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Safes: How safe is your safe?
mrearlygold
Posts: 17,858 ✭✭✭
Lots of talk about safes and clearly the majority take this hobby much too lightly when it comes to alarms, safes, insurance and confidentiality. Let's take a look at safes in this thread shall we?
Gun safes are not safe. Safes purchased at Home Depot are not safe. TL-15 and TL-30 Burglary rated safes are pretty safe if backed up by a good alarm and an owner who watches who he/she talks to about the hobby.
Check this video out
Security on Sale: Gun Safe Break-in
Please take this seriously.
Gun safes are not safe. Safes purchased at Home Depot are not safe. TL-15 and TL-30 Burglary rated safes are pretty safe if backed up by a good alarm and an owner who watches who he/she talks to about the hobby.
Check this video out
Security on Sale: Gun Safe Break-in
Please take this seriously.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
0
Comments
Dave
I would guess that with buying a safe its like anything else, you get what you pay for. If you really want to protect your stuff well you need to pony up.
Side note... I love the small safes they sell at home improvement stores that one or two guys could pick up and carry off.
The thieves will find a way to get into anything.
Ray
<< <i>I love the small safes they sell at home improvement stores that one or two guys could pick up and carry off.
Most of these small safes are designed to be bolted to the floor using lag bolts through the floor of the safe.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
And, don't forget your housekeeper(s). Obviously, they are the inside guys...
Seriously, though, if you don't use a safety deposit box - these are cheap, or don't have
a serious alarm system, you kinda get what you pay for, apparently...
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
I'm thinking about a floor safe with
1 or 2" solid steel door with relockers etc..
Most cheap safes- the door is formed from thin guage metal.
What brands of locks are best?
Is an electronic lock better ?
Would 5K buy a "commercial" safe?
Note: the safes from **** Depot are sold as
FIRE SAFES. Most would only servive a couple of
wacks with a ten pound hammer. They won't
servive much of a fire either.
I've been in the jewelry business for over 30 years.........the bottom line is......no safe is safe....the bank is as safe as you can get! I have always known that everything in my store is vulnerable to thieves......yes even the safe...............if the right person wants what you have....they are going to get it. The best way to protect yourself and your property is "Lack of Exposure, If you tempt them they will come. Period.
My safes have never been broken into.......because the "right" person did not see any reason to do it!
<< <i>an effective hiding spot for a safe is just as important as the safe itself. >>
The cheap home depot safes are absolutely, 100% PERFECT to put cull coins, several old rolls of wheat cents, etc, and use as a decoy.
Think of this scenario, which is commonplace in the jewelry business.....your awakened at 3:00 am by the barrel of a 45 cal. pressed against your head, or a home invasion during waking hours and you have to decide between your valuables or a family member............hiding them or putting them in a TL30 or better safe will not help! You will show them where it is and you will open it......and if your lucky you will survive.
The only thing that will help is to maintain as low a profile with your belongings as possible........JMO
edited to add.......carrying would'nt hurt either.
<< <i>They have a point... buy cheap, get cheap.... There is no way that could be done to my safe. The cross locking bars and heavy steel would prevent such efforts. Being trained in locksmithing and combination safes, I obviously have an edge over Joe Sixpack... however, their advice about seeing a professional is excellent. You can have your safe (and valuables) at home with the right product and precautions. Cheers, RickO >>
ricko, the video said it was a $1000 safe. what does a good safe cost?
my bro has a gun safe bolted to the floor but i wonder just how secure they are? if they can be moved they are not secure.
<< <i>My wife bought me a home depot safe for xmas. I just have it sitting empty on my closet floor. My hope here is that if a theif comes here, he will take the piece of crap safe and run like hell.... My coins are elsewhere!!! >>
cool decoy!!! just for shiz & giggles superglue it to the floor and make the thief fight for it
blaring and the police on the way is still a must, along with keeping a low profile and storing the most expensive items in a bank safe deposit box.
<< <i>
<< <i>I love the small safes they sell at home improvement stores that one or two guys could pick up and carry off.
Most of these small safes are designed to be bolted to the floor using lag bolts through the floor of the safe. >>
Mine is encased in concrete, you would need a jack hammer to knock it over.
Whats better is that if someone did mange to open it all of the really valuable stuff is at the bank.
SAFELINK
<< <i>
<< <i>an effective hiding spot for a safe is just as important as the safe itself. >>
The cheap home depot safes are absolutely, 100% PERFECT to put cull coins, several old rolls of wheat cents, etc, and use as a decoy. >>
Slipgate is right, A cheap Home depot or Target store bought "sentry" safe is a GREAT decoy.
Most thieves are in for the smash and grab. They are not carrying around the tools needed to attempt a safe break in.
A small decoy safe placed in a clothes closet or in a corner slightly hidden will probably do the trick.
