Trying to Understand the Grade on this Modern Proof...

OneCent

Just got back from a nice long vacation at the beach with the family. I had this waiting for me in the pile of mail that accumulated over the past week.

Well lets just say that I was disappointed. Always the chance you take when you do not have the opportunity to inspect the coin in-hand as opposed to a picture on an auction site. This coin does not meet my expectations with respect to the grade that NGC assigned to it.

Feel like guessing the grade and the problem that I have with this coin?



All comments welcome.

lope208

I'm guessing those scratches on the obverse are on the coin and not the plastic?
I don't know Washies that well, but PF68?

savoyspecial

would your problem with the coin be the scratches? (cant tell if they are on the coin or the slab from the pic)

my next guess would be the rather deep dig on washington's neck

a third guess, and this is not my strength, would be to guess it has artificial frosting

greg

STONE

67 max if those marks are on the coin.

nicetoning42107

There's a lot of things that could be wrong with that coin just looking at the pictures. I'm going to say the hairlines are on the slab and not the coin. I'm seeing that mark on the neck also. I'm also seeing some spotting at the top of the obverse between the letters of "LIBERTY". Possible contact mark in the left obverse field near the rim. Other minor ticks and taps. . .

NGC has it at 69UCAM, don't they?

ProofRainbowRoosevelt

I would have to say Ucam. Given the knick on Washington's neck and the knicks at the left side of the neck, the nose and a few in the obverse field to the left of the nose, I would guess 66UC. (Also fully assuming the all the scratches are on the holder, not on the coin.) Very hard to tell from the pic, but there are so many problems just judging the pictures.

If all those knicks I pointed out, are on the coin, PR66UC is a liberal guess.

I get the rights and lefts mixed up when I'm drinking heavily

OneCent

The NGC slab is horribly scratched. The fields are clean and not nicked or scratched. The coin is undoubtedly UCam as the mirrors are deep and the frost is thick.

However, I have a serious problem with the staple gash on the neck. In my opinion, especially with a coin as modern as this one, it should not even have been graded - BB damaged!!! However, it was graded, and graded very generously.

Gemineye

<< <i>The NGC slab is horribly scratched. The fields are clean and not nicked or scratched. The coin is undoubtedly UCam as the mirrors are deep and the frost is thick.

However, I have a serious problem with the staple gash on the neck. In my opinion, especially with a coin as modern as this one, it should not even have been graded - BB damaged!!! However, it was graded, and graded very generously. >>


This is a Proof coin....I agree and it does look Cam..BUT...you say ...

<< <i>staple gash >>

...How can you tell..??
It could have been from the mint's die..and still receive a high grade..yes or no..??

MICHAELDIXON

PF68 CAM Appears the frosting isn't deep enough on the entire portrait and the right hand eagle's wing.

IrishMike

<< <i>The NGC slab is horribly scratched. The fields are clean and not nicked or scratched. The coin is undoubtedly UCam as the mirrors are deep and the frost is thick.

However, I have a serious problem with the staple gash on the neck. In my opinion, especially with a coin as modern as this one, it should not even have been graded - BB damaged!!! However, it was graded, and graded very generously. >>



That doesn't appear to me to be a staple scratch and I don't see any reason it would have been body bagged.

ricko

Looking at the picture, and that may be way different from 'in hand'... the mark on the neck looks almost like it was 'as made'... does not look like (in the picture) a staple scratch. I could be wrong ... Cheers, RickO

gecko109

The neck gouge looks like mint made (planchet flaw?). A staple scratch would not be so deep compared to how short it is. Take a regular quarter and just try to mimic that kind of mark with a staple. I suspect you will be at it for quite some time!

OneCent

Alright, the gash on the neck may not be a staple scratch. As made? Maybe, I guess. All I know is that my eye is automatically pulled to that spot when I look at the obverse.

NGC graded the coin 68Ucam. I do not question the UCam designation as I believe that the coin is as such. I do think that the 68 was perhaps generous considering the distracting mark on the neck. If I had seen the coin in-hand, I would not have purchased it. The seller's pic did not reveal the generous nick on the neck. I don't believe that this was intentionally done as I think that it was more of an attempt to show the deep cameo contrast than anything else.

Of course I could just return the coin and be done with it, but I am not going to. Just pisses me off that a coin graded 68Ucam would have such a distracting mark on it. This again drives home the point that technical grade is not the be-all and end-all but a part of the overall dynamic of a coin. Also, buying from photos, even clearly defined ones, still has risks. There is not substitute for viewing the coin in hand (I guess that I knew that already).

Enough bellyaching from me.

gecko109

<< <i>Alright, the gash on the neck may not be a staple scratch. As made? Maybe, I guess. All I know is that my eye is automatically pulled to that spot when I look at the obverse.

NGC graded the coin 68Ucam. I do not question the UCam designation as I believe that the coin is as such. I do think that the 68 was perhaps generous considering the distracting mark on the neck. If I had seen the coin in-hand, I would not have purchased it. The seller's pic did not reveal the generous nick on the neck. I don't believe that this was intentionally done as I think that it was more of an attempt to show the deep cameo contrast than anything else.

Of course I could just return the coin and be done with it, but I am not going to. Just pisses me off that a coin graded 68Ucam would have such a distracting mark on it. This again drives home the point that technical grade is not the be-all and end-all but a part of the overall dynamic of a coin. Also, buying from photos, even clearly defined ones, still has risks. There is not substitute for viewing the coin in hand (I guess that I knew that already).

Enough bellyaching from me. >>




I will concede that whether post mint damage, or "as made", that gash is definately an eye sore!

Frankcoins

The mark on the neck is a planchet flaw - as made.

Other than that, we feel post 1964 proof sets should be left in their original holders, with
this set marked "frosted quarter" with a $2 premium.

Gemineye

I believe in the long run you have a legitimate beef..Let me explain....
I ...won ..a coin in auction on the bay and after recieving the coin in hand I contacted the seller as to a similar mark on the device of a Kennedy half....
HOW DARE I QUESTION HIS selling AND PCGS and bla bla bla bla his rating etc.....!!!
You are not alone ...!!!!.........

nicetoning42107

They come worse than that. Sometimes they spot while they're in the holder (just ask Russ). I've seen 68s and 69s that would go 66 or 67 if cracked out and submitted again.

You accurately point out that the grade isn't the be-all end-all and you should look at it in hand first. This is especially true when buying these modern cameo proofs.

veryfine

I preface the following comment by saying, you own the coin and know best what flaw or "mark" is too distracting for you taste.

However, your image is scaled up to an enormous size. There are some beautiful coins in my collection that make my jaw drop when I zoom in on them. Not that I include you in this category, but there are so many members in this forum who look at gigantic coin photos, and like vultures, start picking them apart.

You have a right to dislike anything about your coin. After all, it's yours and you have to be happy with it. But, sometimes a collector posts a huge scaled up image and then describes the imperfections. The viewer, in turn, takes the bait and says, "Oh yeah, those are some rotten distracting marks."

MadMarty

I have proofs that have been struck thru thread and got a 69UCAM at NGC and a 69DCAM at PCGS. In theory a struck thru should not affect the grade. Remember this coin, it's a 69UCAM!