I've posted this quote before, but I'll post it again in hopes someone might remember it in the future:
W.C. Fields- "You can't cheat an honest man. He has to have larceny in his heart in the first place."
In other words don, you thought you were going to get a great "bargain", a real "steal". An honest man would have bought an authentic, PSA encapsulated Rose rookie - and paid an honest price.
You took a gamble and lost. Hope you learned something.
yeah, i know that i screwed up as soon as i got the card for less than $300.. thanks for all of the comments. i do know better to just buy graded cards. after looking at everything that was pointed out it does look just like all of the signs in the posts. i wish i knew how to post a link from my ebay email.. he just emailed me and said that the reason he did not send it in to the psa was due to getting lower graded on good cardws in the past..and if he knew about the authenticity of the card " don't you think i would have sold the card for $700" and he goes on to say thathe told me that he could not tell if it were authentic or not and to bid accordingly. and all of my questions and concerns should have been addressed before the end of the auction.. i think he's telling me i just screwed you and now its up to you to get your money back...man i did it this time.. at least it was not for more money....
did'nt someone post that i can still report this auction,even though i have paid? don
You can just return it (with tracking) and file with Pay Pal. After the tracking shows it has arrived they will refund your money.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Don make sure you save all of his ebay messages also in case you need them later. Him saying he would have sold it for 700 if he knew it was real is pretty damning.
Also I agree about getting it checked ASAP. I would go with SGC to make sure you get it back in time.
1. Tell the seller not to waste his time shipping the card. (The seller may claim he "already mailed it." If he does, tell him you are calling T&S to report the listing as a TOS violation; T&S can void the listing, even though it has ended. You can then file a PP SNAD immediately.)
2. Tell the seller to refund NOW, and you will leave NO FB. (If you have to go through the claim process, obvioulsy, a NEG would be in order; do NOT say that in any emails.)
3. If the card arrives, call JO and refer him to this thread. Ask him to please help you rush the card through; AND, immediately open a SNAD at PayPal before the counterfeit card comes back from PSA.
The seller's "no return" policy is VOID in this PayPal transaction. If he wants to drag the fraud out, it will end poorly for him. His rep has now been shafted with ALOT of readers.
NOTE: To donrus......Don't do anything like this again, and expect to get alot of help. When you see a scam listing, report it.....don't bid on it.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
well basically he had told me that he has sold thousands of cards and im the 1st to want to return a card before it ships. and he says his feed back proves it.. i said you did not try to sell them a fake or altered card.. he told me to go ahead and report the auction.. don
"he told me to go ahead and report the auction.. don "
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Do it.
If T&S asks you if you "knew it was a fake" before you bid on it say, "No; the title says it's a blahblah."
As repeatedly noted, his disclaimer is a TOS violation. Call T&S and talk to a supervisor. Tell him/her you have been ripped-off and want the listing voided and your money refunded.
After you get your refund (unless he voluntarily issues it):
NEG: "BEWARE: Sells Counterfeit Cards. Violates Terms Of Service. Total FRAUD and SCAM."
Leave one-star across the board.
Put the guy on your BBL.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
You should only leave feedback that is factual and you can prove. Think long and hard before taking Storms advice of leaving NEG: "BEWARE: Sells Counterfeit Cards. Violates Terms Of Service. Total FRAUD and SCAM." You do not know for sure the card is counterfeit. You never looked at the card in person to establish it was counterfeit, trimmed, or just fine. Leaving feedback like that with no facts to back it up is irresponsible.
"You should only leave feedback that is factual and you can prove. Think long and hard before taking Storms advice of leaving NEG: "BEWARE: Sells Counterfeit Cards. Violates Terms Of Service. Total FRAUD and SCAM." You do not know for sure the card is counterfeit. You never looked at the card in person to establish it was counterfeit, trimmed, or just fine. Leaving feedback like that with no facts to back it up is irresponsible. "
/////////////////////////////////////////
There is some merit to some of that.
It looks like the buyer is going to have an opportunity to get a TPG opinion on the card. At that point, it is clearly "safe" to allege the card is counterfeit.
As to being "irresponsible," the seller has gone there with his TOS-violating listing.
Common sense tells many folks that $134 does not buy a card on EBAY that is "worth" $500+.
