Too bad CAC doesn't sticker ANACS holders. ;)
coinpictures
Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
Methinks this one would qualify. 
This turned out to be a GREAT eBay gamble.
Scratches below Liberty's nose and above C in CENT are on the holder. I believe
it was downgraded due to the hit to the T in CENT.
Nicer than 63s I have in NGC and PCGS holders.
This turned out to be a GREAT eBay gamble.Scratches below Liberty's nose and above C in CENT are on the holder. I believe
it was downgraded due to the hit to the T in CENT.
Nicer than 63s I have in NGC and PCGS holders.
0
Comments
.....................................................
Merry Christmas!
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>So, why does CAC not sticker ANACS holdered coins? There certainly must be some ANACS coins that CAC would find acceptable, even if only 5% of them. >>
AFIAK they don't have any online tracking system so all they get is a CAC snicker.
Franklin-Lover's Forum
<< <i>CAC stickers coins that are PQ for the grade right? So I don't see why it matters who certified it if it's PQ for the grade. >>
Who's money is backing the decision to limit which coins they approve ? That's an easy question to answer. (though rhetorical)
<< <i>If they really wanted to help collectors, imo, they would CAC the "iffy" TPGs MORE and not really worry about the big 2 so much. >>
Actually, I believe it is the opposite. Collectors desiring to purchase a coin in a ANACS could simply request the coin be crossed to PCGS or NGC.
I am a firm believer that CAC is best trying to keep its model as simple as possible. Stick to what they are most familiar with (PCGS and NGC holders) as there is now the threat of counterfeit holders as well.
Also, the CAC model also supports a readily apparent marketability of the coin within a slab and since ANACS has been so variable in its grading standards it simply does not pass the test of such steady marketability.
Incidentally, since California Fractional gold pocket pieces and many modern coins have also been too variable pricing wise, it is too difficult to come up with a stable published market of such slabs. Therefore, even though these are in PCGS and NGC slabs, CAC will not review them.
Bottom line, stick with what you do best. Even if it is a smaller footprint than others would prefer.
Please enter me in your generous giveaway.
I agree with Oreville.
One problem with including ANACS is that the company and its products have evolved considerably over the years, especially recently. At certain points in time, ANACS may have been on par with (or even better than) the Big 2. At this point in time, with all the shenanigans, staff swaps with ICG, ownership changes, slab changes, etc., I view it to be unstable. ANACS coins, in general, do not share the broad market acceptance of the Big 2. Are there ANACS-graded coins that are equal or superior to their counterparts in NGC or PCGS slabs? You bet. If you want a sticker, find them, have them slabbed by PCGS or NGC, and get your sticker, if that's what you would like.
Me? I would just keep the coin you purchased in the holder you purchased it in and not worry about the other stuff. When it comes time to sell it, if the coin is as nice as the photo, it should sell for a premium to the holder/grade to a knowledgeable collector or honest dealer.
<< <i>So, why does CAC not sticker ANACS holdered coins? There certainly must be some ANACS coins that CAC would find acceptable, even if only 5% of them. >>
The safe answer: there is the potential for database duplication with a PCGS slab of the same serial number and no provision for older serial numbers starting with two letters. (Solution is to just all a special character in front of ANACS serial numbers and set the field type to include all ASCII.
The less safe answer: politics plain and simple -- either bad blood or another attempt to squeeze out ANACS from the race by reducing their legitimacy or both.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
I clearly understand the reasons that they have chosen not to review these coins, but refusing to at least look at these coins, in part defeats the whole purpose for its existence.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
....and if they did, how would that change this coin?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>If it would qualify it would be in a pcgs or ngc holder. >>
are you trying to say that if a coin is in a anacs holder, it would be rejected or lower grade in PCGS/ngc holder?
<< <i>The founders and dealers of CAC are interested in pumping up the values of the brands, PCGS and NGC, that they have a financial interest in, and make the most profit from. The sticker tags which coins they should buy, and which coins they can inflate the price of when selling. The fact that they refuse to sticker other slab brands shows their true motives. >>
Yes, that must be it.*
* Sarcasm.
<< <i>The founders and dealers of CAC are interested in pumping up the values of the brands, PCGS and NGC, that they have a financial interest in, and make the most profit from. The sticker tags which coins they should buy, and which coins they can inflate the price of when selling. The fact that they refuse to sticker other slab brands shows their true motives. >>
You have no clue what you're talking about - but Merry Christmas anyway!
The coin in question looks gently cleaned on my monitor - it was probably net graded for this fact.
