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75t rack pack...bust - grades in
ldferg
Posts: 6,739 ✭✭✭
pulled this from a gai rack pack. bottom card.
your thoughts on a grade?
your thoughts on a grade?
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
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Sweet Morsels Toffee and Chocolates
thank you. i'm hoping high potential. we will see.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
oops.. upside down...
psa 9!!
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I want to say 9 but it depends on what that dot is.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
i suggest buying more & ripping to cure the itch.
j
RIP GURU
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
That being said, and for no visible reason, it will probably get an 8.5
matt, top left under loupe may be the worst corner of the bunch. otherwise, the card looks great. i'll see what the sept special is and send it under that or get a bulk submission for the end of next week.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Shane
Bosox1976
<< <i>I would send that card in a least 3 times to see if you could get a 9, if you don't get it on the first try. Awesome card. >>
It is indeed an awesome card, but unless you are going to try to sell it, why bother getting it graded. It looks great just the way it is.
Anybody who resubmits cards multiple times to try to chase a grade is just playing right in to PSA's hands and wasting their own money. You don't think it's just coincidence that PSA seems to be grading just a little bit harsher now that they've gone to half point grading.
My guess is that with the slight softness of the upper left hand corner, you'd get an 8 first time around so as to encourage you to resubmit and waste more money in the hopes of getting bumped to an 8.5 or 9.
<< <i>i'll see what the sept special is and send it under that or get a bulk submission for the end of next week. >>
That card is more important than the service you're thinking of using.
For $8 you can send it in this month and have it in 10 business days, or for $14 you can have it done in 5 business days. Both are this months specials.
Numbers guy- we know how you feel about grading. Nowhere in the thread did he say he was definitely keeping the card. As an 8 it is a $50 card. As a 9 it is a $700 card. If this were your card (someone who doesn't value the slab) and you wanted to keep it, what would you do? If you were smart, you'd get it into a 9 slab and sell it, buy a really nice 8 for $80 or so, crack the 8 out and keep it raw for your collection, then pocket the $600 profit. Just because you're against the philosophy of grading cards doesn't mean you can't benefit from it.
<< <i>9 all the way.
Numbers guy- we know how you feel about grading. Nowhere in the thread did he say he was definitely keeping the card. As an 8 it is a $50 card. As a 9 it is a $700 card. If this were your card (someone who doesn't value the slab) and you wanted to keep it, what would you do? If you were smart, you'd get it into a 9 slab and sell it, buy a really nice 8 for $80 or so, crack the 8 out and keep it raw for your collection, then pocket the $600 profit. Just because you're against the philosophy of grading cards doesn't mean you can't benefit from it. >>
this makes too much sense. wisea$$.
YOFL
If the grader measures t/b centering from the apostrophe in '74, then you may be looking at a PSA 7 card. If the grader measures t/b from "Highlights," then I think you would get a PSA 9. Personally, I've seen t/b centering measured both ways on these highlight cards. Just something to think about and/or research before submitting.
Can't tell what's up with the upper left corner - a see a little white - so I'm gonna have to go with a solid 8 or 8.5.
Good luck if you sub it - perhaps it will slide to a 9?
mike
<< <i>
<< <i>I would send that card in a least 3 times to see if you could get a 9, if you don't get it on the first try. Awesome card. >>
It is indeed an awesome card, but unless you are going to try to sell it, why bother getting it graded. It looks great just the way it is.
Anybody who resubmits cards multiple times to try to chase a grade is just playing right in to PSA's hands and wasting their own money. You don't think it's just coincidence that PSA seems to be grading just a little bit harsher now that they've gone to half point grading.
My guess is that with the slight softness of the upper left hand corner, you'd get an 8 first time around so as to encourage you to resubmit and waste more money in the hopes of getting bumped to an 8.5 or 9. >>
numbers guy,
how do you feel about beets?
mike
My point wasn't that he shouldn't submit the card for grading, my point was that he shouldn't submit the card for grading multiple times in an effort to get a specific grade, in this case a PSA 9. If he just wants to get it in a slab, regardless of what grade he receives, then great. But if his goal is to get a PSA 9 no matter what, and to resubmit it as many times as necessary until he gets it, then he's on a fools errand.
Given the growing inconsistency of PSA's graders, I think that you are going to see the price spreads between grades decrease siginificantly, especially the spread between PSA 8's and PSA 9's, and especially among more recent cards where PSA 9's are not scarce.
This card is a pop 24 in PSA 9 with three PSA 10's, so it's not exactly scarce in high grade.
This is exactly why he SHOULD submit it multiple times to try and get it in a 9 slab. The pop on the card is irrelevant- it sells for $700 in PSA 9 regardless of how many there are. Here's a little math- if he thinks the card will make it into a 9 slab 1 out of 5 tries, then he's spending $30-$60 (depending on how it is subbed) to turn a $50 card into a $700. Clearly you've never played the crack and resubmit game with a card you think should be in a certain grade, because if you grade accurately then you can do very well selling cards. Whether or not you believe it is good for the hobby really isn't the issue. You're giving him advice that doesn't make financial sense.
And just to point out what I am saying is the truth, I agree with you in spirit. None of the cards in my collection are graded. Many were cracked out and put into screwdowns because I have no intention of selling them. But if I think the PSA 7 Frank Robinson RC that I bought had any chance of making it into an 8 slab, I'd get it graded 3 or 4 times until it gets there, sell it and buy another PSA 7 and then use the extra $400 to buy a PSA 7 Brooks Robinson RC. How does this not make sense to you?