The seller is a PRO. He knows the card is NO GOOD.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>"You should only leave feedback that is factual and you can prove. Think long and hard before taking Storms advice of leaving NEG: "BEWARE: Sells Counterfeit Cards. Violates Terms Of Service. Total FRAUD and SCAM." You do not know for sure the card is counterfeit. You never looked at the card in person to establish it was counterfeit, trimmed, or just fine. Leaving feedback like that with no facts to back it up is irresponsible. "
/////////////////////////////////////////
There is some merit to some of that.
It looks like the buyer is going to have an opportunity to get a TPG opinion on the card. At that point, it is clearly "safe" to allege the card is counterfeit.
As to being "irresponsible," the seller has gone there with his TOS-violating listing.
Common sense tells many folks that $134 does not buy a card on EBAY that is "worth" $500+.
The seller is a PRO. He knows the card is NO GOOD. >>
At what point does the buyer have some responsibility in this matter? Obviously there was doubt. Why would they come here and ask opinions if they didn't have doubts? They haven't received the card.
I'm not trying to give the seller a free pass. He's obviously taking advantage of the situation, but the buyer should not be looked upon as the complete innocent, either!
Due diligence and the responsibility of performing such cannot be ignored in this case. The buyer rolled the dice and apparently lost and wants us to believe he's the victim. Sorry, I ain't buying that one.
Not meaning to pile on here, but I have had to get paypal to reimburse me for a Rose RC that was represented as authentic that turned out to be counterfeit. When it comes to this card especially, I long ago decided that the best bet was to buy a graded Rose.
But, I agree with most of what's been posted. I would first try to get him to refund your money by stating that you fully intend to return the card if it doesn't grade. Once he sees you are serious, he may decide it's not worth the hassle and will second chance offer it to another bidder.
This whole discussion is based-on "EBAY/PayPal rules" and NOT on private-sale doctrine.
Buyers who do this kind of thing repeatedly - gamble on a miracle - get little/no sympathy from me. The OP admits that he did something stupid, and I suspect/hope he will not let it happen again.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
comon i thought i was getting a good card,i did not know it was going to go below $300 or $700 for that matter. yeah i thought that the listing was alittle harsh and thats why no one else bid on it.. i should have read the whole listing before bidding. i was just going through last min pete's and it was there tossed a bid out.yeah after the fact i feel i have a responsibility in the matter i paid for it. i have spent over $2000 in the last week on cards was not thinking that this was the one to screw me. for all i knew i had just picked up a 6 or 7 pete and i wanted to post it. and people started telling me there was something wrong with the card.. don
Even your harshest critics are still somewhat sympathetic. Best not to try to defend your actions too stridently.
Just concentrate on undoing the error.
The "I didn't read the listing" issue can usually be used in T&S issues. BUT, if you emailed the seller before the close of the auction, it is usually best not to rely on that too much with PP/T&S.
Just lean on "the listing is a TOS violation" and "I now know the card is fake."
If the guy ships the card and then fights your PP claim, PP will likley make you get the docs from PSA before they force the refund.
It is always easier to get into these messes than to get out of them.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
im not worried about it.. i spent over 2k on cards last week..im not sure i need to worry about it. it looks like ebay canceled the auction..hmm. i did not even report it..why would they do that?? don
<< <i>When a seller states that a card such as a Rose RC "has never been sent in for grading and that he cannot guarantee authenticity" of the card he is really saying, "I am certain this card is a reprint or trimmed, so don't blame me when PSA rejects it." That is a huge red flag and put there so he can claim that he warned you...I hope I'm wrong, but I would not be optimistic if I were you. >>
My thoughts exactly. I don't know that it's a reprint, but it's definitely gotten a haircut, and a bad one at that.
