i am talking about coin dealers that have B&M and at your average coin show in your state...
no one is going to mail a few rounds to an authorized purchaser only to find their premium over spot disappears..
i suppose these people would buy larger lots though via mail.
also, is there any caveat on condition?
---
put it this way though, you need silver spot to go up a few dollars just to break even. then you need silver to go up a few dollars more to make a nice profit.
isn't that a rather pathetic play in silver? that is my point. what a terrible way to buy the metal.
put it this way though, you need silver spot to go up a few dollars just to break even. then you need silver to go up a few dollars more to make a nice profit.
isn't that a rather pathetic play in silver? that is my point. what a terrible way to buy the metal.
But wouldn't ASE's always command the same (or similar) premium over spot? So theoretically, you wouldn't be disadvantaged.
No. Premiums rise and fall with the market. Right now spot is low, but premiums are high. Six months from now either factor could be different.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>But wouldn't ASE's always command the same (or similar) premium over spot? So theoretically, you wouldn't be disadvantaged. >>
no...I agree with the Captain......at local B&Ms here...when silver was 16....common ASE were 17.50.........at 18.....common dates ASE were 19.00....when silver hit 20 ASE were 20.75.....to 21.00
on the way down (silver prices)...the spread widened.....as of Friday they (local B&M) was $4.50 over spot.
<< <i>ASE's may not be the best way to invest in silver bullion... But they sure are PURDY
An authorized dealer is a network of dealers who buy an unreal amount of bullion from the mint.
The mint charges 1.50 over spot.. The A.dealer then charges 1.50 over spot to the local B@M
The local B@M charges 1.50 to 2.50 more over spot to cover overhead..
Presto you now have.... 4.50 to 5.50 over spot at the local level... >>
I guess you can call an Authorized Purchaser ( less than 10 world wide ) a Mint bullion distributor, who is sanctioned by the Mint. The "Purchaser" has a network of large retail customers who they sell to, who in turn sell it to the BM stores.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>But wouldn't ASE's always command the same (or similar) premium over spot? So theoretically, you wouldn't be disadvantaged. >>
no...I agree with the Captain......at local B&Ms here...when silver was 16....common ASE were 17.50.........at 18.....common dates ASE were 19.00....when silver hit 20 ASE were 20.75.....to 21.00
on the way down (silver prices)...the spread widened.....as of Friday they (local B&M) was $4.50 over spot.
RAH >>
I assume you are talking about common dates, back when they were plentiful.
Current year coins have always had a higher premium. We buy current year coins in 500-coin monster boxes and used to pay about $1.45 per coin over spot, and then had to charge a markup over that to make any money. We would buy in common dates over the counter at spot, and sell them by the roll at about a dollar per coin over spot.
Right now we can buy a limited supply of 2008's at $2.40 per coin over spot. Very few people are selling us common dates.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Reasonable deal, IMHO. Hit all the B&M's this morning, all want $18 -$21 for 08 ASE's.
No deal on a roll either, wanted $400 at one location, $390 at another.
$334 with the shipping, for a roll from APMEX, is the best deal I can find.
Scott >>
Gainsville coins is showing $15.55 per 2008 ASE if paid by bank wire ($15.71 per by credit card). Shipping is $16 for one roll, $21 for two rolls, $3 for each additional roll. By bank wire that works out to $327 for one roll, by credit card $330 for one roll. Shipping gets a lot cheaper for multiple rolls. Gainsville does not list a spread over spot, and says that prices will change as spot price changes.
<< <i> assume you are talking about common dates, back when they were plentiful. >>
Yes....he always has on hand several tubes of mixed common dates.
but on Friday.....not only were the 2008 ASE were $4.50 over spot...but so were is remaining mixed common dates....
I don't begrudge him for getting a reasonable amount for them for his walk in public that does not keep up on current prices.
Personally...I do not buy ASE as a PM bullion play...I rather have .999 bars....or 90% silver coins.....but when the bars became hard to locate the last few weeks I started to pay attention to prices for singles and rolls of ASE...just for my own education...and since others were reporting what they found, I did the same.
<< <i>Reasonable deal, IMHO. Hit all the B&M's this morning, all want $18 -$21 for 08 ASE's.
No deal on a roll either, wanted $400 at one location, $390 at another.
$334 with the shipping, for a roll from APMEX, is the best deal I can find.
