Agree? You Cannot Be a Serious Collector Without Selling Coins
itsnotjustme
Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭
Aside from buying some sure hits from the mint, I consider myself primarily a collector. However, I faced hearing I was running a business when I sold coins.
My assertation is you cannot be a serious collector without also selling coins. Let's take a type set I am building. Over the years my tastes have refined, my coin budget has expanded and retracted, and other factors like coin availability and price have affected my purchases. Now, in many cases I have purchased a replacement coin for one already in my set. Of course this leaves me with an extra coin to either hold on to or sell. Since my pockets only go so deep, I normally want to sell. So due to my collecting I need to sell coins. But that does not make me a dealer....
My assertation is you cannot be a serious collector without also selling coins. Let's take a type set I am building. Over the years my tastes have refined, my coin budget has expanded and retracted, and other factors like coin availability and price have affected my purchases. Now, in many cases I have purchased a replacement coin for one already in my set. Of course this leaves me with an extra coin to either hold on to or sell. Since my pockets only go so deep, I normally want to sell. So due to my collecting I need to sell coins. But that does not make me a dealer....
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I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
.............who was the blasphemer that accused you of dealing?
I can't see how I would be one without selling, since it's not like I have unlimited money. I think it is also awfully hard to know what anything is really worth without selling once in a while. But I guess if I were independently wealthy, I could "seriously" build a collection of something, and just keep all the upgraded undercoins along the way. I'm not sure what the point of that would be, but then again I'm not so sure what the point of collecting is at all. It's just a weird obsession that eats up a bunch of my time every winter.
could not sell it down the road for something similair to what they
paid. "they" being themself or a family member.
it is critical to the hobby as it stands today.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Selling coins is often a natural part of the evolution of a collection. Most collectors choose to sell a coin now and then to upgrade their collection, shift their collecting focus, or to get money for other life necessities.
I met a man on the subway coming back from the Baltimore show the other day who told me about his collection. He also told me he has never sold a coin. I think some collectors are like that. They just collect inexpensive (or less expensive) coins and never feel the need to sell. But I could tell that the subway man considered himself to be a serious collector.
How do we define "serious collector" anyway?
<< <i>I agree with the OP. >>
And
coin can bring highly variable pricing dependent on the venue it's being sold and
the knowledge of the buyer and seller.
If you don't sell a coin from time to time you'll never really learn what they are
worth and you'll always tend to be the buyer of coins near the high end of what
they trade for.
Unless you're collecting very inexpensive coins it is imperative to know their value.
Money is a problem that many collectors face and the only way to perpetuate and breathe life into a collection is from buying, upgrading and ultimately selling. Its what collecting has become since silver was removed from American coinage.
It used to be that a collector could simply go through available pocket change and receive many different Mercury Dines, an occasional Barber Dime, Standing Liberty and an occasional Barber quarter, Franklin and Walking Liberty halves. Literally all of these were still in circulation.
Once we dropped off the silver standard, all these coins dissappeared within a matter of years and now, the only way to obtain them is through either buying them outright or by buying little mini-hoards. They all must be purchased which can really drain a collectors pocket book.
The only logical end is in selling what you do not need.
The difference between being a collector and a dealer, I believe, is in the volume that one sells. Not necessarily price but volume because if I collected BU Barber Halves, the sale of 10 or 20 coins a year would exceed the income of someone that dealt say Lincoln cents or even Jefferson Nickels.
The name is LEE!
Thinning and reshaping a focused collection is normal. Otherwise, unless you had a master plan from the start, you'll just have an accumulation as opposed to a collection.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
There's also times where a coin you really want comes along, and you need to raise some capital, and you're going to sell some coins. I had that happen last spring. A big coin came along, and thankfully the seller gave me a month to come up with the money. I used that oppurtunity to cull out some unwanted coins, and in the process, added a big coin to my collection.
42/92
<< <i>I totally, 100% disagree. That is pure BS..... I have never sold a coin... and do not intend to. So by your definition, I am not a serious collector??? What a crock of pure fecal matter. Making a statement like that - well, I will cool it... Garbage.. that is all.. just garbage. Cheers, RickO >>
I agree with RickO as I am not a seller either.
