I bought this from tt recently. It was listed as a 1997 and the PCGS # pulls up 1997. However, as you can see, it is a 2004 coin and the holder does not appear to be compromised. What will PCGS do?
<< <i>If you can't trust what's on the label, can't any case of overgrading be dismissed as "mechanical error?" >>
I sincerely understand your point. For instance if I bought an 1806 DBH that was slabbed AU55 but was a real dog, PCGS COULD theoretically say "well, we meant to mark that as an EF45". However, if I buy a PCGS slabbed modern Jefferson nickel that was somehow mislabeled as an 1879 Stella PR 67, should PCGS be "on the hook" for a $250,000 loss?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
PCGS now claims that anything more than a 2 point difference in grade is a mechanical error and no guarantee applies...
Frank, can you be so kind as to provde a link for this? It doesn't pass the smell test.
Alarmingly, the most expensive coins I see are the Draped Bust material, and imo, grading is all over the planet on this stuff. The scariest scenario, using the above, is that no grade guarantee applies if a Bust $ is graded AU 53 rather than AU 50, or AU 58 rather than AU 55. Bust $s in 58 often sell for more than 2X AU 53s or 50s.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
<< <i>If you can't trust what's on the label, can't any case of overgrading be dismissed as "mechanical error?" >>
They argued it could and so could MS/PF designations. We recently sent in a coin graded MS-60 to get a 'mechanical error' fixed and it was returned, without our permission or even being notified, as a PF58 and thus about half it's value. It was a pain in the butt to get done (and about a 7 month turnaround), but PCGS eventually did pay us the difference in price.
IDK if i'll ever send in another coin for fixing 'mechanical errors' though.
Want to buy an auction catalog for the William Hesslein Sale (December 2, 1926). Thanks to all those who have helped us obtain the others!!!
<< <i>If you can't trust what's on the label, can't any case of overgrading be dismissed as "mechanical error?" >>
Trusting what's on the label, instead of scrutinizing the encapsulated coin has brought grief to many, which is why we now have stickers. Now we'll have people trusting stickers.
Good deals with: goldman86 mkman123 Wingsrule wondercoin segoja Tccuga OKCC LindeDad and others.
<< <i>PCGS now claims that anything more than a 2 point difference in grade is a mechanical error and no guarantee applies...
Frank, can you be so kind as to provde a link for this? It doesn't pass the smell test.
Alarmingly, the most expensive coins I see are the Draped Bust material, and imo, grading is all over the planet on this stuff. The scariest scenario, using the above, is that no grade guarantee applies if a Bust $ is graded AU 53 rather than AU 50, or AU 58 rather than AU 55. Bust $s in 58 often sell for more than 2X AU 53s or 50s. >>
Not Frank but here you go..
"A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale."
Thank you Placid. Folks, reading your post, if you bought an AU 58 Bust $ from an internet image and it should actually be an AU 55, this would be considered a mechanical error and not covered by said grade guarantee. Likewise re an AU 53 from same series when it should actually be an AU 50.
When I am dealing with Unc. or PF coins which are MS 60 or better, I'm not concerned about the "more than two point issue," because anyone who can't spot these kind of problems shouldn't be buying coins in the first place. But in the above examples deaing with Bust $s, we are looking at imo a real problem re the grade guarantee, assuming Placid's comments in this regard are correct. We also can be talking about some serious money being put at risk.
Please, please, please look at the coin before you buy it. If this is not possible, do NOT buy anything without a no questions asked seven day return privilege.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Comments
as "mechanical error?"
<< <i>If you can't trust what's on the label, can't any case of overgrading be dismissed
as "mechanical error?" >>
I sincerely understand your point. For instance if I bought an 1806 DBH that was slabbed AU55 but was a real dog, PCGS COULD theoretically say "well, we meant to mark that as an EF45". However, if I buy a PCGS slabbed modern Jefferson nickel that was somehow mislabeled as an 1879 Stella PR 67, should PCGS be "on the hook" for a $250,000 loss?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Are they really saying that if they call an AU55 coin MS60, that they do not guarantee this?
<< <i>PCGS now claims that anything more than a 2 point difference in grade is a mechanical error and no guarantee applies...
Are they really saying that if they call an AU55 coin MS60, that they do not guarantee this? >>
Do you have proof for this one? Usually, you say a lot but can back up very little.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Frank, can you be so kind as to provde a link for this? It doesn't pass the smell test.
Alarmingly, the most expensive coins I see are the Draped Bust material, and imo, grading is all over the planet on this stuff. The scariest scenario, using the above, is that no grade guarantee applies if a Bust $ is graded AU 53 rather than AU 50, or AU 58 rather than AU 55. Bust $s in 58 often sell for more than 2X AU 53s or 50s.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
................get out da computer!
<< <i>If you can't trust what's on the label, can't any case of overgrading be dismissed
as "mechanical error?" >>
They argued it could and so could MS/PF designations. We recently sent in a coin graded MS-60 to get a 'mechanical error' fixed and it was returned, without our permission or even being notified, as a PF58 and thus about half it's value. It was a pain in the butt to get done (and about a 7 month turnaround), but PCGS eventually did pay us the difference in price.
IDK if i'll ever send in another coin for fixing 'mechanical errors' though.
<< <i>If you can't trust what's on the label, can't any case of overgrading be dismissed
as "mechanical error?" >>
Nope. A grade is a grade.
Check this out:
Returned and correctly labeled with the same grade and certification number.
Didn't cost a nickel.
Well, since the auction ended on July 20th, I don't think you'll get your money back but it would definitely be worth a try.
Edited to add: Stupid Keybroad!
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>If you can't trust what's on the label, can't any case of overgrading be dismissed as "mechanical error?" >>
Trusting what's on the label, instead of scrutinizing the encapsulated coin has brought grief to many, which is why we now have stickers. Now we'll have people trusting stickers.
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
<< <i>
<< <i>If you can't trust what's on the label, can't any case of overgrading be dismissed
as "mechanical error?" >>
Nope. A grade is a grade.
Check this out:
Returned and correctly labeled with the same grade and certification number.
Didn't cost a nickel.
Well, since the auction ended on July 20th, I don't think you'll get your money back but it would definitely be worth a try.
Edited to add: Stupid Keybroad! >>
Edited to add: It wasn;t the keyboard but me!
I don;t see why the PR70 grade would be lost on this mechanical although it is possible.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>PCGS now claims that anything more than a 2 point difference in grade is a mechanical error and no guarantee applies...
Frank, can you be so kind as to provde a link for this? It doesn't pass the smell test.
Alarmingly, the most expensive coins I see are the Draped Bust material, and imo, grading is all over the planet on this stuff. The scariest scenario, using the above, is that no grade guarantee applies if a Bust $ is graded AU 53 rather than AU 50, or AU 58 rather than AU 55. Bust $s in 58 often sell for more than 2X AU 53s or 50s. >>
Not Frank but here you go..
"A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale."
Link
When I am dealing with Unc. or PF coins which are MS 60 or better, I'm not concerned about the "more than two point issue," because anyone who can't spot these kind of problems shouldn't be buying coins in the first place. But in the above examples deaing with Bust $s, we are looking at imo a real problem re the grade guarantee, assuming Placid's comments in this regard are correct. We also can be talking about some serious money being put at risk.
Please, please, please look at the coin before you buy it. If this is not possible, do NOT buy anything without a no questions asked seven day return privilege.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."