Scott >>
Gainsville coins is showing $15.55 per 2008 ASE if paid by bank wire ($15.71 per by credit card). Shipping is $16 for one roll, $21 for two rolls, $3 for each additional roll. By bank wire that works out to $327 for one roll, by credit card $330 for one roll. Shipping gets a lot cheaper for multiple rolls. Gainsville does not list a spread over spot, and says that prices will change as spot price changes.
In the event anyone wants to become an Authorized Purchaser for the Mint ... here are some of the requirements.
To become a United States Mint Authorized Purchaser, your firm must meet the following financial and professional criteria, which must be attested to by an internationally accepted accounting firm.
Be an experienced and established market-maker in gold/platinum and/or silver bullion coins. Provide a liquid two-way market for the coins. Be audited annually by an internationally-accepted accounted firm. Have an established broad base of retail customer base in which to distribute the coins. Have a tangible net worth of $50 million for Gold and Platinum Eagles, and $5 million for Silver Eagles. This requirement may be met using letter of credit. Have sold over 100,000 ounces of gold bullion coins over any twelve-month period since 1990. (This criterion is for becoming a United States Mint Authorized Purchaser of gold bullion.)
For the Silver Eagle, we charge the United States Mint's Authorized Purchasers the price of silver plus $1.25 per coin premium. Minimum ordering requirement is 25,000 coins. For the Gold Eagles, we charge 3%, 5%, 7% and 9% premiums for the one, one-half, one-quarter and one-tenth ounce coins respectively. Minimum ordering requirements are 1000 ounces. For the Platinum Eagles, we charge 4%, 6%, 10% and 15% premiums for the one, one-half, one-quarter and one-tenth ounces coins respectively. Minimum ordering requirements are 1000 ounces.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i> assume you are talking about common dates, back when they were plentiful. >>
Yes....he always has on hand several tubes of mixed common dates.
but on Friday.....not only were the 2008 ASE were $4.50 over spot...but so were is remaining mixed common dates....
I don't begrudge him for getting a reasonable amount for them for his walk in public that does not keep up on current prices.
Personally...I do not buy ASE as a PM bullion play...I rather have .999 bars....or 90% silver coins.....but when the bars became hard to locate the last few weeks I started to pay attention to prices for singles and rolls of ASE...just for my own education...and since others were reporting what they found, I did the same.
RAH >>
FWIW, the dealer network I often refer to has a buy on common date BU silver eagle rolls at $2.50 per coin over spot. This despite the fact that we can buy 500-coin cases of 2008's at $2.40 over.
I suspect that some of the telehores are preparing some special deals, and are sucking up all of the loose silver eagles around. Supply remains tight, demand remains high, and this explains why your dealer isn't selling his common dates at a discount these days.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
This is a published list of US Mint Authorized Purchasers....However, I believe some are no longer in business.
The United States Mint currently sells American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins to 11 Authorized Purchasers worldwide. The Silver Eagle Authorized Purchasers in the United States are: A-Mark Precious Metals in Los Angeles, SCB/Mocatta Bullion in New York, Jack Hunt Coin Brokers in New York, Salomon Smith Barney in New York, Prudential Securities, Inc. (New York), The Gold Center (Illinois) and HSBC Bank in New York, with sales domestically and abroad.
The international Silver Eagle Authorized Purchasers are Commerzbank International (Luxembourg), Deutsche Bank A.G. (Germany), Union Bank of Switzerland (Zurich) and Hang Seng Bank (Hong Kong).
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Comments
No deal on a roll either, wanted $400 at one location, $390 at another.
$334 with the shipping, for a roll from APMEX, is the best deal I can find.
Scott
i would bet big money the premium dealers will pay over spot is
about nil in most cases.
of course they turn around and mark it up a few dollars and parade
them as a great way to buy silver.
<< <i> would bet big money the premium dealers will pay over spot is nill >>
You would have lost....Below is what the Authorized Purchasers are paying for the ASE, AGE & APE US MInt bullion products.
ASE ....... spot + $1.25 per coin
AGE ....... 1 oz coin.. spot + 3%
1/2........... spot + 5%
1/4........... spot +7&
1/10..........spot + 10%
APE.........1 oz .........spot + 4%
1/2 oz.......spot + 6%
1/4 oz ......spot +10%
1/10 oz ....spot +15%
This is only for US Mint Products ..... I'm sure private mint bullion carries less of a premium
i am talking about coin dealers that have B&M and at your average
coin show in your state...
no one is going to mail a few rounds to an authorized purchaser only
to find their premium over spot disappears..
i suppose these people would buy larger lots though via mail.
also, is there any caveat on condition?