As for dupes...yup, I got dupes.
If I ever NEED to sell my coins that means I screwed up a lot of other things first and
coins would be the least of my worries. I will sell coins at some point, but it will not
change my collector "status"
<< <i>I totally, 100% disagree. That is pure BS..... I have never sold a coin... and do not intend to. So by your definition, I am not a serious collector??? What a crock of pure fecal matter. Making a statement like that - well, I will cool it... Garbage.. that is all.. just garbage. Cheers, RickO >>
Wow... a little harsh... I'd say!
<< <i>I totally, 100% disagree. That is pure BS..... I have never sold a coin... and do not intend to. So by your definition, I am not a serious collector??? What a crock of pure fecal matter. Making a statement like that - well, I will cool it... Garbage.. that is all.. just garbage. Cheers, RickO >>
You can be a real collector without selling a coin but I don't believe you
can learn their value without sellingf them (or at least seeing them sold).
For most individual collectors knowing the value is a very important part
of being a collector. We are all different though and some collecting spec-
ialties are not as important to have a firm grasp of value. If you buy a lot
at auction then you can get a good feel for value especially in fairly steady
areas of the market.
<< <i>
<< <i>I totally, 100% disagree. That is pure BS..... I have never sold a coin... and do not intend to. So by your definition, I am not a serious collector??? What a crock of pure fecal matter. Making a statement like that - well, I will cool it... Garbage.. that is all.. just garbage. Cheers, RickO >>
Wow... a little harsh... I'd say!
RickO just had a little too much to eat today and is not feeling real well. Tomorrow he will be OK.
Ken
But I know what my coins are worth if I were to sell....its not very hard to figure out.
Some are worth less than I paid some are worth more.
I will buy coins with the intent to sell them as they don't fit into my collecting interests, but after some time passes I grow attatched and hold on to them.
I guess thats just my nature as a collector.
And if that is all it takes, your opinion is not worth my consideration. Cheers, RickO
I had a guy in yesterday who had purchased some nice coins, but he paid so strong he was asking like over trends for several MS-66 Commem's and some O-mint $1.oo gold, I offered fair but he had over expectations, so i sent him packing as the market just wont bear it currently.
and I'm in good company.
of knowledge who have not, do not and will not sell. And yet, because of their involvement in
the hobby, I sense that a few of them know exactly what the outcome will be, plus or minus a
few percent.
However ... I also think that understanding both the buying and selling aspect of the hobby is
an important and sometimes quite informative process. Unfortunately, for some, it is a very painful
experience, as we occasionally hear about on these boards. In addition to "ownership adding a
point or two", it quite often adds enough dollars to a potential sale that no next buyer is willing
to step up unless they absolutely need that coin for their collection. Some of this is poor buying
in the first place, and some, just unrealistic expectation of profits.
Selling a few coins to a room full of knowledgeable numismatists can be a great learning experience
that can certainly change buying habits if the knowledge gained is studied and heeded.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
roadrunner
You certainly can be a serious collector without selling coins, but I would venture to guess that most serious coin collectors do sell coins, at least on occasion. I will also say that not everyone who sells coins is a dealer or should be considered one. A dealer is someone makes his livelihood, or a significant portion of his livelihood, by selling coins.
And I think this applies to far more than coins.
Enjoy your own hobby ...
some coins from time to time or never selling a single coin. Neither
precludes one from being a serious collector. However, never selling
a coin can expose some collectors to a number of serious problems.
1. If you never make a mistake in your purchase or never change your
style of what you like to collect, or never need to raise cash to purchase
what you now wish to own, then never selling a coin is not a problem.
2. If you never sell a coin, you never truly learn if your sources for coins
are treating you fairly or if your eye is as good as you think in selecting
superior coins for your collection. Only be selling once in a while, are you
able to have the market place teach you any shortcomings you may have in
the skills needed for successful collecting.
