After over 4200 FB's, 1st Negative from johnlj4
Mar327
Posts: 2,074
We recently sold a 1935 Mercury Dime, PCGS MS67FB. Admittedly not the best pictures, but due to a new girl in the office **who is learning to photograph coins. I can't and won't defend the picture because I didn't take them. ** There was no deception intended with the pictures, that's just how she shoots them. I work for this dealer but live 4 hours away - she had to pick up the slack when I injured my hand 2 1/2 months ago.
Link
Anyway, when he received this coin, instead of contacting us for a refund, he filed a PayPal dispute, without so much as an email or phone call. Note he has 116 feedbacks, but the last one was just left by me this morning and it's not a HAPPY positive. We wrote to PayPal that he could have a partial refund, minus shipping charges, as stated in our auction - you can guess how that turned out, he's getting a FULL REFUND, (tyvm PayPal - you stink). It's not the amount, it's the principal... why is the bidder ALWAYS right?
This was graded by PCGS as MS67FB, and he wrote a litany of problems with it - perhaps they'd like to hire a real expert grader because he's better at it than their present graders? People, if you're buying a $300+ coin and the picture is lousy, and PCGS's opinion isn't enough for you, just ask questions and most sellers will tell you what they see on it. With his sorrowful story to PayPal, he makes it sound like an EF coin.
Sorry for the vent, but check him out at
Toolhaus.org
and consider blocking him. Who needs it?
I'm an upbeat and cheerful person, but waking up to see this was like dropping my toast butter-side down on the floor.
Go ahead, flame away if you must, this is just another eBay complaint.
Mar
Edited to correct a wrong word, oops.
**Edited again because my intent wasn't to throw our new lister under the bus for her photo skills. There's a learning curve and I still feel if the photos aren't good enough, a bidder should ask questions, or have more emailed to them when in doubt.
3rd edit to add buyer's name to thread title for search purposes
Link
Anyway, when he received this coin, instead of contacting us for a refund, he filed a PayPal dispute, without so much as an email or phone call. Note he has 116 feedbacks, but the last one was just left by me this morning and it's not a HAPPY positive. We wrote to PayPal that he could have a partial refund, minus shipping charges, as stated in our auction - you can guess how that turned out, he's getting a FULL REFUND, (tyvm PayPal - you stink). It's not the amount, it's the principal... why is the bidder ALWAYS right?
This was graded by PCGS as MS67FB, and he wrote a litany of problems with it - perhaps they'd like to hire a real expert grader because he's better at it than their present graders? People, if you're buying a $300+ coin and the picture is lousy, and PCGS's opinion isn't enough for you, just ask questions and most sellers will tell you what they see on it. With his sorrowful story to PayPal, he makes it sound like an EF coin.
Sorry for the vent, but check him out at
Toolhaus.org
and consider blocking him. Who needs it?
I'm an upbeat and cheerful person, but waking up to see this was like dropping my toast butter-side down on the floor.
Go ahead, flame away if you must, this is just another eBay complaint.
Mar
Edited to correct a wrong word, oops.
**Edited again because my intent wasn't to throw our new lister under the bus for her photo skills. There's a learning curve and I still feel if the photos aren't good enough, a bidder should ask questions, or have more emailed to them when in doubt.
3rd edit to add buyer's name to thread title for search purposes
Have bought and sold on BST, many references available when asked.
0
Comments
Toast?? I just scrambled three eggs and have hot coffee.
We're only hearing your side of this in all honestly. Don't get me wrong, your feedback speaks for itself, but there's usually 2 sides to every story.
The feedback you left is POSITIVE ! Kudos.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I opened your link, saw that you had a phone number listed in your store which impressed me.
Then I saw you had a 2003 P First Flight Common at a good price so I just bought it.
Thanks.
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
<< <i>I don't think you did anything wrong, seems the buyer just isn't the 'ideal eBayer' we hope we'll be dealing with everytime. Don't sweat it just move on.......
We're only hearing your side of this in all honestly. Don't get me wrong, your feedback speaks for itself, but there's usually 2 sides to every story. >>
We're not going to sweat it, but another example of eBay's new FB policy not being allowed to work. As we already knew, buyers now have the sellers by the.... what was the word Jesse Jackson used?? This is just a battle wound sellers can be expecting in the eBay war zone.
Will glady send HIS side of the story (his PayPal dispute) to anyone by PM.
And although this isn't "my" business, I'm the one who started his eBay business in 2002 and have always been proud of our reputation. I had almost 2,000 of my own good feedbacks by then.
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
bob
How is your hand doing?
