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What do you think of copper spots on gold coin?

saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Not modern bullion but 1795-1932 mintages?

Do not be like this...

image


Try to be "smart"....you know, like you were discussing it with educated people...stretch, it's not that hard! image
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Comments

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I generally have no problem with them. Sometimes, they add to the character or allure of the coin, especially when they can connect the coin to a major collection.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Don't particularly like them, but I'd rather have them in place on an original coin than messed with.
  • VeepVeep Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't mind them at all, but not everyone feels that way as I've found when selling.
    "Let me tell ya Bud, you can buy junk anytime!"
  • MPLunaticMPLunatic Posts: 617 ✭✭
    I actually like copper toning on gold coins, almost all coins have the same shiny gold look, I like my gold with a little color, something that makes the coin stand out, this is one of my favorite coins right now

    image
  • slipgateslipgate Posts: 2,301 ✭✭
    Spots are Dirty Rotten Scoundrels!
    My Registry Sets! PCGS Registry
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I actually like copper toning on gold coins >>

    Well, okay, me too to a degree -- but *toning* and *spotting* are, at least visually, two different things. Spotting is unsightly to me, whereas larger areas of toning may not be (and may even be attractive).
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 23,225 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would defer to your opinion.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • SpaceMonkeySpaceMonkey Posts: 3,311 ✭
    toning yes, spots no...


    but i happen to find this example very attractive... offered from the Costa Rica Connection




    image



    -sm
    image

    The Maddy Rae Collection
    CURRENT BST OFFERINGS
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't mind them if they are minor and they are not distracting. I've never seen a copper spot that helped the eye appeal of a coin.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I would defer to your opinion. >>



    OK....here's what I think...

    Copper spots have been present on gold coins as long as they have been made using the alloy as a means to harden the gold for modern mintage. IN US gold coins the mint uses an amalgam of 90% gold and 10% copper. It's there and there's no denying it. It's a natural ocurrence when visible on the surface and in this writer's opinion another mark of originality and accentuation of the beauty of gold coinage. It's the equivalent of knots on a redwood coffee table or a tiny bubbles in antique hand blown glass. Copper spots generally bloom in the early few years after minting and once removed it never returns and the coin has been forever altered. If a coin was known to have copper and shows up without it one would pause and have to wonder what else could have been done to the coin merely out of a sense of suspicion. Some dates are highly identified by copper like the 1908-S, 1921, and 1922-S Saints and to find one without copper is almost disappointing.

    Some of the greatest Saints in the world have copper.

    1921 MS66!
    1927-S MS67!
    1908-S MS67 (the FINEST of any 08-S)

    and many, many other notable top pop coins. Two of the three 1922-S MS66's have copper. The MS65 1927-D in FUN 2006 HAD copper...ooops!....not anymore. So there's some substantiation?? image
    image
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i><<I would defer to your opinion.>>

    <<OK....here's what I think...

    ....


    .... >>



    Next time time you give Jay the open mike like that, I am going to lobby to have your account suspended. image

    Actually, it was a very good summary, and I agree completely.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i><<I would defer to your opinion.>>

    <<OK....here's what I think...

    ....


    .... >>



    Next time time you give Jay the open mike like that, I am going to lobby to have your account suspended. image

    Actually, it was a very good summary, and I agree completely. >>



    That's because you are a smart, smart kid...just look here is RYK as a kid...

    image
    image
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    Saint, I know you SPECIFICALLY excluded modern gold bullion from your inquiry, but I have to chime in anyway. Im currently collecting gold pandas, and copper spots are a fact of the series. To be honest, they bother the hell out of me. I wish I could view them as you do, a knot in fine wood, or a bubble in hand blown glass. But the truth is, I view them more as a blemish, such as a pimple, or herpes on the coins I collect.
  • HighReliefHighRelief Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it brings character to the coin, although PCGS thinks different.

    image
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    On a serious note, Jay, I see more noticeable and more number of copper spots on Saints than any other US gold series, including $20 Libs. Is my observation fallacious? If not, is there an explanation for this? (cue open mike)
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't mind them if they are minor and they are not distracting. I've never seen a copper spot that helped the eye appeal of a coin. >>



    You see, this is the way the biz has educated people in the last 20 years! Is the knot in a beautiful redwood table distracting and a takeaway? I see it as character and just "the way it is" and the same goes for copper spots. And I'm NOT talkingabout copper toning. That's a layup...it's always a plus.

    These are coins....you like die breaks, rotated dies, all kinds of anomolies that frankly, I find less than attractive...but natural COLOR? It's great! And it is definately a sign of an original coin because copper will dip right off of most gold coins. If it's a good coin and it has copper, it's 98% likely that it's never been dipped.

    That's worth the applause alone.image
    image
  • jsfjsf Posts: 1,889
    here's what I learned about toned Saints:

    pathetic thread in this forum linky

    0 responses since April. tia
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think it brings character to the coin, although PCGS thinks different.

    >>



    This has been addressed with DHall. I think that he is thinking differently about it now. I spoke wiith him spcifically about that at the last 20th Century Gold Club meeting.

    And gecko...I deliberately excluded modern gold. Let's stay with the right series'! image

    BTW jsf...the coin that Mr. Erkel RYK posted in your mini-thread was bought from me. It's ex: Duckor/Brahin....a true treasure! image
    image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I suppose copper spots are an indication of authenticity to some degree, and depending on where these spots are, is critical in the value placed upon each specimen.

    on the flip side:
    I love laughing more than learning, so thanks for that photo of RYK.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I actually prefer them to gold spots on my copper
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I would defer to your opinion. >>



    OK....here's what I think...

    Copper spots have been present on gold coins as long as they have been made using the alloy as a means to harden the gold for modern mintage. IN US gold coins the mint uses an amalgam of 90% gold and 10% copper. It's there and there's no denying it. It's a natural ocurrence when visible on the surface and in this writer's opinion another mark of originality and accentuation of the beauty of gold coinage. It's the equivalent of knots on a redwood coffee table or a tiny bubbles in antique hand blown glass. Copper spots generally bloom in the early few years after minting and once removed it never returns and the coin has been forever altered. If a coin was known to have copper and shows up without it one would pause and have to wonder what else could have been done to the coin merely out of a sense of suspicion. Some dates are highly identified by copper like the 1908-S, 1921, and 1922-S Saints and to find one without copper is almost disappointing.

    Some of the greatest Saints in the world have copper.

    1921 MS66!
    1927-S MS66!
    1908-S MS67 (the FINEST of any 08-S)

    and many, many other notable top pop coins. All three 1922-S MS66's have copper. The MS65 1927-D in FUN 2006 HAD copper...ooops!....not anymore. So there's some substantiation?? image >>



    Since they were made BEFORE my time and there is really nothing I can do about, one either lives with them or passes on them or finds an example without them. Unlike modern bullion which is NOT INTENDED to circulate, there is NO EXCUSE for putting out coins like the ASEs which blemish with time.

    BTW there is ONE glaring error in Jay's post; anyone know what it is?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>BTW there is ONE glaring error in Jay's post; anyone know what it is? >>



    Yes, it is this sentence: The MS65 1927-D in FUN 2006 HAD copper...ooops!....not anymore.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • jsfjsf Posts: 1,889
    I like a bit of copper tone, myself. I look at my gold buffalo and spouse coins and they don't look nearly as cool as my old gold. Cool, yes, just not as cool.
  • Joe26Joe26 Posts: 204
    For common dates, it seems to be a negative when it comes to resale value. I personally find spots to be distracting. There isn't a "right" or "wrong" answer to the question.
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    1921 MS66...POP1..est value....$1.5 million

    image


    1927-S MS67...POP1..est value....$750K

    image
    image
  • jsfjsf Posts: 1,889
    I just got my Stack's catalogs the other day for the Husky and Bergstrom collections. Wow. I don't guess I'll ever get to see something like them, in person.

  • adamlaneusadamlaneus Posts: 6,969 ✭✭✭
    Copper spots on gold coins are Known By The State Of California to potentially be a cancer causing agent.

    Because of this danger to the public, the State realizes that these potentially dangerous items should be mitigated.

    I have been empowered by the State with a professional license that allows me to safely handle such dangerous objects known by the state of california to potentially contain chemicals which may, if intravenously injected over years of time, cause cancer.

    You don't want these unknown danger-spots around your children(*), as study after study has shown that they are highly contagious. I'm here to help.

    As the only hazmat contractor in the state with such a license, I can safely and quickly isolate the contamination to prevent its eventual spread to the rest of your collection and children(*).

    Our on site storage and disposal facilities are state of the art and have been designated with the green ISO-9477388.333 award for low energy consumption and zero emissions.

    My fees are quite reasonable and competitive in the industry. You will be given an authentic "I Saved The Environment" sticker upon receipt of your contaminated, spotted coins.

    * Copper spots have not been shown to affect the resale value of children.



    Excuse me. May I go to the bathroom? .. ... .... ..... Thank you.

    Sorry, I couldn't resist. It's the first picture that got me.



    Spots on 22k gold? I seek them out.
    Except for the copper spot I saw on a 24k buffalo. I hated that one and sent it back. It was a different sort of spot.


  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    image
    image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,572 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>BTW there is ONE glaring error in Jay's post; anyone know what it is? >>



    Yes, it is this sentence: The MS65 1927-D in FUN 2006 HAD copper...ooops!....not anymore. >>


    Care to elaborate? Students want to learn.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    What is the sound of one hand clapping, Grasshopper? image
    image
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>BTW there is ONE glaring error in Jay's post; anyone know what it is? >>



    Yes, it is this sentence: The MS65 1927-D in FUN 2006 HAD copper...ooops!....not anymore. >>


    Care to elaborate? Students want to learn. >>



    Does tampered with / doctored etc... make better sense? i.e. no more spot.
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think it brings character to the coin, although PCGS thinks different.

    image >>



    Is that a legit PCGS insert image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,289 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They can be attractive, innocuous, or detracting, irrespective of originality.
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • charleycharley Posts: 2,071
    Forgive me, I know NOTHING about gold coinage or coloring and don't own any gold coins. I, of course, defer to saintguru in these matters. It is logical to me that a coin exhibiting coppery color traits is a sign of original surface. So, my question- can a "coppering effect" be added to such a coin in a manner that it would be very difficult to detect? Has this been attempted/done? Respectfully, John Curlis
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Forgive me, I know NOTHING about gold coinage or coloring and don't own any gold coins. I, of course, defer to saintguru in these matters. It is logical to me that a coin exhibiting coppery color traits is a sign of original surface. So, my question- can a "coppering effect" be added to such a coin in a manner that it would be very difficult to detect? Has this been attempted/done? Respectfully, John Curlis >>



    No. Anyway, there has been a "campaign" over the last two decades or so that copper is a "take-away" to cover up for dipping coins, IMO. Adding copper? Maybe after I'm done with MY campaign you'll see that.
    image
    image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    better sense, or image
    ... more cents ?

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Copper spots on gold coins are now a thing of the past, just like Liver spots the Doc's at NCS can conserve them right off! image

    Strip, strip, zap, zap, scrape, scrape, etc. image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • Tvac897Tvac897 Posts: 1,478
    No issues here
    -Rome is Burning

    image
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,235 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For the most part I like them, they are fun and add a bit to the coin IMO. I've seen some I couldn't take though. One was a St. Double with a nice brown spot right smack dab in the middle of Liberty's crotch area...was weird and distracting.

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>For the most part I like them, they are fun and add a bit to the coin IMO. I've seen some I couldn't take though. One was a St. Double with a nice brown spot right smack dab in the middle of Liberty's crotch area...was weird and distracting. >>



    An application of penicillin would have cleared that up! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Although I prefer my gold without spots, knowing what they are, they do not bother me. As for copper 'toning' of gold, well, no different than any other toning... preferrably not there.... Gold is beautiful in and of itself.... Cheers, RickO
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>BTW there is ONE glaring error in Jay's post; anyone know what it is? >>



    Yes, it is this sentence: The MS65 1927-D in FUN 2006 HAD copper...ooops!....not anymore. >>


    Care to elaborate? Students want to learn. >>



    In his followup and not the OP he mentions the mint using an amalgam of gold and copper. The term amalgam refers specifically to alloys/mixtures of other metals with mercury as in the silver amalgam used in the dental business.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,756 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm usually OK with it. I think it adds character as well.
    Except the one I have....I don't like itimage




    Stefanie




    image
    CoinsAreFun Pictorials Album
    .
    CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
    .
    Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
    .
    More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>BTW there is ONE glaring error in Jay's post; anyone know what it is? >>



    Yes, it is this sentence: The MS65 1927-D in FUN 2006 HAD copper...ooops!....not anymore. >>


    Care to elaborate? Students want to learn. >>



    In his followup and not the OP he mentions the mint using an amalgam of gold and copper. The term amalgam refers specifically to alloys/mixtures of other metals with mercury as in the silver amalgam used in the dental business. >>



    OHFERCHRISSAKES!! Gimme a break, will ya.

    I meant ALLOY!:
    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are copper spots on gold coins really that different than carbon spots on copper coins?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭
    Somebody is trying to hurt these coins!!!

    image
    image
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Are copper spots on gold coins really that different than carbon spots on copper coins? >>




    Yes. Carbon is oxidation which is a chemical reaction that mars the surface. Red/orange spots are just melted copper than didn't mix 100% when being made into an alloy.
    image
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
    An improperly mixed alloy planchets (and other planchet defects) are not rewarded in any series I can think of. Certainly not early Lincoln cents.

    Is there a good way to tell if the spots are removed other than lucking upon a pre-strip photo?
    Doug
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,040 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Are copper spots on gold coins really that different than carbon spots on copper coins? >>




    Yes. Carbon is oxidation which is a chemical reaction that mars the surface. Red/orange spots are just melted copper than didn't mix 100% when being made into an alloy. >>



    I wouldn't really compare carbon spots on Lincolns to copper spots on saints. The streaky woodgrain early Lincolns are really more like them.
    Doug
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,269 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>BTW there is ONE glaring error in Jay's post; anyone know what it is? >>



    Yes, it is this sentence: The MS65 1927-D in FUN 2006 HAD copper...ooops!....not anymore. >>


    Care to elaborate? Students want to learn. >>



    In his followup and not the OP he mentions the mint using an amalgam of gold and copper. The term amalgam refers specifically to alloys/mixtures of other metals with mercury as in the silver amalgam used in the dental business. >>



    OHFERCHRISSAKES!! Gimme a break, will ya.

    I meant ALLOY!: >>



    I figgeredja prolly did.image
    theknowitalltroll;

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