It is still the same slabbed coin with a 2nd positive opinion.
Note: my slabbed indian head cents with a Eagle Eye sticker AND an added CAC sticker did not suddenly become a commodity. It is still the same slabbed coin with a 2nd and a 3rd positive opinion.
I am not sure what I wrote was completely clear... ANACs was at one time the only grading company willing to attribute certain coins. I really do not think crossing should be a requirement if crossing results in the loss of the attribution of the coin in order to obtain a CAC sticker if such a sticker is desired. While I appreciate the need for a simple business plan and doing what you do best, it seems that there are some holes that need to be filled and perhaps an exception for ANACs attribution coins. I don't think this is an unreasonable position.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
So J.A. created CAC for his love of numismatics , to filter out lower end coins , and to provide a perceived service to collectors and ultimately investors alike ?
Back to the original point. IIRC JA told me that they would only allow PCGS and NGC because they 1. Have a grade guarantee, and 2. They have online pop report and cert verification. He said if others would do the same they may be considered.
I believe the guarantee creates a level of downside insurance, and the online pops and cert verification are operational considerations.
<< <i>Back to the original point. IIRC JA told me that they would only allow PCGS and NGC because they 1. Have a grade guarantee, and 2. They have online pop report and cert verification. He said if others would do the same they may be considered. >>
This explanation sounds logical, but it lacks the drama necessary to foster a really good conspiracy theory.
Why wouldn't CAC sticker ANY holder regarldess of whether its PCGS, NGC or even the Peking Coin Grading Company? Aren't they simply stating that the coin in the slab is good for the grade?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Aside from the ANACS issue, is it really wise to have the CAC turn your coins into some kind of commodity? Personally, I would rather have my coins end up in a true collectors hands rather then seeing them turned into some kind of trading stock. And once they enter that investor's cycle, what coins will be left for those who actually know and enjoy their coins for what they are........a hobby.
And how long will it be before PCGS offers some kind of review service when your coin doesn't sticker? Leo >>
The TPGs have already turned your coins into a commodity. A lot of the coins in CACd slabs aren't even close to investor grade. PCGS already offers the grade guarantee service; has been for quite awhile. >>
So.... the CAC is not just fine-tuning a system with the times? I can imagine some are taking PCGS up on their grade guarantee service when their coins don't sticker. Sounds like a windfall for all to me. Leo >>
Then Oreville added;
<< <i>CAC stickered slabs, a commodity? No. It is still the same slabbed coin with a 2nd positive opinion. Note: my slabbed indian head cents with a Eagle Eye sticker AND an added CAC sticker did not suddenly become a commodity. It is still the same slabbed coin with a 2nd and a 3rd positive opinion. >>
My point was based on the fact that JA stated (somewhere although I can't find it for now, likely went poof one day) that there was a market among collectors who wanted to collect coins only if there was a way to weed out the good stuff from the not so good when buying coins sight unseen. It was said that this special group wouldn't have the quality time to learn the ins and outs of "rose-picking" (a new alternative term to cherrypicking) nice coins for the grade for their collections or should we say, investors portfolios (possibly a lie). (where's the high eye browsed cigar smoking emoticon when you need one?) Since those folks admittingly don't really know how to grade, this tells me that those coins in slabs with stickers are commodities. My point being since the economy is not doing that great and values are down for many coins, was the CAC created to rose-pick the best coins out of a bear market before the next bull? As I have already said way up above; is it really wise to have the CAC turn your coins into some kind of commodity? Personally, I would rather have my coins end up in a true collectors hands rather then seeing them turned into some kind of trading stock (among folks who could care less about the coin)(added). And once they enter that investor's cycle, what coins will be left for those who actually know and enjoy their coins for what they are........a hobby. Of course this doesn't make any sense why they would want the added assurance that the coins they buy/invest in are just right for the assigned grade.
Why wouldn't CAC sticker ANY holder regarldess of whether its PCGS, NGC or even the Peking Coin Grading Company? Aren't they simply stating that the coin in the slab is good for the grade? >>
Exactly! But wouldn't a sticker prevent coins from future submissions to the elite two?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Why wouldn't CAC sticker ANY holder regarldess of whether its PCGS, NGC or even the Peking Coin Grading Company? Aren't they simply stating that the coin in the slab is good for the grade? >>
Exactly! But wouldn't a sticker prevent coins from future submissions to the elite two?
Leo >>
Why would it do that? You are free to send any slabbed coin to PCGS or NGC for crossover and it can be with or without a bean. If CAC was to consider say ICG coins then CAC would have to come up with its own database for them. If a CACd ICG coin got cracked out for whatever reason, the insert/label [if it ever got returned at all] would go to ICG and not CAC. CAC would have no way of knowing that the coin was no longer in the CAC database.
<< <i>The founders and dealers of CAC are interested in pumping up the values of the brands, PCGS and NGC, that they have a financial interest in, and make the most profit from. The sticker tags which coins they should buy, and which coins they can inflate the price of when selling. The fact that they refuse to sticker other slab brands shows their true motives. >>
You have no clue what you're talking about - but Merry Christmas anyway!
The coin in question looks gently cleaned on my monitor - it was probably net graded for this fact. >>
TDN, in the most CAC neutral way I can say it -- I agree with you about the coin. Looks cleaned and recolored to me.
I also don't think you get diddly squat from a 61 grade with a common date coin, regardless of holder, so why even think about the sticker?
Comments
No.
It is still the same slabbed coin with a 2nd positive opinion.
