How difficult is it for a knowledgeable dealer to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
In another thread, a very prominent professional dealer made the following comment,
“It bugs me more when a thread has a ton of replies from people who really don't know what they are talking about and give the original poster the wrong answer. It’s like the blind leading the blind.”
We clearly have some experts on these boards, and also have some people who mean well, but do not always provide the most accurate information. On a topic that is near and dear to my heart (taxes), there are frequently threads where people get into a debate on tax issues, how to report (or not report) income, etc. Most times, however, the information is plain wrong, and it is difficult for me to restrain myself (as an aside, I wonder why a discussion about interventional radiology and recent methods and practices never breaks out on these boards).
For the knowledgeable dealers (or other very knowledgeable collectors), how difficult is it for you to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation that occurs on these boards?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
I try to help/add info where I can but there is alot I am still learning myself.
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>(as an aside, I wonder why a discussion about interventional radiology and recent methods and practices never breaks out on these boards). >>
That's easy, because RYK, mgoodm3, and myself want to talk coins and not something that's "work".
For those who don't know, I'm not a M.D., just the person who takes the pretty pictures that the Dr.'s look at.
-wes
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
There are no blabby newbies on this forum.
There are no intolerant cranky old farts.
There are only educated numismatists.
As far as posting information I might have,I try to be as careful as I can because I don't want to purposely misinform folks.
My best advice would be for folks to put the filter on and decide for themselves what information they care about and also be willing to do their own research.As for correcting all the misinformation,forget about it.That would be a losing battle.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>For the knowledgeable dealers (or other very knowledgeable collectors), how difficult is it for you to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation that occurs on these boards? >>
I don't consider myself a "very knowledgeable collector" (at least compared to some around here), but I don't have any problem whatsoever correcting inaccurate posts by others. Sometimes my responses are blunt (particularly if the misinformation was presented bluntly or authoritatively), but the intent is always to set the record straight (or at least straight as I see it)....Mike
"How difficult is it for a knowledgeable dealer to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation that occurs here?"
Why would a "knowledgeable" dealer want to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation that occurs here?.
I would think they would post the correct information to help those that are so misinformed.
<< <i>"How difficult is it for a knowledgeable dealer to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation that occurs here?"
Why would a "knowledgeable" dealer want to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation that occurs here?.
I would think they would post the correct information to help those that are so misinformed. >>
..............
It is sometimes frustrating to watch the misinformation get tossed around. What is more frustrating, however, are the questions that appear here that could be very easily answered with even the most basic numismatic library. I wish more of the new collectors realized that not all (or most) numismatic information can be found online, but that a library with 10-15 titles in it might well cover the lion'share of information they'd find relevant or interesting.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
There are too many people on here that try to come across as knowing it all, without the credentials, and don't state that it is opinion or was based on an actual circumstance (and give that circumstance).
Kind of like those that blanketly state SAEs can't tone, naturally, in a very short time. Kind of like those that state the USPS won't pay out on items that are DC'ed but that the recipient claims to not have received....etc etc etc
Do, since you know taxes, if you actually know the answer, why not share your knowledge, if so inclined?
As for me....I try to help out with knowledge, where I can. If I don't have the knowledge to help, I try not to give out erroroneous info. To me, the hobby/forum is all about sharing and learning....and having fun.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>"How difficult is it for a knowledgeable dealer to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation that occurs here?"
Why would a "knowledgeable" dealer want to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation that occurs here?.
I would think they would post the correct information to help those that are so misinformed. >>
..............
Me too.
Ken
<< <i>Why, exactly, do you assume a 'knowlegeable' individual must be a dealer?? Quite frankly, while there are knowledgeable dealers.. I have seen far more dealers that are very uninformed.... to the point it makes me wonder why they are dealing in coins... some comments/discussions at coin shows leave me bewidered. The dealers have no clue about very important issues/items/numismatic lore. Cheers, RickO >>
Totally agree. I've made similar observations.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Why, exactly, do you assume a 'knowlegeable' individual must be a dealer?? >>
He didn't:
For the knowledgeable dealers (or other very knowledgeable collectors), how difficult is it for you to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation that occurs on these boards?
<< <i>In another thread, a very prominent professional dealer made the following comment,
“It bugs me more when a thread has a ton of replies from people who really don't know what they are talking about and give the original poster the wrong answer. It’s like the blind leading the blind.”
