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Whats 14 Karat worth? play nice boys and girls
unknowncomic
Posts: 945 ✭✭
Anyone have any idea what 25.1 grams of 14k would be worth as scrap gold on todays market?
Added image of item in question.
Added image of item in question.
Molon Labe
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<< <i>Anyone have any idea what 25.1 grams of 14k would be worth as scrap gold on todays market? >>
That amounts to 14.64 grams of pure gold. It would depend on what the dealer/jeweler would pay based on recovery costs.
Anyway, you know it's a bit under a half ounce to start with.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Easy to do w/o, though.
.........................
20 DWTs To An Ounce
$740 * .585 = $432.90
$432.90 / 20 = $21.64 per pennyweight
////////////////
14K = .585
18K = .750
24K = 1000
This is a quote from my B&M dealer. The way I had it figured was around $350.00
hmmmmmmmmmm
<< <i>So $150.00 is a little light for 25.1 grams of 14k?
This is a quote from my B&M dealer. The way I had it figured was around $350.00
hmmmmmmmmmm >>
That is waaaay light!
Tells you quite a bit about the dealer right there.
You were figuring in the right neighborhood, given that physical gold is quite a bt over the absurd paper/spot price.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>So $150.00 is a little light for 25.1 grams of 14k?
This is a quote from my B&M dealer. The way I had it figured was around $350.00
hmmmmmmmmmm >>
16.40dwt * $21.64 = $354.89 (approximate full melt value of your stuff.)
Over the counter, I usually try to pay 50% of melt, or less.
In small bucket loads I can get between 85% and 92%, fast, without having to
ship it. If I shipped it, I could get a bit more.
Your buyer would likely only about double his money on your transaction.
/////////////////////////
To convert
from To Multiply by
dwt (pennyweight) grams 1.555
dwt (pennyweight) ounces (avdp) 0.05486
dwt (pennyweight) ounces (troy) 0.05
grams dwt (pennyweight) 0.643
grams ounces (avdp) 0.03527
<< <i>Your buyer would likely only about double his money on your transaction. >>
ONLY!!??
Once again it is confirmed for me that we have much more honest dealers down here than what seems to be in the rest of the country.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
I don't do things in retail that I cannot double my money doing.
Why should I? How could I?
It costs me hundreds just to turn the lights on in the morning.
I am not sitting there for my health. I am there to make money,
and create jobs.
It is far from dishonest to maximize profits.
How much do you buy silver at and how much do you sell it for?
How much do you buy gold at and how much do you sell it for??
Lastly, if a person comes into the store with a rare coin and thinks its just a plain 90% silver junk, and you know its worth lets say 5k, do you just give them junk silver price or tell them how much its worth>
Just curious
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<< <i>I guess "only" is a relative thing.
I don't do things in retail that I cannot double my money doing.
Why should I? How could I?
It costs me hundreds just to turn the lights on in the morning.
I am not sitting there for my health. I am there to make money,
and create jobs.
It is far from dishonest to maximize profits. >>
Spare me the bleeding heart.
The same is true here. I suppose it's all relative. Dealers in a certain locations will operate in collusion and rip everyone equally.
Sounds like you need real competition. Dealers down here actually compete for customers.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>storm888, you own a B&M store?
How much do you buy silver at and how much do you sell it for?
How much do you buy gold at and how much do you sell it for??
Lastly, if a person comes into the store with a rare coin and thinks its just a plain 90% silver junk, and you know its worth lets say 5k, do you just give them junk silver price or tell them how much its worth>
Just curious >>
I think you should already know the answers to those questions.
It's obvious to me.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
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My family owns, operates and invests in Pawn Shops.
In our neighborhoods, we see few not-stolen coins, but a good bit of legit scrap.
We NEVER buy stolen stuff. The police visit us almost everyday. The licenses are
very valuable, and the shady stuff you see on TV is rare.
In the metals.....
We pay as little as possible, BUT we loan as much as possible. We prefer to buy
outright, but if we loan on metals we don't want them redeemed and are more
generous to deter redemptions.