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Congrats on all the GOOD feedback. I've added you to my favorite sellers.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
My Registry Sets
Blocked!!
Sorry you had to suffer for our heads-up.
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
Blocked simply because I do not need the headaches as there are plenty of buyers out there that are not "afraid" nor adverse to using the email system should some type of disagreement occur.
IMO, a totally undeserved neg.
Hopefully, you will get your coin back Marlene.
The name is LEE!
BLOCKED
WTB: Barber Quarters XF
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Free Trial
johnlj4 you are Blocked
<< <i>We're only hearing your side of this in all honestly. Don't get me wrong, your feedback speaks for itself, but there's usually 2 sides to every story. >>
True enough, but in situations like this it pays to look at the histories of both parties, and 90% of the time you can tell when one side is being a complete tool.
I've also blocked this fella and then got to thinking, I have so many folks on my blocked bidders list and I have no idea why they were blocked that I am going to start a new "favorites" folder which will have links to these forums and the threads relating to the blocked bidders.
If one of these fellows wanders by and wonders why they are blocked, I want to review the reason.
The name is LEE!
it is inevitable to get a neg for no reason
sorry
<< <i>I've seen the complaint and IMO, this is one petty individual and to NEG Marlene before seeking resolution is simply someone I would rather not deal with! Feedback changes or not!
I've also blocked this fella and then got to thinking, I have so many folks on my blocked bidders list and I have no idea why they were blocked that I am going to start a new "favorites" folder which will have links to these forums and the threads relating to the blocked bidders.
If one of these fellows wanders by and wonders why they are blocked, I want to review the reason. >>
Thank you Lee. Just to clarify, I only work for this business - he's been a friend and mentor, has taught me so much about coins in the last 6-7 years and has helped me build my collection (with his wholesale prices
I like your idea of keeping those records. I've been blocking a lot of goofballs I've seen these stories about, but later have no idea why. One wrote recently and asked why he was blocked, I said I had no idea but unblocked him. After a purchase and an email he sent later, it started coming back to me, but he's been okay so far.
We will all eventually have an undeserved neg or two. Just remember the really bad sellers are getting them now by the dozens. --Jerry
I saw no reason to continue blocking them since I have no idea why they were blocked other than somebody else had blocked them.
I also ran across one where the seller wanted a bidder blocked and ended up getting himself blocked!
Oy!
The name is LEE!
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Since the seller has a clear return/refund policy, a rational buyer would
simply avail himself of the same. The instant "buyer" is a notorious numpty
and should have been NARUd long ago.
The photos were about adequate. An experienced buyer could easily
manipulate the photos to make them larger and more "clear." Or, such
a buyer could request more photos; a routine subject of ASQ messages.
The ONLY thing the seller did "wrong" here was to throw her employee/
photographer/lister under the bus to explain/excuse the wrongfully-alleged
"mistake."
There was no "mistake." The "buyer" got EXACTLY what was promised:
"1935 Mercury Dime, PCGS MS67FB."
.....................
Sellers need to understand that, under the PayPal scheme, "SNAD" has a
clearly-defined and precise meaning. When properly drafted, a seller's
good-faith defense to an unjustified-SNAD claim will almost always prevail.
Additionally, an adverse SNAD-decision can be appealed and reversed.
The key to a winning defense is to make a clear case that the claim on
its face CANNOT POSSIBLY meet the burden explicit in PayPal's definition
of "SNAD." The easiest items to prevail on are TPGd items; for reasons
that should be obvious.
"SNAD" does NOT recognize that "all MS67FB" items are NOT created
equal. SNAD assumes such equality. Decisions in SNAD-claims are almost
NEVER decided on pictures. 99%+ of any successful SNAD-defense is based
on words, NOT pictures. Casting the argument as "slight vs. significant" is
the most important element for a seller to focus on.
Edited To Add: In a SNAD-claim involving a TPGd-item, the seller relies
on the definitions of the relevant words, AND "explains" the impossibility
of a correctly-described TPGd-item being "SNAD."
Obviously, a responsible seller with a refund-policy should NEVER be faced
with a SNAD-claim. But, until EBAY dumps the crooked/stupid buyers, sellers
need to learn how to defend themselves.
..........
<< <i>but the last one was just left by me this morning and it's not a HAPPY positive. >>
Not a smart move. eBay will replace the comment with "removed by eBay", AND hit your account with a violation.
Thanks for the heads up. This turd is now blocked.