We clearly have some experts on these boards, and also have some people who mean well, but do not always provide the most accurate information. On a topic that is near and dear to my heart (taxes), there are frequently threads where people get into a debate on tax issues, how to report (or not report) income, etc. Most times, however, the information is plain wrong, and it is difficult for me to restrain myself (as an aside, I wonder why a discussion about interventional radiology and recent methods and practices never breaks out on these boards).
For the knowledgeable dealers (or other very knowledgeable collectors), how difficult is it for you to refrain from correcting all of the misinformation that occurs on these boards? >>
Maybe you shud introduce these dealers to the PM function or they can always email the info to a trusted friend who will see that it gets posted. Hopefully the comment/corrective statement will be about facts well known to the business and not just some dealer's personal preferences or business practices. Frankly what this place needs is a good no holds barred dirt board.
<< <i>
Do, since you know taxes, if you actually know the answer, why not share your knowledge, if so inclined?
>>
See, there ya' go. I thought tax law, like all law, was mostly just a matter of opinion.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Do, since you know taxes, if you actually know the answer, why not share your knowledge, if so inclined?
>>
See, there ya' go. I thought tax law, like all law, was mostly just a matter of opinion.
Have you ever seen the cost of a written tax law opinion on a transaction? Shhheesh...it makes the fees dealers charge look like nothing.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
I would like to think that some of my posts clear up misinformation or are educational. I know at least a few are.
Many of my posts, however, are silly nothingness, and I am sure there has been a time or two when I was the one unknowingly spreading the misinformation.
Ain't nobody perfect, even the most knowledgeable among us. (And of the ones who went before, Walter Breen seems an ideal example of somebody full of knowledge who nonetheless spread a little misinformation at times, knowingly or unknowingly.)
That's the thing about numismatics, and most fields of study. No matter how big your brain or your britches, there is seemingly always somebody bigger than you and always somebody smaller. The wisest sage can sometimes learn a thing or two from the lowliest fool, too.
Many of our wiser sages here are more of the silent lurking types, only occasionally venturing out to post a concise, well-reasoned answer. Most of the wise ones read more and post less, unlike yours truly.
<< <i>I'm a knowledgeable guy, in many ways (jack of all trades and master of none, haha).
I would like to think that some of my posts clear up misinformation or are educational. I know at least a few are.
Many of my posts, however, are silly nothingness, and I am sure there has been a time or two when I was the one unknowingly spreading the misinformation.
Ain't nobody perfect, even the most knowledgeable among us. (And of the ones who went before, Walter Breen seems an ideal example of somebody full of knowledge who nonetheless spread a little misinformation at times, knowingly or unknowingly.)
That's the thing about numismatics, and most fields of study. No matter how big your brain or your britches, there is seemingly always somebody bigger than you and always somebody smaller. The wisest sage can sometimes learn a thing or two from the lowliest fool, too.
Many of our wiser sages here are more of the silent lurking types, only occasionally venturing out to post a concise, well-reasoned answer. Most of the wise ones read more and post less, unlike yours truly. >>
Per Ptahhotep:
circa 2400 BC
(43) "Don't let your heart get big because of your knowledge.
(44) Take counsel with the ignorant as well as with the scholar.
(45) (For) the limits of art are not brought,
(46) (and) no artisan is equipped with perfection.(12)
(47) Good discourse is more hidden than green stone,(13)
(48) yet may be found among the maids at the grindstones.(14)
http://www.maat.sofiatopia.org/ptahhotep.htm
did i spell that right? arithmatic, a-rith=matic;
think i will go set or sit in the corner and play with my coins.
<< <i>I am not a prominent dealer! But thanks for the compliment.
I try to help/add info where I can but there is alot I am still learning myself.
Cameron Kiefer >>
All of you ex third party graders that go into business for yourself are modest.
Ray
<< <i>
<< <i>
Do, since you know taxes, if you actually know the answer, why not share your knowledge, if so inclined?
>>
See, there ya' go. I thought tax law, like all law, was mostly just a matter of opinion.
It probably wouldn't be that hard to get differing answers from several "experts" if you asked all of them the same question; and these are questions which shud likely have a black and white answer. There are always comments here about different answers to the same question given by different postal clerks in different areas. It seems to me that if you take 10 postal clerks from 10 different states who have each been at their job for at least 10 years, that you should get the same answer to the same question [presented to each clerk] from all 10 of them, but I bet you don't.
as an aside, I wonder why a discussion about interventional radiology and recent methods and practices never breaks out on these boards
A very prominent member of this forum has discussed two IR-related that he was personally experiencing, and Barry has asked me a radiology question or two ove the years (I got him back by asking him whether I should get glasses). To my knowledge, I am the only interventional radiologist on this forum. IIRC, Nic is a neuroradiologist, Lakesammman is a head-and-neck radiologist, and mgoodm3 is a general radiologist. Most people (including my mother) do not know or understand what an interventional radiologist does, so it would be hard for such a discussion to break out here. Everyone pays taxes, though.
