PO'ed and scratching my head. NGC Star designation review results.
SkyMan
Posts: 9,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
I recently sent six coins in to NGC for a star designation review. I just got them back today. Exactly 1 came back starred. Needless to say this pissed me off. (Particularly since the grouping of coins that I sent in came back in what appears to be an endlot of their plastic holders, e.g. quite unattractive marked white plastic for the center plastic piece).
I'm sorry, but I think I have a pretty good idea of what a superior looking coin is for the sort of material I sent in... three of the coins I sent in were Franklins. I certainly didn't expect all 6 of the coins to upgrade, but I figured 3ish would get the nod (although God alone knows which 3).
Given some of the absolute garbage that is starred I am fairly stunned that only 1 of these coins came back starred. Let's just say I won't be sending NGC any more coins for some time. You be the judge.
Here's the one coin that starred;
Here are the other five coins that did not star;
(For those of you that don't know the Franklin series this is probably one of the top twenty five 1954-D's in existence for looks).
This 1949-D is most likely in the top 10 in existence for looks. I've owned it for ~ 20 years, and have yet to see a better one. To add insult to injury, and since I was already paying for a designation review, I asked them to FBL the coin. It neither starred nor FBL. You make the call.
Let's just say, NGC has saved themselves the problem of making any more money off of me for a while.
I'm sorry, but I think I have a pretty good idea of what a superior looking coin is for the sort of material I sent in... three of the coins I sent in were Franklins. I certainly didn't expect all 6 of the coins to upgrade, but I figured 3ish would get the nod (although God alone knows which 3).
Given some of the absolute garbage that is starred I am fairly stunned that only 1 of these coins came back starred. Let's just say I won't be sending NGC any more coins for some time. You be the judge.
Here's the one coin that starred;
Here are the other five coins that did not star;
(For those of you that don't know the Franklin series this is probably one of the top twenty five 1954-D's in existence for looks).
This 1949-D is most likely in the top 10 in existence for looks. I've owned it for ~ 20 years, and have yet to see a better one. To add insult to injury, and since I was already paying for a designation review, I asked them to FBL the coin. It neither starred nor FBL. You make the call.
Let's just say, NGC has saved themselves the problem of making any more money off of me for a while.
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Comments
all those coins are exceptional, especially the 49-D (my God, what gorgeous color!!...and FBL too!!)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Do they charge extra for this service?
John
<< <i>Please don't take this the wrong way, but I agree with NGC in this case. While they are all attractive, only the first coin sings to me. >>
i have to agree with this. when you ask for a star they will be
critical. when you look around at what already has a star... best
not to compare those coins with what you have ;-) you will
probably start to think some coins do not deserve a star.
The other five are beauties in my book and worth a star.
Mike
EBAY Items
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZrlamir
Of course they also star some exceptional coins but they're notoriously inconsistent.
Looks like your graders didn't get any the night before. Sorry.
Sweet coins!
merse
<< <i>All pretty coins - but the color is not the only consideration for a star. If the coin's technical merits are low end for the numeric grade - then no star regardless of color. What are the grades? >>
I agree, so disregard my previous post
<< <i>Please forgive my ignornace here, but what is a star supposed to indicate?
Do they charge extra for this service? >>
A star theoretically denotes a coin that is particularly appealing for the date/mm. A designation review (which includes starring, FBL, FT, FH etc.) costs $10 per coin.
I was mainly playing the NGC Registry game as a starred coin can often be worth significantly more points than a non-starred coin. In this case the one coin that did star was the one that added, by a significant margin, the LEAST amount of points. In any case the above coins are the same coins starred or not, and I am happy with each and every one of them, so in that sense whether NGC stars them or not is immaterial. It does make me wonder what they are looking for, and as I am perfectly happy to keep my other nice looking coins in their current holders I see no point in submitting them for a star anytime soon.
EDITED TO ADD: The grades are as follows,
'57-D Washie MS67, '57 Roosie MS67, '58-D Roosie MS67, '54-D Frankie MS65FBL, '58-D Frankie MS67FBL, '49-D Frankie MS65.
U.S. Type Set
Regardless....they are all very eye appealing specimens and ones I am sure you will not be parting with soon.
<< <i>They're pretty coins, even without the star on the label. >>
You don't need any stars...the coins sell themselves.
<< <i>Some of you guys need to get jobs at NGC. Hell, you can just grade by photos sent in. >>
The grade isn't the point in question. I've seen a portion of those in hand and the ones I've seen have greater eye appeal than most of my starred coins. Sy, you were robbed!!!
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
<< <i>
<< <i>Some of you guys need to get jobs at NGC. Hell, you can just grade by photos sent in. >>
The grade isn't the point in question. I've seen a portion of those in hand and the ones I've seen have greater eye appeal than most of my starred coins. Sy, you were robbed!!! >>
The star IS a part of the grade!!
