"cleaned" coin values...update...thanks all
luckyman
Posts: 721
Just checking in with the experts here. I would like to know what the percentage loss is on a coin that is slabbed and certified as "cleaned".
Is there a 50% loss of value, 75%? Any set %? or does it depend on the coin itself....thanks
Is there a 50% loss of value, 75%? Any set %? or does it depend on the coin itself....thanks
....and in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make....
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Well, I took a leap of faith on this one. Seemed to me like a good value at under $500 ... what do you think?
I don't have the grey sheet. What would the grey sheet value this coin if not "cleaned" in au55? thanks..
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was indeed a leap of faith" , the implication is "DOH!" . What value would you give this coin?
and here I thought I was getting much better at evaluating coins....well, the beat goes on, live and learn.
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But when rarity is involved then you really need to factor in how accessible is a problem free example. How soon will be able to obtain one. And many times the qoute unqoute problem frees are just less problem coins that get slabbed anyways.
due to its rarity... I do like it and I would never be able to afford this coin if not for the cleaned status. You really didn't hurt my feelings. I
appreciate your input and any others that might chime in....thanks
edited to add....by the way VAM experts....take a look and tell me if you see anything that my untrained eye doesn't ...
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NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I would definately crack the coin out and put it in my album set though. IMO its more valuable out of the plastic.
<< <i>If you are a true collector, it makes little to no difference... if you are an elitist, it makes all the difference >>
Hmm...not sure about that one. What if I am a collector of original, uncleaned coins? I'm not an elitist, I'm a collector of a specific type of coin in that scenario.
http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2565&lot=1942
link
This shiny coin might be someone working on a MS set on commons but can't afford the MS grades for better dates.
A PCGS XF45 for $425
http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2566&lot=1827
link
Cleaned ICG XF45 for $170
link3
Heritage archives will turn up many, many more examples.
As a rule of thumb, problem coins tend to have a limited audience. Dealers will either make no offer, or offer very little. Problem coins tend to be easy to buy, tough to sell. Many collectors don't want problem coins at all. $500 might be a fair retail price. The coin you bought isn't the best example of a cleaned AU55. Wholesale price on the cleaned coin is typically going to be much lower, so you'll have to find another collector that buys problem coins to get anywhere close to your money out. I believe a majority would prefer the XF45 PCGS coin for a bit less money, and that coin would be far easier to sell. Many budget minded collectors would go for something like the ICG cleaned coin for a lot less money than you paid.
Maybe get real lucky and get it into a holder another day.
Just wondering.
I think it's a neat piece as it sits. Key's are expensive. If "cleaned" doesn't bother you then keep the coin and enjoy it. If "cleaned" bothers you now, you won't like the coin more latter, either return it or sell it.
A 90% discount seems pretty good to me.
What's the big deal if a coin has been cleaned?? According to my readings, it was common in the 1800's to clean coins and make them brilliant and white - the more shiny the better. Ive found that many coins from this era were cleaned and found their way into an album and over time develop beautiful rainbow colors - is it still a cleaned coin?? if you see faint hairlines, does it take away from the beauty and originality of the coin?? I guess everyone each to their own, but a nicely done cleaning that leaves the surfaces as original as possible is OK by me - one step further - an "old" cleaning with nice NT in the AU range gets the adrenaline flowing - anyone else feel the same way??
Im sure this topic has been discussed before on this forum!!
just completed 3d tour to Iraq and retired after 28+ years in the US Army
look in the seller's listing. They do have a return policy if it is just not acceptable, but we'll hope for the best. Maybe I will crack it out if
I think it has a chance of grading without the "cleaned" designation. I found it interesting that ANACS didn't use the phrase "AU details" on
the slab which they normally do on a "cleaned" or other problem coin. Instead it just says AU55 and then a separate line saying cleaned.
Maybe they changed the way they use terminology on their slabs. This is a newer version of their slabs. Once again, thanks for the info.
Edited to add: I wanted a certified coin. If I had purchased this raw, probably for a lot more money, then found out through body bagging
that it was either cleaned or a counterfeit, it would have been too late to return it to the seller. That's one value that a TPG gives you,
peace of mind.
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<< <i>If they were recovered from a shipwreck its alright if they were cleaned. They even increase in value. >>
Not necessarily - especially so for the majority of knowledgeable collectors.
To the OP - the coin looks very aggressively graded for an AU55, at least through the photos. Weak strike or not, the wear looks for consistant with an EF coin. You can tell us about remaining luster when you receive it.
I think that it's a great coin to crack out and enjoy raw in a Dansco.
I look forward to seeing photos of the coin when you get it in hand.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
i think blinded was even being nice there as i can't see details of it making it past vf
That is a bogus slab, no question about it. Get your money back, don't pay, do whatever. If you wind up paying for it, you're completely buried. It's a VF details coin at best.
<< <i>this discussion brings up a question that Ive been itching to asked for a long time:
What's the big deal if a coin has been cleaned?? According to my readings, it was common in the 1800's to clean coins and make them brilliant and white - the more shiny the better. Ive found that many coins from this era were cleaned and found their way into an album and over time develop beautiful rainbow colors - is it still a cleaned coin?? if you see faint hairlines, does it take away from the beauty and originality of the coin?? I guess everyone each to their own, but a nicely done cleaning that leaves the surfaces as original as possible is OK by me - one step further - an "old" cleaning with nice NT in the AU range gets the adrenaline flowing - anyone else feel the same way??