<< <i> Most people (including my mother) do not know or understand what an interventional radiologist does, so it would be hard for such a discussion to break out here. >>
Here is one at work.
I am guilty of a lot of "nice coin" posts largely because many of the coins I see posted here are far nicer than anything I see here in Baton Rouge. I really enjoy it when people post their new coins or acquisitions, whether they are MS-67 or AG-03. If I like it, I like to let the poster know that I find his/her coin attractive.
When I make an error or do not express myself well, there are a few people who have PM'ed me to let me know that I am mistaken. I always appreciate this because it furthers my numismatic education without the need of publicly making me feel like an uneducated jackass in front of the whole forum. (You know who you are, and I appreciate it)
-Randy Newman
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>I thought your post count determined your level of expertise? >>
Nah. Cheet posts can be had by one and all.
It is easy to refrain correcting some things because, no matter how many times I try, somebody will always misspell nickel.
That is: For some, it's excruciatingly difficult. For others, it's effortless. And the vast majority probably have a reasonably easy time refraining because they don't have time and/or don't want to publicly embarrass the misinformed posters.
If someone posts something that is so far out there, I don't even think about responding.
Mostly, I will respond if I see someone post a common misconception.
Then again honestly I often see questions to which I know the answer or statements that I know are false but I just don't feel like
getting involved because I am not in the mood to potentially have to defend my statements that I know are true....
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
edit:spelling
<< <i>
There are too many people on here that try to come across as knowing it all, without the credentials, and don't state that it is opinion or was based on an actual circumstance (and give that circumstance).
Kind of like those that state the USPS won't pay out on items that are DC'ed but that the recipient claims to not have received....etc etc etc. >>
Of course the postal manual at http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm300/609.htm states:
4.3 Nonpayable Claims
Indemnity is not paid for insured mail, Registered Mail, COD, or Express Mail in these situations:
a. Evidence of insurance coverage not provided.
b. Loss, rifling, or damage occurred after delivery by the USPS.
I know where the knowledgeable folk are coming from. I post on several NASCAR message boards where I know a heck of a lot more about the history of the sport then most of the other members. Yet when I try to share that info, and have proof, even photos to prove it-I'm called an elitist and generally heckled and overall disliked, even to a point of nearly giving up even trying.
It's no fun when you know, reasonably well, and verifyiably well that you are correct but people either don't care or get mad at you for saying it.
In fact, every time a read a new NASCAR book, I make note of what they've gotten wrong or glossed over or had incomplete. I have not found a book yet that has not had some demerit-no MS70s there!
As a new collector, this is my 6th month as a collector, in fact, I do not know much about coins. I'm learning, and much of that comes from reading threads here and various books-I buy them when I can afford it but that's not too often, unfortunatly. I'm still asking lots of questions, far more then I am answering them (except, of cource, general interest, like what's your favorite year Barber or some such) and I certainly hope that the answers I recieve are correct-you can't build a knowledge base with no knowledge. (Even well meaning people who happen to be wrong-it happens, and I am certainly not immune to plenty of wrongness!)....after all, Knowledge is Power.
We also should thank collectors who have become specialists and really have an excellent understanding and knowledge of various coins that share their thoughts.
Like anything, there will always be misinformation or certain opinions may carry more clout based on the experience of the dealer or collector.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Sometimes it can be very difficult and frustrating because you see posts with information that you know for a fact is totally wrong then when you attempt to make corrections other forum members become defensive or hostile while accusing you of misinformation. >>
I'm by no means a professional, but I do have areas I've studied a fair amount. There have been times where I've responded to threads giving information I knew was correct (and on a few occasions I actually had the original documents in front of me to prove it), but was accused of giving false info.
It isn't always in what you know, sometimes it is in the delivery. Some folks come across as elitist or worse. So, even if the information is correct, no one wants to listen.
It's a talent to be able to deal with people. A talent some folks on here seem to be lacking.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
What knowledgeable dealer? What misinformation?
Most people know a little bit about a lot of things, a lot about a few things, I don't know even one person that knows everything about even one thing!