<< <i>That blue Roosie is absolutely beautiful! >>
That's the one that caught most of my attention.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Some of you guys need to get jobs at NGC. Hell, you can just grade by photos sent in. >>
The grade isn't the point in question. I've seen a portion of those in hand and the ones I've seen have greater eye appeal than most of my starred coins. Sy, you were robbed!!! >>
The star IS a part of the grade!! >>
Not the technical grade. The star is for eye appeal. The coins I have seen in hand are very well represented by the images and do have superior eye appeal. More so than other starred coins I have seen in hand.
From NGC
<< <i>One important thing to remember is that NGC defines its star designated coins as those that have exceptional eye appeal. The coins themselves could fall anywhere within the grades to which they are assigned. >>
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Yours are already a star by looks alone so no need to point it out.
NGC Hiring Grader of World Coins
Applicants for the world coin grading position at NGC should have extensive abilities in the area of cataloging and authentication. The person in this position will be identifying and grading virtually every world coin that NGC receives. A strong knowledge of Oriental and Middle Eastern Numismatics would be helpful. Salary is commensurate with experience with benefits and opportunity for advancement. Must be willing to relocate to the Sarasota, Florida.
Fax resumes in confidence to 941.360.2555 Attn: Anja Frazer or e-mail at afrazer@ngccoin.com.
I've had issues all my life for not getting the star.
<< <i>Be thankful that it is only a few coins without a star. I never got a star stuck on my forehead in kindergarten, when all the other kids got them.
I've had issues all my life for not getting the star. >>
"IF" you had sent them last year before NGC changed its * points totals policy, then ALL of them would be in * holders....
How do you feel about that statement???
The 49D is very very nice, but I've seen two better PCGS 65 (rattler holders) color coins. I slabbed/owned one, Greattoning slabbed/owned the other.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
We've all seen numerous upgrades for prettiness. It's not unusual to see a very pretty MS63+ seated half given a MS64* grade. And that grade probably more accurately assesses market value rather than a MS63. I'm not saying I agree with it or not, it's just what they do.
Had you submitted each of those coins with a group of average white MS65's or MS66's, they would have had a better chance of going star* imo. When submitted in a group of great looking coins, they get to cherrypick which ones stand out among the standouts.
Coins are often judged by the company they keep. That's a very misunderstood part of the grading "conundrum." But if you talk to dealers who submit coins to make a living, this is a huge part of the game with many subtle aspects. I almost look at is as trying to lead the graders to the right answer...so don't make it any harder for them to agree with your conclusions.
roadrunner
...The star supposedly signifies extra/special eye-appeal and isn't supposed to have anything to do with the coin's technical merits...
so Sy may be right
<< <i>Think about this statement:
"IF" you had sent them last year before NGC changed its * points totals policy, then ALL of them would be in * holders....
How do you feel about that statement???
The 49D is very very nice, but I've seen two better PCGS 65 (rattler holders) color coins. I slabbed/owned one, Greattoning slabbed/owned the other. >>
As mentioned above, having/not having the star WITH REGARDS TO THE COIN doesn't bother me one bit. I know what I like and I'll buy/keep it. These coins certainly aren't going anywhere, and when I eventually decide to sell them, my bottom line will stay the same. The stars IMO are now part of the Registry game, but I do find it surprising on a purely gut level that more of these coins weren't recognized as being exceptional for the date/mm.
I'd LOVE to see those other '49-D's. I've only seen one other that IMO was as good as this one.
U.S. Type Set
Told you have been amonst the missing, what up with that. Counting all your gold???? :
Rainbow Stars
that I'm wrong and won't be backing that statement up with statistics. However, it is a personal thing
for each of us as to what should have a premium and what should not. I don't think any of your submissions
should have a star EXCEPT that nice 54D Frankling!
That's my personal take. Now the graders have a different eye, don't they?
bob
<< <i>All pretty coins - but the color is not the only consideration for a star. If the coin's technical merits are low end for the numeric grade - then no star regardless of color. What are the grades? >>
Right On... Right On... you hit the nail on the head!!
Also, I don't believe they sit and think about how many coins they've seen in any given date that they would have starred to make there decision.
They have about 60 to 120 seconds to agree on a star and all three graders must agree. (assuming they actually go through three graders on designation review as stated.)
Scott
Toned Coins for sale @ tonedcointrader.com
<< <i>Not the technical grade. The star is for eye appeal. >>
Check the population reports and registry sets and keep telling yourself that if you want to believe it.
<< <i>If you really think it deserves a star then pick up a Sharpie and draw a star on the slab. Who cares what NGC has to say about it. >>
You know what a star coin looks like, why would you need them to validate your opinion? Given the 2 opinions, I'll go with yours.
You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.
To illustrate my point, look at the strike on the 58-D Roosie. The torch is fairly mushy, so it should probably not have graded 67 in the first place.
merse
<< <i>If a coin is "solid for the grade" but does not receive a star, would a certain alternative sticker be accepted instead, for purpose of the Registry? Could the coin be then sent back to the TPG with said sticker and receive the star designation? Respectfully, John Curlis >>
Green footballs and stars do not mix.
Personally, I believe that the 1958-D Roosie and the 1958-D Frankie deserve a star just for overall kick$ss eye appeal. Those coins definitely "have it". I wouldn't let it get to you. All of the coins posted can stand on their own merits, star or no star.
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111