---
put it this way though, you need silver spot to go up a few dollars
just to break even. then you need silver to go up a few dollars
more to make a nice profit.
isn't that a rather pathetic play in silver? that is my point.
what a terrible way to buy the metal.
An authorized dealer is a network of dealers who buy an unreal amount of bullion from the mint.
The mint charges 1.50 over spot.. The A.dealer then charges 1.50 over spot to the local B@M
The local B@M charges 1.50 to 2.50 more over spot to cover overhead..
Presto you now have.... 4.50 to 5.50 over spot at the local level...
just to break even. then you need silver to go up a few dollars
more to make a nice profit.
isn't that a rather pathetic play in silver? that is my point.
what a terrible way to buy the metal.
But wouldn't ASE's always command the same (or similar) premium over spot? So theoretically, you wouldn't be disadvantaged.
<< <i>But wouldn't ASE's always command the same (or similar) premium over spot? So theoretically, you wouldn't be disadvantaged. >>
no...I agree with the Captain......at local B&Ms here...when silver was 16....common ASE were 17.50.........at 18.....common dates ASE were 19.00....when silver hit 20 ASE were 20.75.....to 21.00
on the way down (silver prices)...the spread widened.....as of Friday they (local B&M) was $4.50 over spot.
RAH
<< <i>ASE's may not be the best way to invest in silver bullion... But they sure are PURDY
An authorized dealer is a network of dealers who buy an unreal amount of bullion from the mint.
The mint charges 1.50 over spot.. The A.dealer then charges 1.50 over spot to the local B@M
The local B@M charges 1.50 to 2.50 more over spot to cover overhead..
Presto you now have.... 4.50 to 5.50 over spot at the local level... >>
I guess you can call an Authorized Purchaser ( less than 10 world wide ) a Mint bullion distributor, who is sanctioned by the Mint. The "Purchaser" has a network of large retail customers who they sell to, who in turn sell it to the BM stores.
<< <i>
<< <i>But wouldn't ASE's always command the same (or similar) premium over spot? So theoretically, you wouldn't be disadvantaged. >>
no...I agree with the Captain......at local B&Ms here...when silver was 16....common ASE were 17.50.........at 18.....common dates ASE were 19.00....when silver hit 20 ASE were 20.75.....to 21.00
on the way down (silver prices)...the spread widened.....as of Friday they (local B&M) was $4.50 over spot.
RAH >>
I assume you are talking about common dates, back when they were plentiful.
Current year coins have always had a higher premium. We buy current year coins in 500-coin monster boxes and used to pay about $1.45 per coin over spot, and then had to charge a markup over that to make any money. We would buy in common dates over the counter at spot, and sell them by the roll at about a dollar per coin over spot.
Right now we can buy a limited supply of 2008's at $2.40 per coin over spot. Very few people are selling us common dates.
TD
<< <i>Reasonable deal, IMHO. Hit all the B&M's this morning, all want $18 -$21 for 08 ASE's.
No deal on a roll either, wanted $400 at one location, $390 at another.
$334 with the shipping, for a roll from APMEX, is the best deal I can find.
Scott >>
Gainsville coins is showing $15.55 per 2008 ASE if paid by bank wire ($15.71 per by credit card). Shipping is $16 for one roll, $21 for two rolls, $3 for each additional roll. By bank wire that works out to $327 for one roll, by credit card $330 for one roll. Shipping gets a lot cheaper for multiple rolls. Gainsville does not list a spread over spot, and says that prices will change as spot price changes.
Gainsville 2008 ASE page
If the link is dead, they might be out of stock again, try the home page (link).
<< <i> assume you are talking about common dates, back when they were plentiful. >>
Yes....he always has on hand several tubes of mixed common dates.
but on Friday.....not only were the 2008 ASE were $4.50 over spot...but so were is remaining mixed common dates....
I don't begrudge him for getting a reasonable amount for them for his walk in public that does not keep up on current prices.