Not to browbeat the OP, but people should learn to make these posts BEFORE buying the card. Of course they are always "afraid" that by showing the auction publically in a forum like this, that someone from the forum is going to see it and outbid them. I can understand that, but with 90 million ebayers out there, I wouldn't worry about what a few here might do - I'd be more concerned about getting good opinions and advice here, and saving myself the aggravation of throwing away money on a fake card, and having to deal with a scammer.
im glad that ebay seen what was going down..i did not even report it and somehow ebay decided to gank to auction.. as far as the big spender comment keep it.lol i bought those 2 tristar pete roses that are 1of 2 and 2 of 2 and a 1968 pete psa 8, 1965 pete in psa 8, and several sport king pete roses..oh yeah i forgot about the trimmed,altered,fake or what ever rookie i just posted about..
for everyone that helped out, thanks.. yes, i am a sucker for a cheap card but i really learned my lesson. i will never again do that im glad i got out with out any problem..
im just going to save or sell those ulgy(lol) tristar cards and the sportkings so i can get a real rookie. don
Don, I hope it all works out for you and suspect it will. My rule of thumb is that if a seller takes the time to state they cannot guarantee the item to be authentic, then I can guarantee them I will not be bidding on it. This would be especially true for a seller like this, who typically omits such disclaimers.
My advice would be to know exactly what you are bidding on before doing such. If you're not sure about something, pass.
Don't get greedy, and let that thought of a possible steal cloud your better judgement..
The op was very foolish with this purchase, but I will not blast him this time, since I believe he has learned a lesson from this.
The seller should be kicked in the rear, and off of Ebay, for even trying to pull this stunt. It's not his first time with selling fakes, according to his previous feedback.
oh trust me..i know i am guilty of being greedy,thought i was getting something for nothing.. for like 10mins till i posted the 1st post.. i will never fall into that again. hopefully i will not have to buy many more i need 63,64,66,67,69. then i think i am gonna call it quits on pete. i have a ton of money invested in my set and i should probably stop before anything else happens.. don
I am curious what would have happened if seller didn't make disclaimer about questionable authenticity. Bidding would have hit $300+ and good probability that card wouldn't get graded. Strange listing.
<< <i>I am curious what would have happened if seller didn't make disclaimer about questionable authenticity. Bidding would have hit $300+ and good probability that card wouldn't get graded. Strange listing. >>
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Such a card could easily end up in a screwdown and stay there for decades.
Lots of folks like their cards raw.
Dangerous listing.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
im not worried about it.. i spent over 2k on cards last week..im not sure i need to worry about it. it looks like ebay canceled the auction..hmm. i did not even report it..why would they do that?? don I bet a friend reported it for you......................
USN 1977-1987 * ALL cards are commons unless auto'd. Buying Britneycards. NWO for life.
<< <i>im glad that ebay seen what was going down..i did not even report it and somehow ebay decided to gank to auction.. as far as the big spender comment keep it.lol i bought those 2 tristar pete roses that are 1of 2 and 2 of 2 and a 1968 pete psa 8, 1965 pete in psa 8, and several sport king pete roses..oh yeah i forgot about the trimmed,altered,fake or what ever rookie i just posted about..
for everyone that helped out, thanks.. yes, i am a sucker for a cheap card but i really learned my lesson. i will never again do that im glad i got out with out any problem..
im just going to save or sell those ulgy(lol) tristar cards and the sportkings so i can get a real rookie. don >>
I think it is more that someone on here reported that auction to e-bay and is just keeping that fact to themselves. E-bay doesn't go through completed listings looking to see if they were legit. They have too many other listings to deal with. Just say a big thank you to whomever pulled you out of this mess.
Comments
W.C. Fields-
"You can't cheat an honest man. He has to have larceny in his heart in the first place."
In other words don, you thought you were going to get a great "bargain", a real "steal". An honest man would have bought an authentic, PSA encapsulated Rose rookie - and paid an honest price.
You took a gamble and lost. Hope you learned something.
That is like throwing good money after bad. The card is a counterfeit and the seller knows this.
If it was me I'd tell this seller that I'd rather not continue with his blatant scam auction.
Steve
On ebay, if you go to page 1 of this thread about 4 or 5 posts down is the link.
Steve
2. it may very well be a fake
3. pay with paypal so you can get your money back
4. Neg. victoriously!
did'nt someone post that i can still report this auction,even though i have paid? don
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Also I agree about getting it checked ASAP. I would go with SGC to make sure you get it back in time.
<< <i>yeah, i know that i screwed up as soon as i got the card for less than $300 >>
Obviously you didn't. First post you were excited that you got a PSA 6 or better quality Rose rookie for $134.
