September 29, 2008 - Manic Monday
renman95
Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭
House rejects bailout bill.
Dow down 700
Recover to 445 down
The reconsider failed
Dow falling 545 points
Analyst says the 700 down could be retested by close
Ren
Gold up 27.70 to 905
Plat down 43 to 1058
Silver down .26 to 13.05
ed 4 metals
Dow down 700
Recover to 445 down
The reconsider failed
Dow falling 545 points
Analyst says the 700 down could be retested by close
Ren
Gold up 27.70 to 905
Plat down 43 to 1058
Silver down .26 to 13.05
ed 4 metals
0
Comments
There will come a time to reverse positions, but now is not that time IMHO.
<< <i>Happy to currently be on the sidelines for the last few months in the market. However I am comfortable with my strengthening position in PM's.
There will come a time to reverse positions, but now is not that time IMHO. >>
Smoeone is in a big hurry to buy these up.
roadrunner
I knew it would happen.
I was watching CNBC at the close of the markets. As the bell rang, the Dow was off 598. As the talking heads were talking the settling continued...603, 625, 659, 689, 703 and twelve minutes after the bell it was at 738.
The S&P 500 had the same settling, down over 100.
Looks like a lot of institutions wanted to get out in the last minutes.
Ren
"... we must insulate main street from wall street ? "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I thought main street is why wall street existed.
~edited to add quotation marks and put space between me and whoever said that.~
One way to spark the economy would be 2 dollar gas.....
<< <i>good side to all this, oil tanked 11 dollars a barrel..And expected to tank another 10 bucks tomorrow..
One way to spark the economy would be 2 dollar gas.....
Also i see this, as a great buying oppertuinity!
if i was truly bullish on gold this would make me wonder... truly
wonder why they are not performing much much better.
which is why i shall try the middleman path. i just want a cut.
Visit my son's caringbridge page @ Runner's Caringbridge Page
"To Give Anything Less than Your Best, Is to Sacrifice the Gift" - Steve Prefontaine
<< <i>Official close was -777 for the largest one day loss in history passing that of September 11, 2001. A very very bad day if you ask me and there is certainly more to come. At one point treasury bonds were actually in the negative indicating that people were willing to pay a premium to throw money into them. >>
Points loss and % loss are two different goats... This drop doesn't even place in the top ten in % drops...
The market only lost 1.2 trillion today....
R
<< <i>good side to all this, oil tanked 11 dollars a barrel..And expected to tank another 10 bucks tomorrow..
One way to spark the economy would be 2 dollar gas.....
maybe i was thinking a steady $70 by December, demand will NOT increase though but will feel much better in the wallet!
people can't run to their house and "ATM" a new Suburban like they could a couple of years ago. even if they could now, they wouldn't...
Cosmic meaning?
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
value - has much merit.
////////
6. What is a distribution on account of an unforeseeable emergency under a 457(b) plan?
Under a 457(b) plan, a hardship distribution can only occur when the participant is faced with an unforeseeable emergency. (Code § 457(d)(1)(iii))
An unforeseeable emergency is a severe financial hardship resulting from an illness or accident, loss of property due to casualty, or other similar extraordinary and unforeseeable circumstances arising as a result of events beyond the control of the participant or beneficiary. Examples of events that may be considered unforeseeable emergencies include imminent foreclosure on, or eviction from, the employee's home, medical expenses, and funeral expenses. Generally, the purchase of a home and the payment of college tuition are not unforeseeable emergencies.
(Reg. § 1.457-6(c)(2)(i))
Whether a participant or beneficiary is faced with an unforeseeable emergency depends on the facts and circumstances. However, a distribution is not on account of an unforeseeable emergency to the extent that the emergency can be relieved through reimbursement or compensation from insurance, liquidation of the participant's assets, or cessation of deferrals under the plan. (Reg. § 1.457-6(c)(2)(ii))
A distribution on account of an unforeseeable emergency must not exceed the amount reasonably necessary to satisfy the emergency need. (Reg. § 1.457-6(c)(2)(iii))
all this mess and gold only around 900 and silver around 13.
if i was truly bullish on gold this would make me wonder... truly
wonder why they are not performing much much better.
