Well, as I was expecting, I got my first negative ~~~ UPDATE: new hate-mail from buyer (see 3/29 pos
numisma
Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭✭
I posted about an eBay situation the other day: link to thread
I had a "U.S. only" auction on eBay and the high bidder was from India. I told him that, although I do sometimes ship to India, I would not for this auction because of my arrangement with the consignor (they do not want the risk). We communicated via email breifly and the tone of the messages was odd (see below). He asked if I would ship to his brother's house in the U.S., which I would have been willing to do, but he wanted to pay with a credit card and I would have been shipping to an unconfirmed address. Considering how little I was making on the deal, I got tired of talking and just offered the lot to the underbidder, who immediately paid via PayPal and gave a confirmed address. I shipped the items that same day via Priority Mail at no cost (the auctions I am currently running have free shipping/insurance).
There were a few short messages through eBay in addition to what's below. He wanted to email me his credit card info, which is the first time that has ever happened. Here's the email exchange:
(first email)
Rajan,
That would be fine to ship to your U.S. address. However, if paying by credit card, the address must match the billing adress on the card. If paying with PayPal, it must be a confirmed address. You could mail an international money order or have someone send a payment from a U.S. address. I apologize for the inconvenience, but that is why the consignor wanted to do only U.S. shipments. If you would rather back out of the auction, that would be acceptable with no problems.
Thank you,
Dennis
Dear Dennis,
It was a great shock that you have cancelled this auction in E bay,
Dear I spent the whole of my nights watching & bidding on this item -i won it and now i deserve it.
If you feel it has gone below price i can give more money + postage for this item.
My brother is a permanent resident of U.S.A. & there is no problem of money transfer or collection of your item.
Kindly don't break my heart .
Regards,
Rajan
(second email)
Dear Rajan,
The decision was that of my consignor. This has nothing to do with the closing price of the auction, as I don't own the items that I sell on eBay. However, as someone with years of experience in collectibles, I can tell you that the items you bid on sold for far more than they were worth. As a coin dealer, this is something that I would pay $50 for and sell for $75. With that being said, I would be happy to find you similar items for sale and deal with you directly. I can get you a better price than what you bid on. Actually, if you tell me specifically what you are in search of, I can try to locate those items for you. I do ship all of the world and last year I shipped a very large collection to India with no problems. The consignor of my current auctions has dictated these are U.S. only auctions, for whatever their reasons. I just think that they have had problems in the past with overseas bidders.
Please let me know if you would like me to find you similar items and I will do my best to make you happy. The last thing I want to do is ever hurt anyone in any way. I buy and sell many coins and stamps, so I may have something of interest to you that is not owned by a consignor, but rather directly by me.
Sincerely,
Dennis
Dear Brother,
Thanks a lot but the tears are just in my eyes , I will mail you later.
Thanks & Regards,
Rajan
The next communication was a negative: Link to feedback
Since the auction clearly stated "ships to United States," will eBay remove this negative?
I had a "U.S. only" auction on eBay and the high bidder was from India. I told him that, although I do sometimes ship to India, I would not for this auction because of my arrangement with the consignor (they do not want the risk). We communicated via email breifly and the tone of the messages was odd (see below). He asked if I would ship to his brother's house in the U.S., which I would have been willing to do, but he wanted to pay with a credit card and I would have been shipping to an unconfirmed address. Considering how little I was making on the deal, I got tired of talking and just offered the lot to the underbidder, who immediately paid via PayPal and gave a confirmed address. I shipped the items that same day via Priority Mail at no cost (the auctions I am currently running have free shipping/insurance).
There were a few short messages through eBay in addition to what's below. He wanted to email me his credit card info, which is the first time that has ever happened. Here's the email exchange:
(first email)
Rajan,
That would be fine to ship to your U.S. address. However, if paying by credit card, the address must match the billing adress on the card. If paying with PayPal, it must be a confirmed address. You could mail an international money order or have someone send a payment from a U.S. address. I apologize for the inconvenience, but that is why the consignor wanted to do only U.S. shipments. If you would rather back out of the auction, that would be acceptable with no problems.
