>JUST UFB!! When is a transaction ever really closed in the eyes of Ebay/PayPal????? Where does it end? Thanks for warning us about this buyer who is BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Ok, Russ has alluded to this several times, but people either can't or won't get it:
THIS IS NOT A PAYPAL PROBLEM.
The problem is that the buyer is doing a fraudulent chargeback THROUGH HIS CREDIT CARD COMPANY.
. >>
Hogwash. Paypal is a party to this transaction and should cover this under their so-called "seller protection" policy that also forces sellers to waste money on Signature Confirmation on Registered Mail packages. If the seller complies with requirements of the Seller Protection policy, then Paypal/Ebay should cover the loss and go after the buyer.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Respond to the dispute explaining that it was 8 months, also copy and paste feedback. Then wait 24 hours and call PayPal and talk to a real person. 888-221-1161. Since he left positive feedback they should release the funds. Also, check the buyer's feedback and email other sellers and see if you can find 2 others that he is doing same to. Then tell PayPal about it, referencing name and phone numbers or email addresses.
<< <i>With the auctions I have up they will get the rest in a couple days, there is nothing I can do about that ,
I'm just working on getting this low life and getting my $$$ back. >>
You could close and cancel all your outstanding auctions so that no new money comes in.
You can fight the fight as well through pay pal and ebay if your time is worth the money. Either way, the burden is on you. Sad to say, but it sounds like a thief is getting away with the goods while you are faced with red tape and a real monetary loss.
HE>I
<< <i>
<< <i>Have you called PAYPAL and EBAY yet
Everyone seems to be beating around the bush. Call the buyer and demand that he return the coins-all 61 of them or you will file theft charges. If they don't answer send a certified letter to continue a paper trail. >>
I wonder if the silver value of these 61 ASE's went down significantly since they were bought in May of 2008?
<< <i><< If the OP had a merchant credit card account instead of PayPal, he STILL would be susceptible to this. >>
If the OP had a merchant credit card account, he could talk to the credit card company about the problem >>
True, but it wouldn't matter. A SNAD claim is just as difficult to win even when dealing directly with the merchant processing company.
<< <i>Hogwash. Paypal is a party to this transaction and should cover this under their so-called "seller protection" policy that also forces sellers to waste money on Signature Confirmation on Registered Mail packages >>
There is also no protection provided for SNAD claims through a merchant processing service. In other words, had the OP accepted a credit card directly and this happened, he'd be in the same boat. On their end, PayPal has to deal with the policies established by the credit card issuers. They have no choice.
Again, this is not PayPal. This is a slimeball in collusion with his card issuer.
Russ, NCNE
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<< <i>JUST UFB!! When is a transaction ever really closed in the eyes of Ebay/PayPal????? Where does it end? Thanks for warning us about this buyer who is BLOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Ok, Russ has alluded to this several times, but people either can't or won't get it:
THIS IS NOT A PAYPAL PROBLEM.
The problem is that the buyer is doing a fraudulent chargeback THROUGH HIS CREDIT CARD COMPANY.
. >>
Hogwash. Paypal is a party to this transaction and should cover this under their so-called "seller protection" policy that also forces sellers to waste money on Signature Confirmation on Registered Mail packages. If the seller complies with requirements of the Seller Protection policy, then Paypal/Ebay should cover the loss and go after the buyer. >>
Directly from PayPal seller protection policy:
What's not covered
Items picked up locally or delivered in person
Services, intangible items, and digital goods
Claims and chargebacks where the buyer says that the shipped item is significantly not as described
Clearly this crook was taking advantage of the last sentence, which would seem to give a clever crook liscense to do a chargeback on anything.
What is the burden of the buyer to proove that the item is not as described?? A crook could say this about anything, just as was done here.
<< <i>Again, this is not PayPal. This is a slimeball in collusion with his card issuer. >>
Agreed and this IS the bottom line. As such, he should be dealt with accordingly as
should PayPal.
Frankly, I am surprised that with all the Attorneys at Law that are members here -
not ONE has stepped forth to provide legal opinion as to the correct way to blow
this whole thing wide open!
This buyer need to be prosecuted for Fraud etc and PayPal should be sued as well.
In plain layman English ... this is Bull she-it and heads should roll.
This fiasco presents the opportunity to send a message - a precedent, loud & clear
so that this NEVER happens AGAIN!
Legal counsel, Law Enforcement, Attorneys General & the FTC etc should ALL be made
aware of such activity & burn some serious rear ends.
What State does this chump presently reside in?
<< <i>What is the burden of the buyer to proove that the item is not as described?? >>
Unfortunately, in eCommerce, (non swiped transactions), the burden of proof is on the seller. It's always been this way. The card issuers, as well as the law, favor the buyer.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>What's not covered
Items picked up locally or delivered in person
Services, intangible items, and digital goods
Claims and chargebacks where the buyer says that the shipped item is significantly not as described >>
That last item produces a loophole so wide you can drive a Mack truck through it.
Is there ANY way a seller can protect themselves against the last line here? Seems like any slimeball can claim SNAD and no amount of dotting the i's and crossing the t's to be protected by Seller Protection will matter.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
"VERY UNREASONABLE BUYER. DAMAGED IN TRANSIT. WANTED $ BACK BEFORE RETURNED ITEM."
I guess this slimeball doesn't like when it's done to him!!
Of course it has. Silver was about $7/oz. higher in May of 2008 than it is right now. But the present premium on 1 oz. A.S.E.'s narrows that difference by a substantial amount. That does not justify the scam being attempted here regardless.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
BTW, in the event PayPal should award this joker his money back, doesn't it stand to reason that he should return all of them? If so then the original seller can then declare that what was returned is SNAD! Not the same merchandise, at all.
Let's see how he likes it!!
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Belay that for now. Chicken Little doesn't have anything presently listed.
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<< <i>With the auctions I have up they will get the rest in a couple days, there is nothing I can do about that , I'm just working on getting this low life and getting my $$$ back. >>
You could close and cancel all your outstanding auctions so that no new money comes in. >>
Most of us like new money coming in. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. --Jerry
<< <i>True, but it wouldn't matter. A SNAD claim is just as difficult to win even when dealing directly with the merchant processing company. >>
No doubt it would be difficult, but not impossible.
If I was having a problem with a buyer, I'd prefer being able to actually talk to the cc company myself (especially if I had a merchant account with them) instead of trusting PayPal to do anything for me. But then, that's just me... YMMV.