3. Nothing says you must do or not do anything in order to enjoy your hobby.
However, there are some prudent advisory rules to help collectors avoid the
normal pitfalls that all collectors are prone to fall into.
4. We have a number of collectors that are careful to study the series of coins
that they are interested in before actually jumping in to buy. The have studied
grading, characteristics of various strikes and are careful shoppers for quality as
well as fair pricing. To these collectors, I say well done. As for myself, I have probably
made all the mistakes that are possible to make and in all probability have made the
same mistake a number of times. Eventually I learned the hard way, what this forum
attempts to advise collectors, before the same mistakes are made. As a family of collectors,
this Forum is a teaching society and a sharing of a wealth of knowledge. Take what
information interests you and feel free to pass over the rest. However, good manner, politeness
and good comradship are always necessary to fully enjoy this Forum and what it has to offer.
Camelot
<< <i>As a family of collectors,
this Forum is a teaching society and a shaing of a wealth of knowledge. Take what
information interests you and feel free to pass over the rest. However, good manner, politeness
and good comradship are always necessary to fully enjoy this Forum and what it has to offer. >>
I thought I would never sell a coin and then I realized what's the harm? I've learned a ton
since I decided to sell a few items. I don't mind because it almost always goes towards
purchasing more coins
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
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<< <i>Years ago, I walked the Appalachian Trail from Georgia to Maine. There was lots of talk then about what makes a "real thru-hiker." These conversations alienated many people from one another, for really no good reason. My take-home lesson? Hike your own hike. If it makes you happy, you've got nothing to prove to anyone. You can learn from those around you and change your approach in the interest of making yourself more happy, but at the end of the day it's an amusement and nothing more.
Enjoy your own hobby ... >>
Post of the day, in my opinion.
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In my case, I do sell pieces. Sometimes, I buy a good deal just to sell, but oftentimes, it's something from my collection that no longer fits. I may have a nicer example, I may not like the coin as much as I once did (overall interest or due to a flaw), or I may simply want the additional capital available should something else pique my interest. Sometimes I purposely buy more than I can really afford at the time, knowing I'll keep what I like best and sell the others, giving me a chance to compare different coins without the pressure of having to quickly say yes or know to ensure the coin is mine.
On the other hand, some certainly need not sell what they have. They may have a lot of income and no need to sell. They may be very specialized and studying varieties--even if another example comes up, a piece may be rare enough that they'd rather own both. Some people just like owning stuff.
So yes, I prefer my point of view, but that's how I like to collect. I can't fault other people for collecting in a different manner, much the same as I can't fault other people for collecting different stuff.
OTOH, I have hundreds of coins I've bought purely for the love of those coins. Wide variety. Those I do not sell. I add to the collection when I can afford to. Funny...those are the ones I take out and re-examine over and over.
Am I a dealer? Who cares? As was posted earlier I sell my older motorcycles and cars but that doesn't make me a dealer.
<< <i>I disagree. Selling has zero to do with the seriousness of a collector; the logic that you assert is flawed. There may be many deeper pockets than yours, for one. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>My assertation is you cannot be a serious collector without also selling coins. >>
One will certainly learn by selling coins, but I doubt someone with a large enough net worth would actually need to sell coins.
I have sold coins, and am certainly not a dealer. I have only sold to dealers, not on e-bay or other venues.
With all respect to the original poster the statement at least to me is false if not silly...I'm not a logician by any measure but it seems to me all it takes is the existence of one serious collector (term to be defined) that has never sold a coin to render the statement false; therefore to accept the statement as true i.e. agree with the statement seems to me to also accept there never existed a serious coin collector who did not sell coins, which I find unlikely.
Please correct my logic if I'm mistaken...You Cannot Be a Serious Collector Without Selling Coins...in other words...
Being a Serious Collector => Selling Coins...taking the contrapositive...Not Selling Coins => Not a Serious Collector...seems insulting and silly to me that this could possibly be true.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Agree? You Cannot Be a Serious Collector Without Selling Coins >>
Totally disagree.
You seem to be confusing serious collecting with serious investing or something.