Thank you,
Dennis
Dear Dennis,
It was a great shock that you have cancelled this auction in E bay,
Dear I spent the whole of my nights watching & bidding on this item -i won it and now i deserve it.
If you feel it has gone below price i can give more money + postage for this item.
My brother is a permanent resident of U.S.A. & there is no problem of money transfer or collection of your item.
Kindly don't break my heart .
Regards,
Rajan
(second email)
Dear Rajan,
The decision was that of my consignor. This has nothing to do with the closing price of the auction, as I don't own the items that I sell on eBay. However, as someone with years of experience in collectibles, I can tell you that the items you bid on sold for far more than they were worth. As a coin dealer, this is something that I would pay $50 for and sell for $75. With that being said, I would be happy to find you similar items for sale and deal with you directly. I can get you a better price than what you bid on. Actually, if you tell me specifically what you are in search of, I can try to locate those items for you. I do ship all of the world and last year I shipped a very large collection to India with no problems. The consignor of my current auctions has dictated these are U.S. only auctions, for whatever their reasons. I just think that they have had problems in the past with overseas bidders.
Please let me know if you would like me to find you similar items and I will do my best to make you happy. The last thing I want to do is ever hurt anyone in any way. I buy and sell many coins and stamps, so I may have something of interest to you that is not owned by a consignor, but rather directly by me.
Sincerely,
Dennis
Dear Brother,
Thanks a lot but the tears are just in my eyes , I will mail you later.
Thanks & Regards,
Rajan
The next communication was a negative: Link to feedback
Since the auction clearly stated "ships to United States," will eBay remove this negative?
0
Comments
edited to add, I see below that it says only some of our auctions will ship outside the US, but at the least, it is confusing....
<< <i>Kindly don't break my heart.
...
Thanks a lot but the tears are just in my eyes >>
So the drama, as Kim Possible would say...
<< <i>It says right in the auction "Bidders outside of the U.S. will pay actual shipping/insurance to their destination. " That may be a problem. Sorry. >>
It also says, "Only some of our auctions ship outside of the U.S."
Having said that, I'd probably agree that Dennis could have been a little more explicit in the terms, even though the item itself clearly only lists the U.S. for shipping.
If nothing else, now I know why I always make it clear in my listings that I only accept PayPal for shipping to confirmed addresses.
<< <i>It says right in the auction "Bidders outside of the U.S. will pay actual shipping/insurance to their destination. " That may be a problem. Sorry.
edited to add, I see below that it says only some of our auctions will ship outside the US, but at the least, it is confusing.... >>
Yes, I think also that this will be a problem.
<< <i>Yeah I saw that too, maybe you could offer some token item to the bidder to do a bid retraction to make up for the confusion the bidder may have had? >>
Even if he does a bid retraction, won't it still show the negative? I will certainly edit my terms on future auctions. I was suprised that the eBay system allowed a foreign bidder to even bid on an auction that was selected as "U.S. only." Seems like it would be easy to have the system automatically block outside bidders. I took Russ' advice in the other thread and edited my eBay and PayPal preferences.
<< <i>Even if he does a bid retraction, won't it still show the negative? >>
Actually he can't retract the bid now. Perhaps he meant to say "feedback removal by mutual agreement"?
<< <i>
<< <i>Even if he does a bid retraction, won't it still show the negative? >>
Actually he can't retract the bid now. Perhaps he meant to say "feedback removal by mutual agreement"? >>
That's what I meant. Geesh. I even offered to find similar items for this guy for less money. Nice way of telling me thanks!
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah I saw that too, maybe you could offer some token item to the bidder to do a bid retraction to make up for the confusion the bidder may have had? >>
Even if he does a bid retraction, won't it still show the negative? I will certainly edit my terms on future auctions. I was suprised that the eBay system allowed a foreign bidder to even bid on an auction that was selected as "U.S. only." Seems like it would be easy to have the system automatically block outside bidders. I took Russ' advice in the other thread and edited my eBay and PayPal preferences. >>
Is it possible you used an eBay template from a previous auction?
If so, the new adjustments you make won't reflect on any or all auctions that use that template without going in, before listing the item, and modifying it.
peacockcoins
Then you will really get the NEG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>Be careful Dennis next time you need help and call into a Call Center you might just get him.