Note: my slabbed indian head cents with a Eagle Eye sticker AND an added CAC sticker did not suddenly become a commodity. It is still the same slabbed coin with a 2nd and a 3rd positive opinion.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Sorry, did you think I was speaking in some kind of code? I wasn't. I said if the coin qualified it would be in a pcgs or ngc holder. >>
If this was a $20,000 piece of early gold, I might agree with you.
But the current example is a coin that could very well have been submitted by a collector years ago, and sold by him or her now, as is.
Is there really a movement out there to go hunting down every single ANACS graded coin worth $200 - 300 and try to cross them to PCGS?
Not that I can see
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
IMHO.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
I believe the guarantee creates a level of downside insurance, and the online pops and cert verification are operational considerations.
the top 2 well regarded grading companies.
<< <i>Back to the original point. IIRC JA told me that they would only allow PCGS and NGC because they 1. Have a grade guarantee, and 2. They have online pop report and cert verification. He said if others would do the same they may be considered. >>
This explanation sounds logical, but it lacks the drama necessary to foster a really good conspiracy theory.
<< <i>Has anyone ever gotten coins back from CAC with a suggestion to send them in under the grade guarantee cuz they mite be overgraded? >>
A friend received a note back with instructions on how to get his money back from NGC. Apparently, the coin had been graffiti'ed and puttied over.
Why wouldn't CAC sticker ANY holder regarldess of whether its PCGS, NGC or even the Peking Coin Grading Company? Aren't they simply stating that the coin in the slab is good for the grade?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Aside from the ANACS issue, is it really wise to have the CAC turn your coins into some kind of commodity? Personally, I would rather have my coins end up in a true collectors hands rather then seeing them turned into some kind of trading stock. And once they enter that investor's cycle, what coins will be left for those who actually know and enjoy their coins for what they are........a hobby.
And how long will it be before PCGS offers some kind of review service when your coin doesn't sticker?
Leo >>
The TPGs have already turned your coins into a commodity. A lot of the coins in CACd slabs aren't even close to investor grade. PCGS already offers the grade guarantee service; has been for quite awhile. >>
So.... the CAC is not just fine-tuning a system with the times? I can imagine some are taking PCGS up on their grade guarantee service when their coins don't sticker. Sounds like a windfall for all to me.
Leo >>
Then Oreville added;
<< <i>CAC stickered slabs, a commodity?
No.
It is still the same slabbed coin with a 2nd positive opinion.
Note: my slabbed indian head cents with a Eagle Eye sticker AND an added CAC sticker did not suddenly become a commodity. It is still the same slabbed coin with a 2nd and a 3rd positive opinion. >>
My point was based on the fact that JA stated (somewhere although I can't find it for now, likely went poof one day) that there was a market among collectors who wanted to collect coins only if there was a way to weed out the good stuff from the not so good when buying coins sight unseen. It was said that this special group wouldn't have the quality time to learn the ins and outs of "rose-picking" (a new alternative term to cherrypicking) nice coins for the grade for their collections or should we say, investors portfolios (possibly a lie). (where's the high eye browsed cigar smoking emoticon when you need one?) Since those folks admittingly don't really know how to grade, this tells me that those coins in slabs with stickers are commodities. My point being since the economy is not doing that great and values are down for many coins, was the CAC created to rose-pick the best coins out of a bear market before the next bull?
As I have already said way up above;
is it really wise to have the CAC turn your coins into some kind of commodity? Personally, I would rather have my coins end up in a true collectors hands rather then seeing them turned into some kind of trading stock (among folks who could care less about the coin)(added). And once they enter that investor's cycle, what coins will be left for those who actually know and enjoy their coins for what they are........a hobby.
Of course this doesn't make any sense why they would want the added assurance that the coins they buy/invest in are just right for the assigned grade.
Was this the beginning of.....
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
Why wouldn't CAC sticker ANY holder regarldess of whether its PCGS, NGC or even the Peking Coin Grading Company? Aren't they simply stating that the coin in the slab is good for the grade? >>
Exactly! But wouldn't a sticker prevent coins from future submissions to the elite two?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>
Why wouldn't CAC sticker ANY holder regarldess of whether its PCGS, NGC or even the Peking Coin Grading Company? Aren't they simply stating that the coin in the slab is good for the grade? >>
Exactly! But wouldn't a sticker prevent coins from future submissions to the elite two?
Leo >>
Why would it do that? You are free to send any slabbed coin to PCGS or NGC for crossover and it can be with or without a bean. If CAC was to consider say ICG coins then CAC would have to come up with its own database for them. If a CACd ICG coin got cracked out for whatever reason, the insert/label [if it ever got returned at all] would go to ICG and not CAC. CAC would have no way of knowing that the coin was no longer in the CAC database.
<< <i>
<< <i>The founders and dealers of CAC are interested in pumping up the values of the brands, PCGS and NGC, that they have a financial interest in, and make the most profit from. The sticker tags which coins they should buy, and which coins they can inflate the price of when selling. The fact that they refuse to sticker other slab brands shows their true motives. >>
You have no clue what you're talking about - but Merry Christmas anyway!
The coin in question looks gently cleaned on my monitor - it was probably net graded for this fact. >>
TDN, in the most CAC neutral way I can say it -- I agree with you about the coin. Looks cleaned and recolored to me.
I also don't think you get diddly squat from a 61 grade with a common date coin, regardless of holder, so why even think about the sticker?
I do not see any reason why anyone would say that your coin is AU.............I really don't see the "rub" that they are refering to.
Ray