So I'm giving PSA money- who cares? Ultimately my collection is improving without spending more money.
If you look at it purely from a financial perspective then you are correct.
But of course your line of reasoning is exactly what PSA is counting on. By your logic, since PSA 9's usually go for 5x-10x the price of PSA 8's, everyone should be cracking and resubmitting every single PSA 8 they own until they find a grader who will give it a 8.5 or 9.
Why else do you think PSA introduced half-point grading except to squeeze more money from people trying to get their cards bumped up so that they will sell for more money. I'm guessing that crack & resubmits now make up a fairly significant chunk of PSA's revenue, to the point that the company might very well be in financial difficulty without them.
I guess what I have a problem with is the fact that what used to be a hobby is now becoming more and more about making money, not enjoying the cards. To me, the extreme focus the many people have on grades and grading is taking a great deal of the fun out of the hobby. After all, a card has the exact same visual appeal regardless of what grade some TPG gives the card...having it graded does not change it's original condition.
To me, grading is (and should be) an inexact science...it's the fact that the market treats PSA's opinions (and that's exactly what the are) as being definitive determinations when it comes to pricing cards that drives me crazy....
<< <i>.....But of course your line of reasoning is exactly what PSA is counting on.......... >>
In Lee's scenario, he doesn't care if PSA's wallet gets fat, as long as his wallet and/or collection gets fat too.
<< <i>....what used to be a hobby is now becoming more and more about making money....... >>
Don't kid yourself, it has ALWAYS been about making money
<< <i>Don't kid yourself, it has ALWAYS been about making money >>
What a true statement. If you disagree, why would tobacco companies have inserted them into packs of cigs? To sell more cigs and make more money. Why did Topps start producing cards? To make money. Why do companies grade cards? To make money. Why do we resubmit cards we are going to sell anyway? To make more money.
agreed
j
RIP GURU
<< <i> Don't kid yourself, it has ALWAYS been about making money >>
While lsutigers1973 is right in that for card manufacturers it has always been about making money, for card collectors, I think that the focus on making money has come about much more recently. Not until Beckett started producing price guides in the mid-80's was pricing information even gathered or available as a reference tool, and not until Upper Deck came out with their first baseball card set in 1989 do I remember anyone buying packs specifically to find high value cards and re-sell them. As the 90's progressed, manufacturers started to include more and more scarce inserts and create low print-run sets, but is wasn't until Ebay came into existence in the late 90's that collectors began to have an easy way to sell cards. Up until then, pretty much the only option for collectors who wanted to sell cards was to either sell them to dealers at 20-30% of Beckett, take out ads in SCD, or become de-facto dealers themselves and set up at shows. Before Ebay, very few people other than full-time dealers bought cards with the specific intent of re-selling them for a profit.
So I would argue that the hobby really didn't become primarily about making money until about 10 years ago, and the obsession with minute differences in card condition didn't really take hold until PSA came into existence and started creating a market for ultra-high end cards (i.e. PSA 8's, 9's, and 10's).
If you look back through time, prices for PSA 7's and 8's (which according to PSA are NM-quality) are not that much higher than prices for NM cards were in the 80's and 90's when you account for inflation. It's the market that PSA has created for PSA 9's and 10's (and now PSA 8.5's) that has really changed things. Now super-high end cards sell for 10x-20x mere NM cards, a price spread that never existed before third-party grading came into being.
<< <i>I'm not reading all that. Go soak your fingers in Epsom salt. >>
Having been dyslexic my entire life - I'm with you Nick.
In general - the intent of tobacco companies to make money - along with gum companies is part of our system.
The hobby is a different thing - go back 50 yrs and the hobby did look entirely different - there just wasn't serious money to be made - not like today.
It's still a fun hobby - just different.
But, I still hate beets!
mike
EDIT: That's a PRETTY card by the way. It makes me want to crack a '75 Rack!
<< <i>jeff- A lot of us send in our crackout flips so PSA can adjust the pop report accordingly. >>
Do you send the flips in with the resubs? I would be afraid that would influence the person regrading the cards.
Does PSA actually adjust the pop report based on the cracked out flips? Or are you just giving them the option?
<< <i>No I just save them up and when I get 20 or so send them in with my next sub. >>
Oh, well that's cool then. I just like to see the "integrity" be kept up on the pop report. I hope there are more responsible crackers out there! (lol, I said crackers)
lsu,
i will post some more scans tonite or tomorrow night. about 1/2 to 1/3 of the pack are centered equally to the aaron.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
i had a fouts and swann from a bbce 75 rack come back EOT... cards went straight from rack to card saver to psa. 2x thru psa they came back with same results. i will try once more.
i would not be a happy camper if the aaron had the same outcome.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
the rivers has a print mark in the name.
the hegan has an odd top left corner, almost like the card was perforated.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
I suspect you will get the 9 the first shot, though. I used VCP to look up the images of the 9s that previously sold and yours is as nice as any of them at least by this scan.
I don't know why numbers guy even bothers to post on a PSA message board if he is so philosophically opposed to the concept of card grading. And also why someone who has no interest in card grading can rattle off pop reports. Why would anyone who doesn't care about card grading even care about a pop report on one hand but fail to understand the HUGE difference in value between a PSA 8 and a PSA 9, or the difference between a raw and graded card? If you sold that card raw, people would assume it's trimmed or otherwise tampered with because it's not in a holder.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.