1. Tell the seller not to waste his time shipping the card.
(The seller may claim he "already mailed it." If he does,
tell him you are calling T&S to report the listing as a TOS
violation; T&S can void the listing, even though it has ended.
You can then file a PP SNAD immediately.)
2. Tell the seller to refund NOW, and you will leave NO FB.
(If you have to go through the claim process, obvioulsy, a
NEG would be in order; do NOT say that in any emails.)
3. If the card arrives, call JO and refer him to this thread.
Ask him to please help you rush the card through; AND,
immediately open a SNAD at PayPal before the counterfeit
card comes back from PSA.
The seller's "no return" policy is VOID in this PayPal transaction.
If he wants to drag the fraud out, it will end poorly for him.
His rep has now been shafted with ALOT of readers.
NOTE: To donrus......Don't do anything like this again, and
expect to get alot of help. When you see a scam listing, report
it.....don't bid on it.
/////////////////////////////////////
Do it.
If T&S asks you if you "knew it was a fake" before you bid on it say,
"No; the title says it's a blahblah."
As repeatedly noted, his disclaimer is a TOS violation. Call T&S and
talk to a supervisor. Tell him/her you have been ripped-off and want
the listing voided and your money refunded.
After you get your refund (unless he voluntarily issues it):
NEG: "BEWARE: Sells Counterfeit Cards. Violates Terms Of Service. Total FRAUD and SCAM."
Leave one-star across the board.
Put the guy on your BBL.
pp snad (paypal something?)
im going to go ahead and report it. don
Think long and hard before taking Storms advice of leaving NEG:
"BEWARE: Sells Counterfeit Cards. Violates Terms Of Service. Total FRAUD and SCAM."
You do not know for sure the card is counterfeit.
You never looked at the card in person to establish it was counterfeit, trimmed, or just fine.
Leaving feedback like that with no facts to back it up is irresponsible.
<< <i>what is a <a href="mailto:t@s">t&s</A>? tos (terms of sale?)
pp snad (paypal something?)
im going to go ahead and report it. don >>
/////////////////////////////////////////////
T&S = Trust & Safety
TOS = Terms Of Service
SNAD - Significantly Not As Described
INR = Item Not Received
UID = Unpaid Item Dispute
PP = PayPal
BBL = Blocked Bidder List
...........................
...........
EBAY = PITA
Think long and hard before taking Storms advice of leaving NEG:
"BEWARE: Sells Counterfeit Cards. Violates Terms Of Service. Total FRAUD and SCAM."
You do not know for sure the card is counterfeit.
You never looked at the card in person to establish it was counterfeit, trimmed, or just fine.
Leaving feedback like that with no facts to back it up is irresponsible. "
/////////////////////////////////////////
There is some merit to some of that.
It looks like the buyer is going to have an opportunity to get
a TPG opinion on the card. At that point, it is clearly "safe" to
allege the card is counterfeit.
As to being "irresponsible," the seller has gone there with his
TOS-violating listing.
Common sense tells many folks that $134 does not buy a card
on EBAY that is "worth" $500+.
The seller is a PRO. He knows the card is NO GOOD.
<< <i>"You should only leave feedback that is factual and you can prove.
Think long and hard before taking Storms advice of leaving NEG:
"BEWARE: Sells Counterfeit Cards. Violates Terms Of Service. Total FRAUD and SCAM."
You do not know for sure the card is counterfeit.
You never looked at the card in person to establish it was counterfeit, trimmed, or just fine.
Leaving feedback like that with no facts to back it up is irresponsible. "
/////////////////////////////////////////
There is some merit to some of that.
It looks like the buyer is going to have an opportunity to get
a TPG opinion on the card. At that point, it is clearly "safe" to
allege the card is counterfeit.
As to being "irresponsible," the seller has gone there with his
TOS-violating listing.
Common sense tells many folks that $134 does not buy a card
on EBAY that is "worth" $500+.
The seller is a PRO. He knows the card is NO GOOD. >>
At what point does the buyer have some responsibility in this matter? Obviously there was doubt. Why would they come here and ask opinions if they didn't have doubts? They haven't received the card.