Russ, NCNE
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>Not a smart move. eBay will replace the comment with "removed by eBay", AND hit your account with a violation. >>
So let me get this straight -- a buyer can say stuff like "Seller's Using Light & Angle Photos 2 Hide FLAWS—email john11cv@yahoo.com 4more" and encourage people to e-mail them for more sliming of this seller, and anything a seller does to use the ONLY defense they have in feedback any more is a foul?
No wonder eBay just laid an egg with Wall Street. What a ridiculously one-sided policy.
<< <i>
<< <i>Not a smart move. eBay will replace the comment with "removed by eBay", AND hit your account with a violation. >>
So let me get this straight -- a buyer can say stuff like "Seller's Using Light & Angle Photos 2 Hide FLAWS—email john11cv@yahoo.com 4more" and encourage people to e-mail them for more sliming of this seller, and anything a seller does to use the ONLY defense they have in feedback any more is a foul?
No wonder eBay just laid an egg with Wall Street. What a ridiculously one-sided policy. >>
The buyer can sate, "Seller's Using Light & Angle Photos 2 Hide FLAWS" but can not state "email john11cv@yahoo.com 4more" according to eBay's feedback rules.
<< <i>
The buyer can sate, "Seller's Using Light & Angle Photos 2 Hide FLAWS" but can not state "email john11cv@yahoo.com 4more" according to eBay's feedback rules. >>
Do you have a link to show us that?
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Yes, but only because of a common T&S interpretation of the "personal information" clause.
And, a removal still has to be requested and is not automatic.
Bad buyers have great latitude in how far they can go in their efforts to DESTROY a seller's
business.
As was expected, good buyers have been fleeing EBAY for the last two-years. EBAY is desperate
to bring them back. Sadly, nothing they are currently doing is having the desired effect.
In almost 10-years, I have never seen the current level of "seller dissatisfaction" with EBAY.
<< <i>
<< <i>
The buyer can sate, "Seller's Using Light & Angle Photos 2 Hide FLAWS" but can not state "email john11cv@yahoo.com 4more" according to eBay's feedback rules. >>
Do you have a link to show us that? >>
Feedback comments containing any of the following are not permitted:
* Links or scripts.
* References to eBay or PayPal investigations
* Negative statements that conflict with a positive rating
* Personally identifying information about another member, including real name, address, phone number, or e-mail address
* Political, religious or social commentary rather than a genuine comment about the transaction
* The comment, reply or follow-up references a completely separate transaction or unrelated experience
* Profane, vulgar, obscene, or racist language or adult material
* Inflammatory language, such as "fraud, liar, cheater, scam artist, con man" etc., while strongly discouraged, will not be removed.
The three I bolded apply to this thread. The first being the violation by the OP that Russ already pointed out. The second is what I was referring to though it looks like I was wrong, the buyer can leave his email address but can not list the seller's information and the third somewhat "proves" that the first part of the buyer's feedback is fine. So, according to eBay's rules, they buyer did nothing wrong feedback wise and the seller did.
Crummy system, IMO.
<< <i>So let me get this straight -- a buyer can say stuff like "Seller's Using Light & Angle Photos 2 Hide FLAWS—email john11cv@yahoo.com 4more" and encourage people to e-mail them for more sliming of this seller, and anything a seller does to use the ONLY defense they have in feedback any more is a foul? >>
The seller is perfectly free to respond underneath the feedback comment left by the buyer. A calm rational response there is far more effective than attempting a negative positive. In fact, it has always been far more effective then negging the buyer.
Russ, NCNE
Mar327
I had my first and only less then positive about 6 months ago..a neutral, which really pissed me off, but since it did not count I just forgot about it.....until ebay changed the feedback rules recently, they made the neutral retroactive and now they count........so I'm a 99.9 ....but guess what, life is good, so who really gives a ^%$#
Sorry for your trouble with that nitwit, life is not fair, and ebay certainly is not fair....have a cold one and a great weekend.
<< <i>until ebay changed the feedback rules recently, they made the neutral retroactive and now they count........so I'm a 99.9 ... >>
You'll be back at 100% by next month.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>The seller is perfectly free to respond underneath the feedback comment left by the buyer. A calm rational response there is far more effective than attempting a negative positive. In fact, it has always been far more effective then negging the buyer. >>
While I completely agree with this, it still shows how drastically the cards are stacked against the seller when it comes to feedback.
The only good thing that's come from the feedback changes is that the slimy extortionist sellers who don't deliver and then retaliated to force mutual withdrawal were put out of business. I guess that's a pretty significant thing, but it sucks that this is the only way they saw fit to do it. I guess we have to accept a "new paradigm" where even the best sellers get slimed once in a while, with the assumption that the scumbag sellers get slimed a lot more.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum