No returns on certified coins -- why?
rbf
Posts: 452 ✭✭
I have noticed many eBay sellers have an "all sales final" rule for certified coins, but I don't understand why. If anything, sellers should have no problem taking back certified coins. Unlike raw coins, certified coins are tamper-proof, so there is much less risk of fraud/switching. Also, certified coins have better liquidity, meaning they should be easier to re-sell in case of a return.
I thought the whole point was to buy the coin, not the holder. I think these sellers' "no return" policy is unreasonable, and basically it's saying it's OK to dump an overgraded certified coin on you, and there's nothing you can do about it. Am I wrong?
I thought the whole point was to buy the coin, not the holder. I think these sellers' "no return" policy is unreasonable, and basically it's saying it's OK to dump an overgraded certified coin on you, and there's nothing you can do about it. Am I wrong?
0
Comments
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
History of the US Constitution Coin Set
On the other hand, I understand why sellers say "no return" on bullion items, slabbed or not. I notice people want to load up on stuff from the Mint and then return it if things don't go their way, I wouldn't want to be an ebay seller having to deal with that.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
No need for a 14 day, but 3 days would be nice IMHO.
<< <i> Maybe they aren't running an approval service and they're tired of buyers coming down with buyer's remorse. >>
So, just because a disgruntled seller has a resentment against a certain type of buyer, that means ALL buyers (honest or otherwise) deserve to be penalized. I see.
<< <i>Maybe they aren't running an approval service and they're tired of buyers coming down with buyer's remorse. Just a guess. >>
If that happens too much to any one seller, then I suggest some people are either overhyping their coins or are taking crappy pictures that hide the fact that the coin is an overgraded dog.
I just don't think this will happen too frequently IF someone merely gives a good description of the coin and provides good pictures.
it pays to shop around for the best deals...
yes, you can do something, DONT buy it
if you like the coin, and want the coin, then what does it matter what the slab says ? if the seller does not offer a refund, that is his/her call. when ebay starts charging the fees to the buyer rather than the seller, the buyer will have more say in the listing.
<< <i>I have noticed many eBay sellers have an "all sales final" rule for certified coins, but I don't understand why. If anything, sellers should have no problem taking back certified coins. Unlike raw coins, certified coins are tamper-proof, so there is much less risk of fraud/switching. Also, certified coins have better liquidity, meaning they should be easier to re-sell in case of a return.
I thought the whole point was to buy the coin, not the holder. I think these sellers' "no return" policy is unreasonable, and basically it's saying it's OK to dump an overgraded certified coin on you, and there's nothing you can do about it. Am I wrong? >>
I feel the same way. All MS6X's are not created equal. No matter what the grade, I want a coin that has eye appeal.
TPGs will slab some ugly coins. As has been stated here many times, no matter how good the picture is, you really can't judge a coin until you have it in hand. No picture can really show what a coin looks like in hand. This is especially true of the relatively small (under 50k) pictures usually furnished on ebay.
I generally "Just say no" to sellers who do not offer a return privilege, or I limit my bids as though I was bidding on a coin one grade lower. I am always outbid, but that's fine.
I'm sure many other buyers feel the same, and sellers know this. They are making a conscious marketing decision to usually get a lower price, so they do not have to stand behind their coins.
As has been discussed here, there is one big seller of certified Morgans on ebay, who not only has "suspect" pictures (all of her photos look virtually like they are of the same coin) , but will not accept returns on certified coins. Even though this seller has a 99.9% positive rating, I have never bought a coin from her, and probably never will.
It had better have a good clear picture before I buy from someone with a "no return" policy.
BTW, a lot of great online shops offer full returns on certified coins.
<< <i>A "No return" policy is meaningless if you paid via PayPal. >>
Just like the guys telling you that their shipping responsibility ends at the post office.....while they may think it to be true, the powers that be will set it straight in a dispute.
Edited to add: In response to the OP's statement, it IS a bit unreasonable to ask for no returns, but it's their sale. Just move on to a more comfortable situation.
<< <i>Because they are cowards who hide behind the grade on the slab instead of standing behind their coins. >>
I agree.
<< <i>Maybe they aren't running an approval service and they're tired of buyers coming down with buyer's remorse. Just a guess. >>
I agree with this too.
So.....I guess I don't have an answer, haha.
<< <i>One reason I can see is that a buyer will buy a coin hoping for a possible upgrade. When the coin is just "average" for the grade, they will return it saying they don't like it. I have talked to one person who does this, and I can see sellers getting frustrating at these people for buying a lot of coins, and returning most of them because they won't upgrade. Sellers don't want to deal with all these returns, so just state no returns on certified coins. >>
That is a good point, actually. However, I still think a strict "no return" policy is not the answer. The best solution would be if the seller simply states "Satisfaction guaranteed... However, please DO NOT BID if your sole intent is to re-submit the coin for a possible upgrade... We reserve the right NOT to honor our return policy under such circumstances.". I think that would get the point across just fine, and weed out most, if not all, such "undesirable" buyers.
<< <i>One reason I can see is that a buyer will buy a coin hoping for a possible upgrade. When the coin is just "average" for the grade, they will return it saying they don't like it. I have talked to one person who does this, and I can see sellers getting frustrating at these people for buying a lot of coins, and returning most of them because they won't upgrade. Sellers don't want to deal with all these returns, so just state no returns on certified coins. >>
Sounds like a losing proposition considering the high cost of postage and insurance these days.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
All my auctions have a no questions return slabbed or not.
Photos invariably did not show the problems that existed.
Fortunately I wasn't out much, but these are coins I will dump at some point in the future -- with a return policy and a caveat that I think the grade on the label is overly generous.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Also, what is the problem with having a return policy?
Honestly, I had one return two years ago, no returns last year, and one request for a return this year but then the winning bidder contacted me a week later and chose to keep the small collection of coins.
As long as you’re honest, don’t bait & switch, and have large photos of what you’re selling, the bidder knows exactly what they’re buying… returns should be few and far between.
I don't have any problems with sellers not wanting to play the game. I only buy on ebay when they have excellent pictures and so far have not had a problem with a no return policy, but i usually also email and nicely ask for a verbal description.
World Collection
British Collection
German States Collection
<< <i>As long as you’re honest, don’t bait & switch, and have large photos of what you’re selling, the bidder knows exactly what they’re buying… returns should be few and far between. >>
Between eBay and BST, I've probably sold about 40-50 Big Four slabbed coins and offered a no questions asked 7-day return privilege on all of them.
How many time have I been asked to honor the return policy?
Zero.
K S
<< <i>what the he11 is so hard about this, if you want a return policy, buy from someone who offers it, & stop belly aching about how other people choose to do business >>
Now, where's the fun in that?
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If somebody can show me how to run a profitable approval-service on EBAY,
I will voluntarily offer refunds on TPGd items.
.........................
There is wide speculation that by next year, ALL items listed on EBAY will have
a mandatory return privilege.
<< <i>"Maybe they aren't running an approval service and they're tired of buyers coming down with buyer's remorse. Just a guess." >>
I think they're overreacting to one bad experience. I think many sellers think every transaction should go smoothly and if it doesn't the they want to change the rules to block everyone who causes them any trouble. Retail isn't all roses. You get returns if you offer good customer service. I get a very occasional return from a dissatisfied customer. Often I agree with them that the coin is at the bottom of the band or perhaps PCGS made a mistake on that one. Because most of my coins are coins I have duplictes of I just replace them. What's more, I pay shipping both ways for the replacement. I ship them the replacement with a SASE for return--I even trust them to have two of my coins in hand having only paid for one. So far I haven't had a single one of these customers take advantage of me or start treating me as an approval service.
So I don't change my auctions or block any bidders. I just do my job as a retailer and thank the customers for buying from me rather than someone else.
BTW, I'd much rather accept a slabbed coin in return than a raw coin.
--Jerry
<< <i>Because they are cowards who hide behind the grade on the slab instead of standing behind their coins. >>
I could not disagree more. If the coin is fully and accurately described and is graded by PCGS or NGC and as long as there are very good images of it that truly represent the coin as it looks in-hand, then I have no problem with the "All sales final" rule. This will weed out those who either change their mind because later they want something else instead, or just those who are "kicking tires". Now, if there is not a high quality image and fully disclosed description of the coin, then I agree and there absolutely should be a return option. JMHO.
Dave
i have unloaded some spotted stuff mentioned in the auction with no return policy and no reserve, so what...if someone was really pissed at what they had...i'd take it back w/o question?
like a garage sale 'yo how much for that Sacagawea with all the tail feathers?, oh $2.50 okay, ......sold.
yes i am tipping the brandy...it's Friday
The coin itself is irrelevant to the purchase of the number on the label. Obviously, this is true or Ebay would require pics that show the coin rather than cancelling auctions which show great pics of the coin but don't show pics of the slab.
<< <i>I have noticed many eBay sellers have an "all sales final" rule for certified coins, but I don't understand why. If anything, sellers should have no problem taking back certified coins. Unlike raw coins, certified coins are tamper-proof, so there is much less risk of fraud/switching. Also, certified coins have better liquidity, meaning they should be easier to re-sell in case of a return.
I thought the whole point was to buy the coin, not the holder. I think these sellers' "no return" policy is unreasonable, and basically it's saying it's OK to dump an overgraded certified coin on you, and there's nothing you can do about it. Am I wrong? >>
Refusal to honor a reasonable, industry standard return privilege = something to hide. Spend your money elsewhere.
WH
<< <i>Why should a refund be offered on certified coins? As long as it is graded what the seller said it was no one should have a complaint. >>
True, if they are buying the plastic before the coin.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why should a refund be offered on certified coins? As long as it is graded what the seller said it was no one should have a complaint. >>
True, if they are buying the plastic before the coin. >>
That's exactly my point. It is Ebay's policy--and one that receives almost universal agreement on this board--that as long as pics of both sides of the slab are shown the buyer is protected. Anything else--such as pics that show the actual coin--is totally unnecessary In fact the auction will be nuked if missing the slab pics.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Plastic is meaningless and there's no excuse for not accepting returns.
The bottom line is 95% of collectors have no idea what they are looking at, so the sellers get away with it (how do you think the full-page ad guys have survived so long?) The discriminating buyers will not put up with such nonsense.
Edited for spelling: I'm not good at that either
<< <i>Do the major auction houses such as Heritage allow the return of slabbed coins bought at auction? >>
In their internet only auctions, yes.
Russ, NCNE
You are free to pass or play but your ideas are not nessarily the same as mine. Bid accordingly.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
As there are many thousands of eBay coin sellers, it's highly unlikely that all of the "all sales final" sellers have the same reasons for their policies. If you want to know why a particular seller has such a policy, you'll need to ask him, not us.
That said, a seller is free to set his own terms of sale. If you don't like the terms, negotiate alternative terms or find another seller.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>That said, a seller is free to set his own terms of sale. If you don't like the terms, negotiate alternative terms or find another seller. >>
I agree. And "find another seller" is exactly what I do.
I wonder if some people realize how much they may be leaving on the table with a "no return" policy that chases bidders away. But hey, it's certainly their right...
Some coin sellers (they are not dealers IMO) prefer to not sell on approval. One should pay accordingly.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
why? because they won them cheaper then they bought mine at. is this fair? NO says paypal, i copied and pasted the emails and other auctions they won to show paypal and they sided with me. nothing wrong with the coins, buyers need to shop around.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Maybe they aren't running an approval service and they're tired of buyers coming down with buyer's remorse. Just a guess. >>