Then you will really get the NEG!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Yeah, but with any luck he'd get an invitation to take a survey on his experience.
<< <i>Your emails to him are reasonable. I would neg him back. >>
I don't know- I think the bidder was a bit rash in leaving the neg, but devil's advocate time... the auction listing said "Ships to: United States", the buyer offered to provide a US address for shipping, and there is nothing in the listing that notes a requirement of a confirmed address for a PayPal payment.
To the buyer you are the seller.
I don't know if it makes any difference in this case but I know if I heard my seller say that he wasn't the real seller early on I'd expect nothing but trouble from that point on.
Good luck with it. My comments are just meant to be an opinion and not a criticism.
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
<< <i>Be careful Dennis next time you need help and call into a Call Center you might just get him.
Then you will really get the NEG!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
Second, I'd bet he doesn't know the term "consignor". Remember when dealing with other countries, they might not know more difficult words.
<< <i>
<< <i>Your emails to him are reasonable. I would neg him back. >>
I don't know- I think the bidder was a bit rash in leaving the neg, but devil's advocate time... the auction listing said "Ships to: United States", the buyer offered to provide a US address for shipping, and there is nothing in the listing that notes a requirement of a confirmed address for a PayPal payment. >>
I was actually considering shipping the stuff to India. I have done this in the past with no problems, other than more time and risk than shipping to the U.S. However, I got spooked when he wanted to email me his credit card info. I just pictured in my head that he would receive the items and then do a chargeback. Then what? I would have to explain to my consignor that someone stole their stuff and I would be on the hook, since I was told to ship in the U.S. only. The sad thing is that I am making less than $20 on this entire thing.
I am really not that upset about it. However, it is sad to see how some people react in daily situations. If I were him, I would have respectfully backed out of the auction and not left any feedback. I have even had sellers back out on me for various reasons and, since the reasons have always seemed reasonable (lost item, error in listing, etc.), I have never left a negative. I just wish people could get along in a more professional manner.
My prediction: eBay will have the negative removed.
Just my opinion - learn from it, take the neg, and move on.
<< <i>My prediction: eBay will have the negative removed. >>
Much as I like you Dennis, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. It takes a lot for eBay to remove a neg. The only thing they've removed for me was a follow-up comment when the buyer called me an A$$HOLE... removed for profanity (but not the neg itself).
<< <i>I would have probably shipped it and paid the consignor accepting the risk myself. --Jerry >>
"small potato auction"...less than $200 in value...
<< <i>
<< <i>I would have probably shipped it and paid the consignor accepting the risk myself. --Jerry >>
"small potato auction"...less than $200 in value... >>
Yep, I agree
Menomonee Falls Wisconsin USA
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistr...dset.aspx?s=68269&ac=1">Musky 1861 Mint Set
So far eBay is not understanding the situation. They are telling me to leave a follow-up comment and to neg the buyer. As expected, the eBay contact I am dealing with is in India. Its a small world after all.....its a small world after all....
Like I said before, I am not upset by this. I am wasting me time posting about it just as a learning experience. I actually decided a few weeks ago that I was going to slowly phase out my eBay activity. eBay was once fun (back in the late 90s), but they have grown so big that now it is too complicated and some of their latest decisions seem to defy all logic.
I doubt that I will leave the guy in India a negative, even though I had every right to refuse to sell to him. Remember that his only payment method was to email me his credit card info. What was I going to do with that? I asked for an international money order or PayPal, but his next response was the negative. So, for those of you who think that I deserved this negative, I respectfully disagree with your position.
<< <i>I asked for an international money order or PayPal, but his next response was the negative. So, for those of you who think that I deserved this negative, I respectfully disagree with your position. >>
In your first thread, you said "He wants to use a credit card via PayPal from India." If he changed his mind about using PayPal and wanted to pay using a method not included in your auction listing as acceptable, then you had every right not to complete the transaction with him.
<< <i>So far eBay is not understanding the situation. They are telling me to leave a follow-up comment and to neg the buyer. As expected, the eBay contact I am dealing with is in India. Its a small world after all.....its a small world after all.... >>
They are encouraging retaliatory feedback from a seller who's negged by the buyer?