I'm not trying to give the seller a free pass. He's obviously taking advantage of the situation, but the buyer should not be looked upon as the complete innocent, either!
Due diligence and the responsibility of performing such cannot be ignored in this case. The buyer rolled the dice and apparently lost and wants us to believe he's the victim. Sorry, I ain't buying that one.
But, I agree with most of what's been posted. I would first try to get him to refund your money by stating that you fully intend to return the card if it doesn't grade. Once he sees you are serious, he may decide it's not worth the hassle and will second chance offer it to another bidder.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The buyer is GUILTY of some things.
This whole discussion is based-on "EBAY/PayPal rules" and NOT on
private-sale doctrine.
Buyers who do this kind of thing repeatedly - gamble on a miracle -
get little/no sympathy from me. The OP admits that he did something
stupid, and I suspect/hope he will not let it happen again.
Even your harshest critics are still somewhat sympathetic.
Best not to try to defend your actions too stridently.
Just concentrate on undoing the error.
The "I didn't read the listing" issue can usually be used in
T&S issues. BUT, if you emailed the seller before the close
of the auction, it is usually best not to rely on that too
much with PP/T&S.
Just lean on "the listing is a TOS violation" and "I now
know the card is fake."
If the guy ships the card and then fights your PP claim,
PP will likley make you get the docs from PSA before they
force the refund.
It is always easier to get into these messes than to get out of them.
Steve
edited to change 'this' to 'last'
Big Spender(s) Forum...
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<< <i>When a seller states that a card such as a Rose RC "has never been sent in for grading and that he cannot guarantee authenticity" of the card he is really saying, "I am certain this card is a reprint or trimmed, so don't blame me when PSA rejects it." That is a huge red flag and put there so he can claim that he warned you...I hope I'm wrong, but I would not be optimistic if I were you. >>
My thoughts exactly. I don't know that it's a reprint, but it's definitely gotten a haircut, and a bad one at that.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
<< <i>All this stress over 134.00, I tipped that amount last month alone.
Steve
edited to change 'this' to 'last' >>
LOL
i bought those 2 tristar pete roses that are 1of 2 and 2 of 2 and a 1968 pete psa 8, 1965 pete in psa 8, and several sport king pete roses..oh yeah i forgot about the trimmed,altered,fake or what ever rookie i just posted about..
for everyone that helped out, thanks.. yes, i am a sucker for a cheap card but i really learned my lesson. i will never again do that im glad i got out with out any problem..
im just going to save or sell those ulgy(lol) tristar cards and the sportkings so i can get a real rookie. don
Snorto~
Don't get greedy, and let that thought of a possible steal cloud your better judgement..
The op was very foolish with this purchase, but I will not blast him this time, since I believe he has learned a lesson from this.
The seller should be kicked in the rear, and off of Ebay, for even trying to pull this stunt. It's not his first time with selling fakes, according to his previous feedback.
<< <i>I am curious what would have happened if seller didn't make disclaimer about questionable authenticity. Bidding would have hit $300+ and good probability that card wouldn't get graded. Strange listing. >>
///////////////////////////////////////////////
Such a card could easily end up in a screwdown and stay there for decades.
Lots of folks like their cards raw.
Dangerous listing.
don
<< <i>this is kinda funny.. the guy that tried to sell me this card refunded my money and said "now you will never know..good luck."
don >>
That is good for you!
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Steve
<< <i>im glad that ebay seen what was going down..i did not even report it and somehow ebay decided to gank to auction.. as far as the big spender comment keep it.lol
i bought those 2 tristar pete roses that are 1of 2 and 2 of 2 and a 1968 pete psa 8, 1965 pete in psa 8, and several sport king pete roses..oh yeah i forgot about the trimmed,altered,fake or what ever rookie i just posted about..
for everyone that helped out, thanks.. yes, i am a sucker for a cheap card but i really learned my lesson. i will never again do that im glad i got out with out any problem..
im just going to save or sell those ulgy(lol) tristar cards and the sportkings so i can get a real rookie. don >>
I think it is more that someone on here reported that auction to e-bay and is just keeping that fact to themselves. E-bay doesn't go through completed listings looking to see if they were legit. They have too many other listings to deal with. Just say a big thank you to whomever pulled you out of this mess.