<< <i>The coin in question looks gently cleaned on my monitor - it was probably net graded for this fact. >>
Would you please share why you think that? This is not a challenge in the sense "I don't think it was cleaned"; I want to learn...
I see no hairlines. Obviously not stripped.
Slight smoothness in some of the fields on the obverse.
Some of the high points, especially the obverse, seem a little lighter. Is that what you mean?
<< <i>
<< <i>If it would qualify it would be in a pcgs or ngc holder. >>
are you trying to say that if a coin is in a anacs holder, it would be rejected or lower grade in PCGS/ngc holder? >>
Sorry, did you think I was speaking in some kind of code? I wasn't. I said if the coin qualified it would be in a pcgs or ngc holder. But all those who know so much and think otherwise , they can feel free to pay real ms-61 money for a coin in an anacs holder, based on a scan on a message board. They can then talk about the "CAC Conspiracy" and how they in their infinite numismatic prowess are circumventing it.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>The coin in question looks gently cleaned on my monitor - it was probably net graded for this fact. >>
Would you please share why you think that? This is not a challenge in the sense "I don't think it was cleaned"; I want to learn...
I see no hairlines. Obviously not stripped.
Slight smoothness in some of the fields on the obverse.
Some of the high points, especially the obverse, seem a little lighter. Is that what you mean? >>
The surfaces do not look natural to me. There are no hits nor apparent hairlines to justify the grade. My own experience with ANACS was that a coin that both PCGS and NGC bodybagged, they offered to put into a 61 holder. Thus, the combination of all the above leads me to my conclusion.
As I've often said - coins that appear PQ to collectors are often silently net graded for problems they don't have enough experience to detect.
<< <i>ANACs has graded some terrific coins. CAC is operating its business the way it deems fit. While I think some ANACs coins are worthy of a CAC sticker, I believe the real issue is whether a coin is graded appropriately, regardless of whether it was graded by NGC, PCGS, ANACs, IGC or even the Canadian Grading service ICCS, CAC could review and decline to sticker ALL of those TPG coins that fail to make the grade.
I clearly understand the reasons that they have chosen not to review these coins, but refusing to at least look at these coins, in part defeats the whole purpose for its existence. >>
Most here feel that PCGS and NGC are the top 2 TPGs. They both have online verifiable cert numbers and Registry programs. In short they are the most desired names in third party grading; the ones that most folks want. Why any knowledgeable collector would submit superb coins to anyone else [knowing of their limitations] is beyond me unless they are using them as a screening service. If you don't need anyone to tell you that a coin is PQ regardless of if its raw or in ANY TPG holder, then more power to you. Good luck tho in convincing the less well informed. Why do some eBay sellers feel compelled to write a novel when listing a certain coin for auction while others have only a sentence or two. Because in each case their approach works for them. If a person wants their coin stickered then by all means get it into a holder that CAC will accept.
Funny thing is that people will post stuff here asking for opinions or seek opinions from friends, other collectors and dealers at shows; but somehow the presence of a bean indicating a second highly professional opinion of that same coin sucks.
That's an excellent point and one that has been made time and time again.
I think what rubs people the wrong way is:
1) Having to pay for the opinion. That is, you don't hear the ones who got their coins screened for free at CoinFest complaining, do you?
2) There is a sense of elitism around the whole venture. Elitism is great, unless you are the one excluded from the party.
3) There is concern that this is a thinly-veiled scheme of the dealers to extract higher prices for coins from collectors. I have bought several CAC-certified coins, and this has not been my experience, but I do not see the black helicopters hovering over me, either.
<< <i>Funny thing is that people will post stuff here asking for opinions or seek opinions from friends, other collectors and dealers at shows; but somehow the presence of a bean indicating a second highly professional opinion of that same coin sucks.
That's an excellent point and one that has been made time and time again.
I think what rubs people the wrong way is:
1) Having to pay for the opinion. That is, you don't hear the ones who got their coins screened for free at CoinFest complaining, do you?
2) There is a sense of elitism around the whole venture. Elitism is great, unless you are the one excluded from the party.
3) There is concern that this is a thinly-veiled scheme of the dealers to extract higher prices for coins from collectors. I have bought several CAC-certified coins, and this has not been my experience, but I do not see the black helicopters hovering over me, either.
Well they can always go to coin fest and get them done for free. I would likely only send them in if I was planning to sell or if I was very flush with cash. As far as elitism, this board was full of it long before CAC was a gleam in JA's eye.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
NJCC
My opinions of the entire CAC concept have been fairly clear all along: I'm not a fan.