Personally...I do not buy ASE as a PM bullion play...I rather have .999 bars....or 90% silver coins.....but when the bars became hard to locate the last few weeks I started to pay attention to prices for singles and rolls of ASE...just for my own education...and since others were reporting what they found, I did the same.
RAH
link
<< <i>here are ASE's for 15.50 and Maples for 15.00
link >>
Not bad ... $3.28 above spot for the ASE .. + shipping
<< <i>
<< <i>Reasonable deal, IMHO. Hit all the B&M's this morning, all want $18 -$21 for 08 ASE's.
No deal on a roll either, wanted $400 at one location, $390 at another.
$334 with the shipping, for a roll from APMEX, is the best deal I can find.
Scott >>
Gainsville coins is showing $15.55 per 2008 ASE if paid by bank wire ($15.71 per by credit card). Shipping is $16 for one roll, $21 for two rolls, $3 for each additional roll. By bank wire that works out to $327 for one roll, by credit card $330 for one roll. Shipping gets a lot cheaper for multiple rolls. Gainsville does not list a spread over spot, and says that prices will change as spot price changes.
Gainsville 2008 ASE page
If the link is dead, they might be out of stock again, try the home page (link). >>
Don't forget to add the cost of the wire transfer... My bank charges 19.00 per wire transfer..
75 Canadian Maple Leaf Silver Coin (1.00 oz.) 15.00 1125.00
Tax: 0.00
Handling: 5.95
Delivery: 12.45
Insurance: FREE
Total: 1143.40
that is about 15.25 each
To become a United States Mint Authorized Purchaser, your firm must meet the following financial and professional criteria, which must be attested to by an internationally accepted accounting firm.
Be an experienced and established market-maker in gold/platinum and/or silver bullion coins.
Provide a liquid two-way market for the coins.
Be audited annually by an internationally-accepted accounted firm.
Have an established broad base of retail customer base in which to distribute the coins.
Have a tangible net worth of $50 million for Gold and Platinum Eagles, and $5 million for Silver Eagles. This requirement may be met using letter of credit.
Have sold over 100,000 ounces of gold bullion coins over any twelve-month period since 1990. (This criterion is for becoming a United States Mint Authorized Purchaser of gold bullion.)
For the Silver Eagle, we charge the United States Mint's Authorized Purchasers the price of silver plus $1.25 per coin premium. Minimum ordering requirement is 25,000 coins.
For the Gold Eagles, we charge 3%, 5%, 7% and 9% premiums for the one, one-half, one-quarter and one-tenth ounce coins respectively. Minimum ordering requirements are 1000 ounces.
For the Platinum Eagles, we charge 4%, 6%, 10% and 15% premiums for the one, one-half, one-quarter and one-tenth ounces coins respectively. Minimum ordering requirements are 1000 ounces.
<< <i>
<< <i> assume you are talking about common dates, back when they were plentiful. >>
Yes....he always has on hand several tubes of mixed common dates.
but on Friday.....not only were the 2008 ASE were $4.50 over spot...but so were is remaining mixed common dates....
I don't begrudge him for getting a reasonable amount for them for his walk in public that does not keep up on current prices.
Personally...I do not buy ASE as a PM bullion play...I rather have .999 bars....or 90% silver coins.....but when the bars became hard to locate the last few weeks I started to pay attention to prices for singles and rolls of ASE...just for my own education...and since others were reporting what they found, I did the same.
RAH >>
FWIW, the dealer network I often refer to has a buy on common date BU silver eagle rolls at $2.50 per coin over spot. This despite the fact that we can buy 500-coin cases of 2008's at $2.40 over.
I suspect that some of the telehores are preparing some special deals, and are sucking up all of the loose silver eagles around. Supply remains tight, demand remains high, and this explains why your dealer isn't selling his common dates at a discount these days.
TD
The United States Mint currently sells American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins to 11 Authorized Purchasers worldwide. The Silver Eagle Authorized Purchasers in the United States are: A-Mark Precious Metals in Los Angeles, SCB/Mocatta Bullion in New York, Jack Hunt Coin Brokers in New York, Salomon Smith Barney in New York, Prudential Securities, Inc. (New York), The Gold Center (Illinois) and HSBC Bank in New York, with sales domestically and abroad.
The international Silver Eagle Authorized Purchasers are Commerzbank International (Luxembourg), Deutsche Bank A.G. (Germany), Union Bank of Switzerland (Zurich) and Hang Seng Bank (Hong Kong).