I know many serious collectors who never sell anything, buy what they like when they see it, and plan to keep it.
<< <i>due to my collecting I need to sell coins. But that does not make me a dealer.... >>
I agree with that portion of the OP. A person becomes a dealer when it becomes necessary to file Schedule C with the IRS.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
People have said that you don't know the value of your coins without selling. Well, no, that's not true on several accounts. One, that you can study past sales through major auctions, dealers and even ebay. Secondly, if you sell the coin, then it is no longer your coin and it no longer really matters to you anymore, does it? And finally, it is possible that there are some people who don't care what the so-called "value" of their coins, or even their entire worldly holdings, but collect because they enjoy having them, and the only value they need or want is the sentimental value they get from owning said items.
Others have said that when you need to upgrade, you sell the previous coin. The way I see it, is if you are not going to want that coin in your collection for an extended period of time, don't buy it! Wait until the coin you want comes along and buy that one, instead of just buying whatever comes along first. Some times the urge to do this will succeed over logic, but I still see no reason to sell the earlier purchase. It can never hurt to have an extra, and the earlier puchase could be put toward a trade with a fellow collector at some point.
One of the biggest reasons sighted is that there is not an unlimited fundage of the collector-boy do I know that! I probably have less spending money then anyone else on the board-but I still have fun buying coins I like. I am able to control my impulses and wait until I can save up before buying coins. I literally cannot afford many of the nice things people collect on here-for instance I will probably never own a gold anything-so I collect what I can, when I can, and don't fret too much about what I can't have, instead enjoying the coins I do have. I will not buy a coin, any coin, if I do not plan to keep it for the rest of my life-and considering that I'm 24 years old, this is going to be a coin I keep for a long time, and unless I am comfortable with owning that coin potentially forever-then I don't buy it. Period.
I seen people repeatedly say that they will be sold eventually-not in my case. Besides the fact that I have no intention of selling anything, I doubt I will have heirs of any sort. I expect to leave my collection for some future generation's archeaologists to discover! (not that I could spell that...) or perhaps donate it to a museum of some sort.
Perhaps because I am new to the hobby, and keep detailed records of everything, I will not buy something that I don't need for my collection. It's easy enough to manage what I have and keep track of it all, and therefor not make foolish purposes. The majority of my collection is modern coins (The Clad Era) and when I upgrade them I simply drop the replaced coin into my spending jar! Even were I to purchase an upgrade-unlikely-for any of the relativly few classics I have, I would not sell the previous coin. I would put it into one of the many boxes, jars, etc I have around here and let it sit there. I am also mostly a circulated coins collector and as such upgrades are not always nessicary.
Also, perhaps, because I can't afford to buy really nice coins-the most I've ever spent for a single coin is $25-I have nothing that would be worth selling. It would be more hassle to me to worry about selling them then to just keep them and enjoy them.
I also have a unique collecting perspective, I think. I collect by year/mint mark. And I collect everything. Literally. I KNOW that this is something I can never complete, no matter how long I live. Even if I were to focus solely on coins of the USA, it would be impossible for me, but I collect literally everything-every country in the world, coins and paper money would be welcome in my collection. And I collect that way for several reasons-one of which is that I will be happy with anything I ever get, no matter what it is. Another factor in this perspective is that it gives me leeway that I should have little trouble finding something that would fit in my collection when I get a little bit of money to spend.
But the MAIN factor of collecting this way, is that I enjoy it immensly. I love learning about history, and there's a special feeling that comes from holding a little bit of whatever it is you are interested in! Also, I will never leave the USA-I have no real desire to-and by collecting coins and money from everywhere I can learn about what is going on, what has gone on, what is important to them, whoever they might be. It is, to me, the ONLY way to collect. And the only way I'd want to collect.
In summary-No you do NOT need to sell something to be a serious collector. And you don't even have to have a lot of money to be a serious collector, but in my eyes, being a serious collector is someone who loves what they are collecting, weather it be everything or one simple die marrige on one year of coin 200 years before they were born-it's how they go about it that makes them serious about it.
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