Let's not forget that gold took a $140 haircut down to $850 for what most "analysts" have called routine profit taking. Then out of the blue took another $100 haircut for more "routine profit taking." Only that profit taking lasted for days. Is it standard fare to have markets rebound within days, the entire amount of the "profit-taking" and then another 5%? Something continues to stink here. The gold stocks are beaten down to levels that existed back at $400-$500/oz. Much more here than meets the eye. Trying to decipher gold's "performance" in a vacuum will not work.
Gold is back on its long term "parabolic" curve despit efforts to discredit it. It will perform in due time. If everyone could guess the launch time, too many people would be onboard...and it would be too heavy to launch. The strength in gold has been demonstrated by a never-before seen $170 short-term recovery. The fact that there are shortages of 1 ounce coin and bars speaks to strength. Just today, $20 Libs and Saints moved up 10% indicating a shortage in the generic slabbed gold market as well. Sounds like the fire alarms are going off all around town. But the bell in the fire house showing the price of gold is apparently silent due to being stuffed with towels courtesy of the PPT.
roadrunner
<< <i>I am not sure that cashing-out such an account - if it has already lost substantial
value - has much merit.
////////
6. What is a distribution on account of an unforeseeable emergency under a 457(b) plan?
Under a 457(b) plan, a hardship distribution can only occur when the participant is faced with an unforeseeable emergency. (Code § 457(d)(1)(iii))
An unforeseeable emergency is a severe financial hardship resulting from an illness or accident, loss of property due to casualty, or other similar extraordinary and unforeseeable circumstances arising as a result of events beyond the control of the participant or beneficiary. Examples of events that may be considered unforeseeable emergencies include imminent foreclosure on, or eviction from, the employee's home, medical expenses, and funeral expenses. Generally, the purchase of a home and the payment of college tuition are not unforeseeable emergencies.
(Reg. § 1.457-6(c)(2)(i))
Whether a participant or beneficiary is faced with an unforeseeable emergency depends on the facts and circumstances. However, a distribution is not on account of an unforeseeable emergency to the extent that the emergency can be relieved through reimbursement or compensation from insurance, liquidation of the participant's assets, or cessation of deferrals under the plan. (Reg. § 1.457-6(c)(2)(ii))
A distribution on account of an unforeseeable emergency must not exceed the amount reasonably necessary to satisfy the emergency need. (Reg. § 1.457-6(c)(2)(iii)) >>
I was able to move it into money market and bonds before the plunge today and the bond fund I put it in was actually up 1.9% today. It hasn't dropped badly, but rather stayed the same.
I also read that, yeah, I cannot cash it out unless an unforeseeable emergency occurs. I had an aortic dissection last month and spent four days in the hospital including a little over a day in ICU. I have insurance, but I think this will qualify me. Between crappy markets and bills I expect to start rolling in soon I want to start keeping my store of wealth nearby and accessable.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
<< <i>I would say that the nation's major banks and mortgage lenders going bankrupt is certainly one heck of an "unforseeable emergency" to the average Joe.
all this mess and gold only around 900 and silver around 13.
if i was truly bullish on gold this would make me wonder... truly
wonder why they are not performing much much better.
Let's not forget that gold took a $140 haircut down to $850 for what most "analysts" have called routine profit taking. Then out of the blue took another $100 haircut for more "routine profit taking." Only that profit taking lasted for days. Is it standard fare to have markets rebound within days, the entire amount of the "profit-taking" and then another 5%? Something continues to stink here. The gold stocks are beaten down to levels that existed back at $400-$500/oz. Much more here than meets the eye. Trying to decipher gold's "performance" in a vacuum will not work.