They will think they hit the lottery and run with it. IMO
Bob
Lordmarcovan, WTCG, YogiBerraFan, Phoenin21, LindeDad, Coll3ctor, blue594, robkoll, Mike Dixon, BloodMan, Flakthat and others.
<< <i>The cheap $500 safe shown in the video is better than NO safe, and NO SAFE is theft-proof. . >>
Agree. The overwhelming majority of burglars and thieves around here are usually meth heads and their MO is to get in, grab what they can in 10 seconds ad run. Usually people around here end up only losing CDs, DVDs and electronics in residential burglaries. Most meth heads and thug burglars around here aren't smart enough to work together as a team to open a safe that big. The best protection is to not tell many people what you have.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
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<< <i>The purpose of locks is to keep the honest people honest.
The thieves will find a way to get into anything.
Ray >>
Exactly right!
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
CG
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I love the small safes they sell at home improvement stores that one or two guys could pick up and carry off.
Most of these small safes are designed to be bolted to the floor using lag bolts through the floor of the safe. >>
Mine is encased in concrete, you would need a jack hammer to knock it over.
Whats better is that if someone did mange to open it all of the really valuable stuff is at the bank.
I love wordplaying...
link to safe........
CERTIFICATION :
Underwriter Laboratories 30 minutes door & body attack certification.
PROTECTION TYPE :
The TRTL-30X6 safe have to sustain a 30 minutes clinical door & body attack to a larger range of tools including the Oxy-Fuel torches.
This test is conducted by two experienced technicians of the Underwriters Laboratories facilities of Chicago.
Both technicians can work at same time to do the test. This is one of the most if not the most difficult test to resist.
30 minutes door & body protection against Oxy-Fuel torches, common hand or picking tools, mechanical or portable electric tools, grinders, drills and pressure devices.
BODY CONSTRUCTION :
Made of 4-1/2" thick steel and special high resistance concrete.
DOOR CONSTRUCTION :
Made of 5-1/2" thick steel and special high resistance concrete.
BOLTWORK :
From 3 to 7 plated steel locking bolts (Ø1-3/8").
In order to delay any attacks, our ingenious boltwork design makes multiple attacks necessary. In fact, actually attacking and forcing one bolt will result in driving all the other locking bolts in the opposite direction and will make further attacks even harder.
TRTL-30X6 ULI SAFES ARE EQUIPPED WITH :
Highly efficient bolt detent system that keeps the bolts retracted when the door is opened and never fails to engage them automatically when the door is closed.
Superior quality double relocker.
Drill resistive hard plate.
Stainless steel push plates.
STANDARD LOCK :
One ( 1 ) Group 1 S&G 8550 3-Wheel combination lock with spy-proof dial.
JD
Death and Taxes" ~~ Ben Franklin
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/mint-sets/1945-mint-set/publishedset/21067
Knutson's 45' Set 2009 Winner
<< <i>Here is my home safe, an MGM TRTL-30X6 ULI safe. I use these with many of my banks with great success (although even some other banks often won't pay for these, the price is through the roof; you gotta' pay for quality though!). It basically takes Danny Ocean's crew to bust these babies open. These differ from the nice TL 15 and 30s in that Oxy-Fuel torches are used to try to get 'em open, which explains the huge price jump between these and traditional TL 30 safes that are just tool resistant.
link to safe........
CERTIFICATION :
Underwriter Laboratories 30 minutes door & body attack certification.
PROTECTION TYPE :
The TRTL-30X6 safe have to sustain a 30 minutes clinical door & body attack to a larger range of tools including the Oxy-Fuel torches.
This test is conducted by two experienced technicians of the Underwriters Laboratories facilities of Chicago.
Both technicians can work at same time to do the test. This is one of the most if not the most difficult test to resist.
30 minutes door & body protection against Oxy-Fuel torches, common hand or picking tools, mechanical or portable electric tools, grinders, drills and pressure devices.
BODY CONSTRUCTION :
Made of 4-1/2" thick steel and special high resistance concrete.
DOOR CONSTRUCTION :
Made of 5-1/2" thick steel and special high resistance concrete.
BOLTWORK :
From 3 to 7 plated steel locking bolts (Ø1-3/8").
In order to delay any attacks, our ingenious boltwork design makes multiple attacks necessary. In fact, actually attacking and forcing one bolt will result in driving all the other locking bolts in the opposite direction and will make further attacks even harder.
TRTL-30X6 ULI SAFES ARE EQUIPPED WITH :
Highly efficient bolt detent system that keeps the bolts retracted when the door is opened and never fails to engage them automatically when the door is closed.
Superior quality double relocker.
Drill resistive hard plate.
Stainless steel push plates.
STANDARD LOCK :
One ( 1 ) Group 1 S&G 8550 3-Wheel combination lock with spy-proof dial. >>
This looks really good, how much do these start at and do they sell direct?
<< <i>This looks really good, how much do these start at and do they sell direct? >>
This site starts out with a 30x20x16 (inside dimensions) at CDN$8567.00.