Every transaction is done with an eye toward doubling our money. The model
simply does not work any other way.
We sell coins/metals to coin dealers; no open retail on coins. Harder to get stuff
super cheap, if you have cases full of it marked at high prices.
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<< <i>Anyone have any idea what 25.1 grams of 14k would be worth as scrap gold on todays market? >>
Clicky
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If we see something that is "special," we don't steal it.
But, we are really not interested in parting with our CASH
unless we can make a substantial profit. 10%/20% is NOT
substantial in the pawn business.
Most folks with "special" stuff - and they are rare nowadays - are
sent to one of our coin-dealer friends and we collect from them.
I know my dealer and have been ripped off by them before. I am so glad you guys are around and in defense of Storm88, when my wife and I were in business, I had to triple my costs just to keep the doors open. I know it costs a lot to do business in this day and age with the cost of fuel and the rise in all types of metal costs but I don't have to sell to my dealer at the price quoted to me .
I do appreciate all the info gathered here and I will be selling the scrap gold but you can bet it won't be to my dealer or a pawn shop.
I have several 10k and 14k rings and bracelets that I will be selling on the bay I guess.
Thank you all for the help and info.
Storm is right about the pawn business. They need to buy as cheap as possible also because they end up with a lot of stuff that sits unsold. The operating cost are scary high to do it right. That is simply the nature of Pawn. I like one particular pawn owner in my town because he sends coins to my shop all the time.
I send sellers with decent Digital Cameras-Guitars-Diamonds-Guns Etc that I don't buy. He buys scrap and eagles also but sends me lots of old type stuff because he has no quick market except me to sell those Bust Halves and Large Cents etc.
One final note:
Business (Actual B&M Shops) costs have risen to crazy levels so making a decent profit is the only way to pay the bills, stay in business and run a family unless you can do Silvertowne type volume!!
Mark
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Thanks for all the help guys. This stuff is being sold to help with med bills for me and my mother in law so I need to get as close to full value from everything that I can sell.
You guys on this forum have been great. I will explain a few things in another post soon.
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I'll take one of those
<< <i>For all those questioning and/or attacking dealers for making money: what do you do for a living? Do you do it for free, or for very low pay? Are you involved in manufacturing, marketing, or sales in any way?(think very hard about this one before you answer). If so, you are making a living from the same or much higher markups than the hated dealers. If you think it's OK for you to make money this way but not others then you are a hypocrite. >>
to counter the first/second offer.
If the dealer says, "I can go $100," it is good to ask, "Can you go X."
(X being the amount that makes you more happy.)
The faster you can sell stuff, the less time and gas money you expend
driving from place to place.
Often, dealers will pay more than their first/second offer.
//////////////////
Lots of folks say to me, stuff like:
"I need $X to pay a traffic ticket."
"I have a doctor bill I have to pay and I need $X."
If I can make money, I buy it.
<< <i>seems like it takes 26 responses + to get an answer
I think with prices in the $750 you can get $275-$325 cash in hand from a big dealer. Of course that's in a perfect world!!!
$150 or $175 is too low!!
Mark
Cool, now I don't feel guilty about selling my crude oil for $140/bbl.
<< <i>For all those questioning and/or attacking dealers for making money: what do you do for a living? Do you do it for free, or for very low pay? Are you involved in manufacturing, marketing, or sales in any way?(think very hard about this one before you answer). If so, you are making a living from the same or much higher markups than the hated dealers. If you think it's OK for you to make money this way but not others then you are a hypocrite. >>
In my business, we average around a 3% markup.
That's the nature of a competitive world where different companies can't work in collusion.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
/////////////////////////////////////
That means $1,000,000.00 in goods/services get moved,
and the vendor rakes $30,000.00.
If "markup" means net-profit, that is not necessarily terrible. If "markup"
means something else, then it is definitely extremely terrible.
....