Gold is back on its long term "parabolic" curve despit efforts to discredit it. It will perform in due time. If everyone could guess the launch time, too many people would be onboard...and it would be too heavy to launch. The strength in gold has been demonstrated by a never-before seen $170 short-term recovery. The fact that there are shortages of 1 ounce coin and bars speaks to strength. Just today, $20 Libs and Saints moved up 10% indicating a shortage in the generic slabbed gold market as well. Sounds like the fire alarms are going off all around town. But the bell in the fire house showing the price of gold is apparently silent due to being stuffed with towels courtesy of the PPT.
roadrunner >>
I know this much roadrunner. I've dismissed many of your posts in the past, but now I'm on board fully. I'm sick of these politicians and their fingerpointing and the govt' tossing printed paper at problems in a quick fix and then just printing more money out of thin air to cover the costs. I'm done with my 457. I'm going to adjust my W4 to where I get little back at tax time. I want to keep my stores of wealth nearby and accessible. I'm starting out by doing some serious selling of junk we have laying around here on ebay and converting earnings to silver or gold. I've been in my 457 for about 7-8 years and besides one year has been an overall loser. The funds they let us choose from are losers. The folks that I know that have been in it forever said they only saw some real gains in the late 90s. Bullcrap! I'm done!!!
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
Silver is an industrial metal....and not the haven like gold.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
<< <i>
<< <i>Official close was -777 for the largest one day loss in history passing that of September 11, 2001. A very very bad day if you ask me and there is certainly more to come. At one point treasury bonds were actually in the negative indicating that people were willing to pay a premium to throw money into them. >>
Points loss and % loss are two different goats... This drop doesn't even place in the top ten in % drops...
The market only lost 1.2 trillion today.... >>
You are absolutely right that percentage loss and point loss are 2 different beasts. But regardless of where this falls as an actual percentage drop, Losing 777 point or about 7% of the market share in one day is definitely a major setback. And given the fact that there is no forseeable end in sight could be an indicator of things too come.
The Nikkei is already down 350 and is usually a better indicator than the DJ futures index of what lies ahead after sunrise in the States.
Not too mention European Banks are now starting to fail as well...meaning that the bubonic plaque that is our economy is spreading like wildfire and has become a global pandemic of financial ruin.
Visit my son's caringbridge page @ Runner's Caringbridge Page
"To Give Anything Less than Your Best, Is to Sacrifice the Gift" - Steve Prefontaine
Mike, I'm on Pre's trail almost daily. and I'm 68
<< <i>"To Give Anything Less than Your Best, Is to Sacrifice the Gift" - Steve Prefontaine
Mike, I'm on Pre's trail almost daily. and I'm 68 >>
You don't know how envious I am!! I train about 60 miles a week and am on the roads 5 out of 7 days a week. The other 2 days I either run at a local park or drive about 20 miles to find some decent trails. I presume you live within a stones throw of the trails?
Visit my son's caringbridge page @ Runner's Caringbridge Page
"To Give Anything Less than Your Best, Is to Sacrifice the Gift" - Steve Prefontaine
<< <i>what about platinum. Is it safe at the current level? >>
My opinion is no. If you assume that we are going into a deep recession/depression there will be little demand in new cars with catalytic converters.
We could easily see platinum fall below gold. Someone put up a chart of when that happened last...can't remember the date....last century sometime.
Ren
<< <i>all this mess and gold only around 900 and silver around 13.
if i was truly bullish on gold this would make me wonder... truly
wonder why they are not performing much much better.
which is why i shall try the middleman path. i just want a cut. >>
I strongly suspect that the "no" vote has restored confidence (at least temporarily) in the dollar, hence the price of oil falling. In fact, its a wonder that gold/silver didnt actually fall. Its scared wall street stock money that is proping up PMs....for the moment at least.
<< <i>Helter Skelter!!
Silver is an industrial metal....and not the haven like gold. >>
Thats all the more reason why silver SHOULD outperform gold in the coming years. Could we do without jewelry if we had to? Yes. Could we do without the hundreds of industries that rely heavily on silver? It would be substantially more difficult. Gold is a pretty, yellow, soft metal. Its value is more psycological than anything else.
Our two fearless leaders of the future voted for it before they voted against during high noon on or near an equinox...
Now, they both say they are for it.
Now the Senate want to vote on a "streamlined" bailout bill.
Time to make those calls again.
The market acts like all is well, talking heads say what crisis, this is a scam and there was no crisis....stupid sheeple.
End of quarter and month window dressing.
Do the sheeple actually believe that all is well.
Don't they know tomorrow is October and next year is 2009 when more "good" news comes.
Sheeple!
Ren