I like these old "ANA" ANACS holders; I have no intention of trying to remove the coin from its holder. The only reason I would ever do so is for registry purposes, but my half cent registry set ATS is just for fun anyway. No chance of ever completing it.
There's no wear that I can see under a loupe. Color is closer to that of the slab shots; the closeups are lighter to show detail.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>I found it on ebay and I like the seller's photos better. The problems with the coin may just be the photos. --Jerry >>
There's a reason I've been sending coins to Brandon for imaging... am having issues with dark enough to retain original color versus light enough to be able to show detail. It's not working.
eBay pics:
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
PM me if that puppy is for sale.
I am submitting another 1853 to PCGS that is pretty sharp, but not that sharp. (It's a nice AU, though). Edit- whoops, mine is a cent, not a half cent. Duh.
And how long will it be before PCGS offers some kind of review service when your coin doesn't sticker?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>And how long will it be before PCGS offers some kind of review service when your coin doesn't sticker?
Leo >>
I'll guess that it will happen just after he11 freezes over.
<< <i>
<< <i>And how long will it be before PCGS offers some kind of review service when your coin doesn't sticker?
Leo >>
I'll guess that it will happen just after he11 freezes over. >>
hell froze over on October 27, 2004
<< <i>
<< <i>And how long will it be before PCGS offers some kind of review service when your coin doesn't sticker?
Leo >>
I'll guess that it will happen just after he11 freezes over. >>
Having participated in a gazillion of these CAC threads, there is very little new information or perspective offered in these threads.
I give Leo credit for offering something different and never before discussed.
<< <i>
<< <i>If they really wanted to help collectors, imo, they would CAC the "iffy" TPGs MORE and not really worry about the big 2 so much. >>
Actually, I believe it is the opposite. Collectors desiring to purchase a coin in a ANACS could simply request the coin be crossed to PCGS or NGC. >>
And effectively guarantee that only two grading services will ever be accepted or respected.
No thanks.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>And how long will it be before PCGS offers some kind of review service when your coin doesn't sticker?
Leo >>
I'll guess that it will happen just after he11 freezes over. >>
Having participated in a gazillion of these CAC threads, there is very little new information or perspective offered in these threads.
I give Leo credit for offering something different and never before discussed.
It must be the christmas spirit in me!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>If it would qualify it would be in a pcgs or ngc holder. >>
.....................................................
<< <i>Aside from the ANACS issue, is it really wise to have the CAC turn your coins into some kind of commodity? Personally, I would rather have my coins end up in a true collectors hands rather then seeing them turned into some kind of trading stock. And once they enter that investor's cycle, what coins will be left for those who actually know and enjoy their coins for what they are........a hobby.
And how long will it be before PCGS offers some kind of review service when your coin doesn't sticker?
Leo >>
The TPGs have already turned your coins into a commodity. A lot of the coins in CACd slabs aren't even close to investor grade. PCGS already offers the grade guarantee service; has been for quite awhile.
<< <i>
<< <i>Aside from the ANACS issue, is it really wise to have the CAC turn your coins into some kind of commodity? Personally, I would rather have my coins end up in a true collectors hands rather then seeing them turned into some kind of trading stock. And once they enter that investor's cycle, what coins will be left for those who actually know and enjoy their coins for what they are........a hobby.
And how long will it be before PCGS offers some kind of review service when your coin doesn't sticker?
Leo >>
The TPGs have already turned your coins into a commodity. A lot of the coins in CACd slabs aren't even close to investor grade. PCGS already offers the grade guarantee service; has been for quite awhile. >>
So.... the CAC is not just fine-tuning a system with the times? I can imagine some are taking PCGS up on their grade guarantee service when their coins don't sticker. Sounds like a windfall for all to me.
Leo
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Sure, it is not perfect. No one is perfect.
But the key concept I got from JA is that he is clearly trying to avoid:
"jack of all trades, master of none."
Ok, start stickering ANACS, well then, why not ICG, why not ICCS, why not Accugrade, why not Coin World slabs, why not expand into PCGS/NGC moderns, in PCGS/NGC California Fractionals, So called dollars, in foreign coins; after all "it is all about the money?"
Or is it?
JA said it simply: "Stick to what you do best."
I am not sure if Rick Snow ever stickered ICG, or Accugrade slabbed Indian cents or ANACS cents for that matter.
If he refused to sticker ICG slabbed coins should he have gotten the same criticism as being levied against CAC?
I am curious to hear from Rick Snow on this.