In my entire life, I have never once worried about what anybody else
makes. I am ONLY concerned with what I make.
If I don't like the prices offered by a particular provider, I simply find
another one.
<< <i>"...average around a 3% markup..."
/////////////////////////////////////
That means $1,000,000.00 in goods/services get moved,
and the vendor rakes $30,000.00.
If "markup" means net-profit, that is not necessarily terrible. If "markup"
means something else, then it is definitely extremely terrible. >>
It means gross profit. It's the mark up from cost to sale price. BTW, I can't remember an order anywhere near as small as 1 mil. 100 mil is considered small.
When you deal in multi-billions per quarter, it works out just fine. "Definately exteremely terrible" is laughable.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Thanks Deadhorse. I couldnt figure out how much pure gold it was. Just a old dummy I guess >>
14/24 x number of grams to get pure gram content. Divide grams by 31.1034768 to get weight in troy ounces.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>
It costs me hundreds just to turn the lights on in the morning.
>>
You must have a lot of lights.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>
<< <i>"...average around a 3% markup..."
/////////////////////////////////////
That means $1,000,000.00 in goods/services get moved,
and the vendor rakes $30,000.00.
If "markup" means net-profit, that is not necessarily terrible. If "markup"
means something else, then it is definitely extremely terrible. >>
It means gross profit. It's the mark up from cost to sale price. BTW, I can't remember an order anywhere near as small as 1 mil. 100 mil is considered small.
When you deal in multi-billions per quarter, it works out just fine. "Definately exteremely terrible" is laughable. >>
Of course you are calculating all your expenses, including your salary, into your "costs". Using the same accounting, a dealer paying $5 per ounce for silver and selling at $10 could tack on $4.50 per ounce to cover expenses and say his profit is only $.50 per ounce. But only big companies get to do that, right? There's that hypocrisy again.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"...average around a 3% markup..."
/////////////////////////////////////
That means $1,000,000.00 in goods/services get moved,
and the vendor rakes $30,000.00.
If "markup" means net-profit, that is not necessarily terrible. If "markup"
means something else, then it is definitely extremely terrible. >>
It means gross profit. It's the mark up from cost to sale price. BTW, I can't remember an order anywhere near as small as 1 mil. 100 mil is considered small.
When you deal in multi-billions per quarter, it works out just fine. "Definately exteremely terrible" is laughable. >>
Of course you are calculating all your expenses, including your salary, into your "costs". Using the same accounting, a dealer paying $5 per ounce for silver and selling at $10 could tack on $4.50 per ounce to cover expenses and say his profit is only $.50 per ounce. But only big companies get to do that, right? There's that hypocrisy again. >>
If you need to use $4.50 of every $10 sale towards expenses, you have 1 of 2 problems. Either your volume is miniscule, or your expenses are WAY too high! Based on your OWN numbers, you only need to move 1,000 oz per month (about 50 oz per business day) to generate $4,500 worth of "expenses" money. Unless your shop is in downtown Manhattan, $4,500 EASILY covers expenses. And if your not moving at least 50 oz of silver a day in this market, you need to find another business.
P.S.- Notice we are talking ONLY 50 oz of silver a day and not all the other items you may be selling in addition to this.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"...average around a 3% markup..."
/////////////////////////////////////
That means $1,000,000.00 in goods/services get moved,
and the vendor rakes $30,000.00.
If "markup" means net-profit, that is not necessarily terrible. If "markup"
means something else, then it is definitely extremely terrible. >>
It means gross profit. It's the mark up from cost to sale price. BTW, I can't remember an order anywhere near as small as 1 mil. 100 mil is considered small.