Im sure this topic has been discussed before on this forum!! >>
no, I prefer originality
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>RETURN THAT 92-S IMMEDIATELY.
That is a bogus slab, no question about it. Get your money back, don't pay, do whatever. If you wind up paying for it, you're completely buried. It's a VF details coin at best. >>
Yeah I have to agree... As i was reading the thread I was kind of stunned watching everyone buzz around cleaned coin values without mentioning the fact that that coin wasn't even remotely close to AU detailed. I'd prefer to think it was a fake slab rather than think it was actually graded by someone at ANACS.
As for cleaned coin values... As most have said, it runs the gamut. If that were a true AU details coin - you'd have gotten a great deal IMO.
<< <i>RETURN THAT 92-S IMMEDIATELY.
That is a bogus slab, no question about it. Get your money back, don't pay, do whatever. If you wind up paying for it, you're completely buried. It's a VF details coin at best. >>
How can you tell the slab is fake? The fact that the coin looks over graded?
<< <i>
<< <i>RETURN THAT 92-S IMMEDIATELY.
That is a bogus slab, no question about it. Get your money back, don't pay, do whatever. If you wind up paying for it, you're completely buried. It's a VF details coin at best. >>
How can you tell the slab is fake? The fact that the coin looks over graded? >>
font is a little iffy, grade is off way too much to even be considered "overgraded." Lots of experience with Morgans and especially experience with this date makes me confident in this. There's no doubt it's fake.
Ken
Appears to be cleaned long ago.
It would make a great addition to my Morgan Dansco album...
like this one. I will contact them tomorrow and see if I can get a handle on this. I don't want to involve the seller just yet, he has 100%
positive feedback on over 6100 previous sales. No obvious red flags on this listing or seller....$2000 paypal protection...etc....
I hope you are wrong about this being a fake. I did pay with a credit card so I will be ready to call them if necessary. Spoiled a good
evening. Once before however I was alerted on these boards about a fraudulent situation that I was able to resolve without a loss.
So I take it seriously when I get this overview and consensus opinion. Thanks, and I'll update what happens.
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Real coins in fake slabs at a higher grade is one of the nightmare scenarios.
Ken
<< <i>ANACS can't do anything about self slabbers. Bidders must look very closely at auctions. Side by side below.
Ken >>
ANACS has had so many changes it is hard to keep track. They have had at least three different versions of the new holder that you show. They have also used the small holder for problem coins. Yes, they have. This is NOT self-slabbed, it is a fake slab if ANACS did not issue it, because it has the ANACS logo prominently displayed, a serial number and bar code.
There has been at least one other report on this forum of a fake ANACS slab, the same type displayed here, the old small holder with the new blue font label. Other collectors have also seen real ANACS holdered coins in the same type of holder. Whether this particular coin was entombed by ANACS or is a fake slab, it would be nice to hear directly from ANACS.
/edit to add: Personally, there is a growing list of coins that I will not buy from anonymous sellers, slabbed or raw. The fake slab problem is likely to explode in the coming years. A visually perfect fake slab (easy task) with a real coin at a higher grade or a high quality fake coin would fool the vast majority of collectors.
<< <i>I just got back online to read to my shock that I may have been duped. I checked with ANACS website and did not see a holder pictured
like this one. I will contact them tomorrow and see if I can get a handle on this. I don't want to involve the seller just yet, he has 100%
positive feedback on over 6100 previous sales. No obvious red flags on this listing or seller....$2000 paypal protection...etc....
I hope you are wrong about this being a fake. I did pay with a credit card so I will be ready to call them if necessary. Spoiled a good
evening. Once before however I was alerted on these boards about a fraudulent situation that I was able to resolve without a loss.
So I take it seriously when I get this overview and consensus opinion. Thanks, and I'll update what happens. >>
Don't hesitate. This is not a "maybe" situation. The slab is a no-doubt fake, despite the seller's credentials. It probably was a piece that slipped by him as well.
Inform the seller and get your money back immediately.
http://www.sampleslabs.com/anacs.html
<< <i>If you are a true collector, it makes little to no difference... if you are an elitist, it makes all the difference. Cheers, RickO >>
This thread has gone in two directions. I agree that the shown Morgan doesn't quite look up to the grade listed by the slab.
As far as the original question, Rick hit the nail on the head. If a coin is what you want, it has value. Collecting should be a personal choice. Somebody else got it right about earlier collectors who often made their collection more attractive to them be cleaning their coins. It's done now by using "MS70" and other dips. The key to my reply is the 'personal choice' words. Enjoy collecting.
<< <i>ANACS can't do anything about self slabbers. Bidders must look very closely at auctions. Side by side below.
Ken >>
Here is a hopefully real ANACS problem coin in the same old holder and blue font
http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2564&lot=1694
link
Again, it would be nice to hear from ANACS directly as to whether they slabbed the coin that was bought or not. As readers can see, there is a lot of confusion. The fonts look very close on the supposed real slab and the supposed fake to me. The one from Teletrade does have "Details" on the grade line, but I do think they also went without that for a short time. Again, there have been lots of changes at ANACS recently.
Sorry.....
Ken
Appears to be cleaned long ago.
I agree
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<< <i>That's what I meant about "leap of faith" when I originally posted. The coin is either in a fake slab, or someone cracked a real slab and put a different coin in. Unfortunate. I hope it all works out! >>
Does ANACS now remove the word "Details" from the Grade Description? I noticed in RedTiger's post that the EF 40 says "EF 40 Details" whereas the AU 55 just says "AU 55"