<< <i>
<< <i>This looks really good, how much do these start at and do they sell direct? >>
This site starts out with a 30x20x16 (inside dimensions) at CDN$8567.00. >>
Yeah, if you're buying a safe through a distributor (retail) that price is about right, although that is their small one with the same rating. Keep in mind that shipping cost will be a lot of money too, as they have to be shipped via semi ground travel.
Mine is the next to larget, and I chose a few custom options (biometric fingerprint reader locks, custom color, etc.). Mine weighs a little under 10,000 lbs., and cost me quite less than the stated $17,000 plus shipping on the website (i buy them wholesale). A safe that size will run you at least $1,000 for shipping, so don't forget that fact.
<< <i>Yeah, if you're buying a safe through a distributor (retail) that price is about right... >>
I'm sure with something like this, there are a number of factors which will affect the price as delivered to your door, but you've got to have a number to start with (at least, another poster did) and that was the first place I found one.
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah, if you're buying a safe through a distributor (retail) that price is about right... >>
I'm sure with something like this, there are a number of factors which will affect the price as delivered to your door, but you've got to have a number to start with (at least, another poster did) and that was the first place I found one.
no, i'm certainly not faulting you. you provided a good reference point; most people will have to buy these retail or at least through a banking equipment dealer if they have a contact. this will lower the price somewhat, but your link and price is certainly a good price give folks an idea.
<< <i>no, i'm certainly not faulting you. >>
Oh, no- no offense taken.
Somebody asked about prices, which got me to wondering (and then got me to Google). And by then, I figured if there were two people who were curious, there were probably more, so I might as well post a link.
<< <i>With high-res photos to enjoy your coins, there really is no reason to keep stuff at home. >>
Then what's the point of collecting? Might as well just look at other people's pics.
<< <i>Interesting, the fact that its a marketing video for a safe company made it lose a little credibility for me, but I don't doubt at all that its accurate in its portrayal of what two guys could do with pry bars and a safe in the middle of a room.
I would guess that with buying a safe its like anything else, you get what you pay for. If you really want to protect your stuff well you need to pony up.
Side note... I love the small safes they sell at home improvement stores that one or two guys could pick up and carry off.
I agree. A couple of points on the video. How would they have removed the probable half inch bolt(s) anchoring the safe to the floor. And if they couldn't remove them, what are the chances they would have space to achieve that kind of leverage if it were in say a closet.
What I'd really like to see is a test of the "good" safes. Every dealer I've spoken too talks about the UL rating and Burgulary testing done on quality safes (read AMSEC) but when pressed for details I've gotten various answers of their testing methods. One guy said a couple of people go at it for 90 minutes to simulate a common robbery situation. Another guy said they use drills or dremels, etc. Yet truth be told I donn't think I want a "how-to" video of opening my safe on YouTube
<< <i>What would also be good is a safe that shoots out a nerve gas that stuns anyone tampering with the safe. So when you get back to your shop or whatever there's an intruder flopping around like a mackeral out of the water .
Some of the safes pre 1940's did have gas placed in likely points of tampering or drilling. Opening some of the older locked (when the combo's been forgetten) safes needs to be done by someone familar with the various makes and models.
Keeping a low profile sounds like the best defense. Nothing pis...s me off more than getting packages from dealers with the word coin on the return label.
I have a firesafe, but it is only for legal documents and duplicates of my ancestors family photos etc... I always leave it unlocked for the reason that a thief can rummage quickly through and see there is nothing of value. No stress over it being locked.
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>ttt >>
It's too bad they took down the video linked in the first post. But I guess the bad guys don't need to see what was accomplished by the two goons. I've made recommendations to many people considering a safe that I won't post here other than to say: Any safe needs to be protected by firearms and if you do get a safe use a TL-15 or TL-30. If you don't have a safe (choosing instead to use safe depost boxes as I do), that doesn't mean you're safe unless all the bad guys know you don't have a safe so protect yourself. If you don't believe in firearms, at least keep that to yourself. Don't advertise it. --Jerry
The decoy is a great idea, but it would work better if it has coins (common change or maybe some Canadian or other foreign coins that are common) and maybe some fake jewelry (perfect place for a $10 "Rolex") so the theif thinks they are getting something.
I'm not trying to scare anyone, but I see too many home invasions on the news to think that it can't happen to me so I try to be prepared.
<< <i> A couple of points on the video. How would they have removed the probable half inch bolt(s) anchoring the safe to the floor. And if they couldn't remove them, what are the chances they would have space to achieve that kind of leverage if it were in say a closet. What I'd really like to see is a test of the "good" safes. >>
1. The would have pried it off the floor with a crowbar, that might buy you 30 seconds.
2. Taking down the sheetrock walls of a closet, another 30 seconds.
3. How long does it take to get into a real safe? TL-15 means 15 minutes with tools. TL-30 means 30 minutes.
--Jerry