When you deal in multi-billions per quarter, it works out just fine. "Definately exteremely terrible" is laughable. >>
Of course you are calculating all your expenses, including your salary, into your "costs". Using the same accounting, a dealer paying $5 per ounce for silver and selling at $10 could tack on $4.50 per ounce to cover expenses and say his profit is only $.50 per ounce. But only big companies get to do that, right? There's that hypocrisy again. >>
If you need to use $4.50 of every $10 sale towards expenses, you have 1 of 2 problems. Either your volume is miniscule, or your expenses are WAY too high! Based on your OWN numbers, you only need to move 1,000 oz per month (about 50 oz per business day) to generate $4,500 worth of "expenses" money. Unless your shop is in downtown Manhattan, $4,500 EASILY covers expenses. And if your not moving at least 50 oz of silver a day in this market, you need to find another business.
P.S.- Notice we are talking ONLY 50 oz of silver a day and not all the other items you may be selling in addition to this. >>
Thanks for proving you have absolutely no idea what it costs to run a business. My electric bill is $1100-1400/month. I have 17 showcases, all with 6-8 20 watt halogen bulbs each. I have 24 overhead fluorescent fixtures with 4 40 watt bulbs each. I have numerous electronic devices like scales, ultrasonic and steam cleaners for the jewelry, computers, lamps, radios, etc.
I also have employees. They are people like you and Deadhorse who will only work for a decent wage plus benefits. I can't pay them .10 per hour so you can get your silver for .03 per ounce more than my cost. I also have payroll taxes, property taxes, school taxes, and lots of other taxes that require me to hire a CPA(yet another expense) to figure out for me because I am too busy running my business so I can make some money to pay all these expenses and taxes!
I need to maintain a large inventory of both coins and jewelry, because guys like Gecko will come in and say "What? You don't have every coin in every date, mintmark and condition slabbed by three different companies? You don't have every conceivable style of ring/necklace/bracelet in every different quality and size made by every different designer?" I have nine showcases of coins, tons of books/proof sets/supplies on wall displays, 15 showcases full of jewelry plus backup in the safes and it's still never enough. What do you think the opportunity cost of carrying all that inventory is? Go ahead, look it up, I'll wait. If there is anything left after all this I can pay myself a salary.
I have seen people like you who think you are smarter than everyone start a business only to flame out 3-6 months later. It's only then they learn how hard it is to run a profitable business and maybe a little humility. You wouldn't believe the number of "I'm going to rule the world" former autoworkers have taken their buyout money to start a business here in the Detroit area. The harsh reality hits them in only a few months as they realize how easy it was for them to collect their paycheck while their big company lost billions of dollars each quarter. They don't seem to understand that if a small company loses money, the owner does not get paid! But they are so smart. All they have to do is start a business and the millions will roll in, right?
I also have employees. They are people like you and Deadhorse who will only work for a decent wage plus benefits. I can't pay them .10 per hour so you can get your silver for .03 per ounce more than my cost. I also have payroll taxes, property taxes, school taxes, and lots of other taxes that require me to hire a CPA(yet another expense) to figure out for me because I am too busy running my business so I can make some money to pay all these expenses and taxes!
I need to maintain a large inventory of both coins and jewelry, because guys like Gecko will come in and say "What? You don't have every coin in every date, mintmark and condition slabbed by three different companies? You don't have every conceivable style of ring/necklace/bracelet in every different quality and size made by every different designer?" I have nine showcases of coins, tons of books/proof sets/supplies on wall displays, 15 showcases full of jewelry plus backup in the safes and it's still never enough. What do you think the opportunity cost of carrying all that inventory is? Go ahead, look it up, I'll wait. If there is anything left after all this I can pay myself a salary.
I have seen people like you who think you are smarter than everyone start a business only to flame out 3-6 months later. It's only then they learn how hard it is to run a profitable business and maybe a little humility. You wouldn't believe the number of "I'm going to rule the world" former autoworkers have taken their buyout money to start a business here in the Detroit area. The harsh reality hits them in only a few months as they realize how easy it was for them to collect their paycheck while their big company lost billions of dollars each quarter. They don't seem to understand that if a small company loses money, the owner does not get paid! But they are so smart. All they have to do is start a business and the millions will roll in, right?"