I thought that was what they were trying to avoid with the coming changes to feedback. Now strictly speaking I'd say negging the buyer was deserved and not pure retaliation, but still...
<< <i>
<< <i>I asked for an international money order or PayPal, but his next response was the negative. So, for those of you who think that I deserved this negative, I respectfully disagree with your position. >>
In your first thread, you said "He wants to use a credit card via PayPal from India." If he changed his mind about using PayPal and wanted to pay using a method not included in your auction listing as acceptable, then you had every right not to complete the transaction with him. >>
I asked him to pay via PayPal or money order. He never mentioned to me in an email that he had PayPal. Here's the message he sent on the 3/20: Give your email id, so that I can send you card details. BYE
The whole thing seemed funny to me. At the time that the auction closed, he only had 9 feedback and everything was for under $10 and many were Indian auctions. Again, I gave him the chance to send a money order or use PayPal. I even suggested that the money be sent by his brother in the U.S. Maybe this whole thing was just a communications problem. The only payment option he had for me was to email me his credit card info, which is useless to me.
feedback is meant for just this occasion.
<< <i>I asked him to pay via PayPal or money order. He never mentioned to me in an email that he had PayPal. >>
I was just going from what you wrote in the other thread (this is a direct copy&paste from your post there) : "He wants to use a credit card via PayPal from India."
I apologize for any confusion in misreading that comment to mean that he wanted to pay through PayPal.
<< <i>just neg him back stating very confusing seller wanting to bend the rules to suit him.
feedback is meant for just this occasion. >>
Don't you mean "very confused buyer"? Or was this a freudian slip?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>just neg him back stating very confusing seller wanting to bend the rules to suit him.
feedback is meant for just this occasion. >>
Don't you mean "very confused buyer"? Or was this a freudian slip?
doh! hehehe. i meant buyer.
I see he is also a seller on eBay. For his sake, hopefully his buyers will be more reasonable than he is.
Sorry about the negative. Since he didn't comply with the payment terms, you could have filed for your FVF credit before offering the coin elsewhere (and chosen the option of buyer wants the item shipped to an Unconfirmed address). Once the FVF dispute was closed, you could then freely offer the coin elsewhere. Buyer may have still given you the negative, but the history of discourse through the FVF process may have given eBay enough cause to remove the negative.
The listing terms were SUPER contradictory, but the buyer is still an a$$.
There is also a 50/50 chance that the buyer was setting the seller up for a
chargeback scam.
<< <i>Remember that his only payment method was to email me his credit card info. >>
I missed that part... and now I think you are correct (I thought we were dealing with a CC through PayPal). In this case, I would leave a neg because the buyer indeed couldn't pay to your specifications, even if he may have been correct about you shipping out of the country.
<< <i>
<< <i>I asked him to pay via PayPal or money order. He never mentioned to me in an email that he had PayPal. >>
I was just going from what you wrote in the other thread (this is a direct copy&paste from your post there) : "He wants to use a credit card via PayPal from India."
I apologize for any confusion in misreading that comment to mean that he wanted to pay through PayPal. >>
No need to apologize. I made that statement in error.
I am now going to edit my terms to be VERY clear for each auction. In hindsight, I can see that I did not try hard enough to accomodate the buyer, but there really was no need to neg me. The stuff sold for too much anyway, so in a way I may have done him a favor (unless he saw something that I didn't, or he really needed something in that lot).
Now his brother is getting deported. How sad
“I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am. When two expeditions of scientists, financed by the Royal Academy, went forth to test my theory of relativity, I was convinced that their conclusions would tally with my hypothesis. I was not surprised when the eclipse of May 29, 1919, confirmed my intuitions. I would have been surprised if I had been wrong. I am enough of the artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.” Albert Einstein- quoted in Saturday Evening Post interview (1929)
“Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.” For Einstein, honesty was fundamental. Attention to truth in small things reflected a person’s integrity on a larger scale.
<< <i>Your emails to him are reasonable. I would neg him back. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Your emails to him are reasonable. I would neg him back. >>