You have 17 showcases. 9 for coins, 15 for jewelry.....hmmm, im not math genius, but that makes 24 cases, doesnt it? If you want to talk numbers, at least make the numbers accurate. And with a shop THAT size, surely you are moving more than 1,000 oz of silver per month, not to metion your obscene 400-600% mark-up on jewelry. Yeah, I really feel bad for you and your "struggles".
<< <i>"Thanks for proving you have absolutely no idea what it costs to run a business. My electric bill is $1100-1400/month. I have 17 showcases, all with 6-8 20 watt halogen bulbs each. I have 24 overhead fluorescent fixtures with 4 40 watt bulbs each. I have numerous electronic devices like scales, ultrasonic and steam cleaners for the jewelry, computers, lamps, radios, etc.
I also have employees. They are people like you and Deadhorse who will only work for a decent wage plus benefits. I can't pay them .10 per hour so you can get your silver for .03 per ounce more than my cost. I also have payroll taxes, property taxes, school taxes, and lots of other taxes that require me to hire a CPA(yet another expense) to figure out for me because I am too busy running my business so I can make some money to pay all these expenses and taxes!
I need to maintain a large inventory of both coins and jewelry, because guys like Gecko will come in and say "What? You don't have every coin in every date, mintmark and condition slabbed by three different companies? You don't have every conceivable style of ring/necklace/bracelet in every different quality and size made by every different designer?" I have nine showcases of coins, tons of books/proof sets/supplies on wall displays, 15 showcases full of jewelry plus backup in the safes and it's still never enough. What do you think the opportunity cost of carrying all that inventory is? Go ahead, look it up, I'll wait. If there is anything left after all this I can pay myself a salary.
I have seen people like you who think you are smarter than everyone start a business only to flame out 3-6 months later. It's only then they learn how hard it is to run a profitable business and maybe a little humility. You wouldn't believe the number of "I'm going to rule the world" former autoworkers have taken their buyout money to start a business here in the Detroit area. The harsh reality hits them in only a few months as they realize how easy it was for them to collect their paycheck while their big company lost billions of dollars each quarter. They don't seem to understand that if a small company loses money, the owner does not get paid! But they are so smart. All they have to do is start a business and the millions will roll in, right?"
You have 17 showcases. 9 for coins, 15 for jewelry.....hmmm, im not math genius, but that makes 24 cases, doesnt it? If you want to talk numbers, at least make the numbers accurate. And with a shop THAT size, surely you are moving more than 1,000 oz of silver per month, not to metion your obscene 400-600% mark-up on jewelry. Yeah, I really feel bad for you and your "struggles".
That's what I get for typing in haste. My center "showcase" is oval shaped with 8 segments. It gets counted as 1 case or 8, depending on how you look at it. If you think I am making up these numbers you can come visit my shop and see them for yourself.
600-800% markup on jewelry only happens if you are Tiffany. I can get a 200% markup on an item that retails for $50, but maybe 10-15% on an item that retails for $5000.
You dont get it. "Retail" in the jewelry industry means a 400-600% mark-up. If I bought a $1,000 "retail" piece of jewelry from you....then drove down the road to the next jewelry shop, I'd be LUCKY to get $250 for it. The mark-ups are OBSCENE!!!!
<< <i>"600-800% markup on jewelry only happens if you are Tiffany. I can get a 200% markup on an item that retails for $50, but maybe 10-15% on an item that retails for $5000."
You dont get it. "Retail" in the jewelry industry means a 400-600% mark-up. If I bought a $1,000 "retail" piece of jewelry from you....then drove down the road to the next jewelry shop, I'd be LUCKY to get $250 for it. The mark-ups are OBSCENE!!!! >>
Yep, I don't get it. you know everything. You studied it for 15 minutes on the internet, and you know more than somebody who has made it a career for 20 years. I deserve an 800% markup just for having to deal with arrogant know it alls like you. Don't even try to refute the factual points I have made in my arguments, because you can't. Just keep attacking, it's what you're good at.
<< <i>
<< <i>"600-800% markup on jewelry only happens if you are Tiffany. I can get a 200% markup on an item that retails for $50, but maybe 10-15% on an item that retails for $5000."
You dont get it. "Retail" in the jewelry industry means a 400-600% mark-up. If I bought a $1,000 "retail" piece of jewelry from you....then drove down the road to the next jewelry shop, I'd be LUCKY to get $250 for it. The mark-ups are OBSCENE!!!! >>
Yep, I don't get it. you know everything. You studied it for 15 minutes on the internet, and you know more than somebody who has made it a career for 20 years. I deserve an 800% markup just for having to deal with arrogant know it alls like you. Don't even try to refute the factual points I have made in my arguments, because you can't. Just keep attacking, it's what you're good at. >>
How much do you charge for an 18kt wedding band? Plain band, lets say about 3.0 grams.
<< <i>"600-800% markup on jewelry only happens if you are Tiffany. I can get a 200% markup on an item that retails for $50, but maybe 10-15% on an item that retails for $5000."
You dont get it. "Retail" in the jewelry industry means a 400-600% mark-up. If I bought a $1,000 "retail" piece of jewelry from you....then drove down the road to the next jewelry shop, I'd be LUCKY to get $250 for it. The mark-ups are OBSCENE!!!! >>
Even your extreme example is only a 300% markup, not anywhere near the 400-600 you say here or the 600-800 you said elsewhere.
<< <i>
<< <i>"600-800% markup on jewelry only happens if you are Tiffany. I can get a 200% markup on an item that retails for $50, but maybe 10-15% on an item that retails for $5000."
You dont get it. "Retail" in the jewelry industry means a 400-600% mark-up. If I bought a $1,000 "retail" piece of jewelry from you....then drove down the road to the next jewelry shop, I'd be LUCKY to get $250 for it. The mark-ups are OBSCENE!!!! >>
Even your extreme example is only a 300% markup, not anywhere near the 400-600 you say here or the 600-800 you said elsewhere. >>
You REALLY should try reading these responses rather than just have a knee-jerk reaction. Please show me exactly where I EVER said 600-800%. Im waiting.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"600-800% markup on jewelry only happens if you are Tiffany. I can get a 200% markup on an item that retails for $50, but maybe 10-15% on an item that retails for $5000."
You dont get it. "Retail" in the jewelry industry means a 400-600% mark-up. If I bought a $1,000 "retail" piece of jewelry from you....then drove down the road to the next jewelry shop, I'd be LUCKY to get $250 for it. The mark-ups are OBSCENE!!!! >>
Even your extreme example is only a 300% markup, not anywhere near the 400-600 you say here or the 600-800 you said elsewhere. >>
You REALLY should try reading these responses rather than just have a knee-jerk reaction. Please show me exactly where I EVER said 600-800%. Im waiting.
Please show me mathematically how going from $250-$1000 is a 400%-600% markup.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"600-800% markup on jewelry only happens if you are Tiffany. I can get a 200% markup on an item that retails for $50, but maybe 10-15% on an item that retails for $5000."
You dont get it. "Retail" in the jewelry industry means a 400-600% mark-up. If I bought a $1,000 "retail" piece of jewelry from you....then drove down the road to the next jewelry shop, I'd be LUCKY to get $250 for it. The mark-ups are OBSCENE!!!! >>
Even your extreme example is only a 300% markup, not anywhere near the 400-600 you say here or the 600-800 you said elsewhere. >>
You REALLY should try reading these responses rather than just have a knee-jerk reaction. Please show me exactly where I EVER said 600-800%. Im waiting.
Please show me mathematically how going from $250-$1000 is a 400%-600% markup. >>
That is a 300% mark-up....but notice my choice of words in my post "I'd be LUCKY (key word) to get $250 for it".
<< <i>Gecko109, you're way out of your league here. You don't have a clue about the reality of running a business. >>
I know for a FACT that you will almost NEVER recoup more than 25% of your initial outlay when buying jewelry at "retail".