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Merc FB question

ksboyksboy Posts: 216
in U.S. Coin Forum
what am i looking for and how good should they be....maybe someone with a photo comparison.....thanks guys

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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    this 27s has a great strike for the issue ... but not quite FB
    image

    this 29s is PCGS certified as FB, but the picture makes it tough to tell ... and it's close in hand, but they got it right IMO
    image

    here's a fairly well hammered 39d with FB for comparison
    image


    fully raised diagonals, fully raised and split centers ... those are the pick up points

    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
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    fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Smoe people expect them to look like two loaves of bread side by side (like pursuitofliberty' 39). The grading companies are not as strict (see pursuitofliberty's 29)

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

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    ksboyksboy Posts: 216
    The most desirable issues are those with Full Split Bands on the reverse, which means all of the bands that hold the fasces together on the reverse must be clearly and completely separated. While much attention is focused on the central bands, the bands on the ends of the fasces must be separated, as well.Text

    Did a little more research and found this along with the pics that were provided this was a great help in learning thanks
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    ChuckCChuckC Posts: 1,600
    Todd, why don't you go ahead and send me those mercs for a closer look to see if they are FB image
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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hey fc ... hope all is well ... image


    ks ...

    purists will tell you that a FB must be fully split and rounded (all bands - diagonals, top, bottom and center) ... as fc described ... like two loaves of bread, side by side ...

    I tend to be in that group when paying any real premiums, and certainly, I would like all my coins to be fully struck



    The real world of grading is a little more lax. Fully split seems to be enough.



    My suggestion if you're going to pay a healthy premium from non FB to FB, is hold out for Fully Split and Rounded Bands




    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
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    JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
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    fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Some reflection makes this one look like a just miss, but it is all there.

    image

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>this 27s has a great strike for the issue ... but not quite FB
    image

    this 29s is PCGS certified as FB, but the picture makes it tough to tell ... and it's close in hand, but they got it right IMO
    image
    >>



    This post perfectly illustrates why if I were to collect Mercs I'd avoid the FB coins like the plague and concentrate on the nicest coins I could find without the price premium. Who the heck would pay [tens of or hundreds of or even just] thousands of dollars extra for the difference in strike between coin one and coin two?
    Early Dollar Set
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    fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>this 27s has a great strike for the issue ... but not quite FB
    image

    this 29s is PCGS certified as FB, but the picture makes it tough to tell ... and it's close in hand, but they got it right IMO
    image
    >>



    This post perfectly illustrates why if I were to collect Mercs I'd avoid the FB coins like the plague and concentrate on the nicest coins I could find without the price premium. Who the heck would pay [tens of or hundreds of or even just] thousands of dollars extra for the difference in strike between coin one and coin two? >>




    Smoe people buy points... That is why my set is number 8. I buy the best coins I can. Some FB some Not and some coins that would get into higher grade holders if sent back in. An example would be my 1919-S (from fairlaneman) is an awesome no band coin.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks TDN ... I agree. image

    I also agree with fc about point chasers in the registry. image


    Just so you understand, I could care less as long as it has a good strike and I'm not paying an arm and a leg.

    The better the strike and surfaces (and skin and color), the more desirable to me.


    I actually bought the 29s because of the obverse ... not the bands

    image


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That 29-S has it all ... except the FB on the label and the associated jump in price. Well done!
    Early Dollar Set
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    FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here are a couple of reverses of dimes I now own. Which one got the FB designation? One is a 18P and the other is a 37P. You just might be able to tell which is which if you collect mercury dimes.

    image
    image

    In reguard to the FB designation. If you are a modest collector like myself you need to pick and choose when buying FB coins or non FB coins. I believe some of the issues should be FB if you are building a complete set. Others should be purchased for their strike, luster and appeal and not for the last 1% of the coin one the reverse. This 18D is a good example of forgetting about the last 1%. $500 to $700 bucks in this condition and grade. $5000 to $10000 if it had the 1%

    image

    Last but not least. Todd, with his 27S, and Tony, with his 19S, have great non FB coins.

    Cheers.
    Ken
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    lope208lope208 Posts: 1,960 ✭


    << <i>image >>



    Beautiful coin!
    Successful BST transactions:
    commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
    -------------------------
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great Thread KSBOY! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Todd, excellent instructional post... this is what makes the forum great. Learning tools such as you posted help so many people. One can still buy what one likes/can afford... but the learning process helps everyone. Cheers, RickO
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The following 19-D in a MS64FB holder was on a dealers site a month ago and I saved the image.

    image

    image

    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Broadstruck was that 19D listed as a Full Band coin? If so the coin is a perfect example of how the 1% strike can turn a $600 dollar coin into probably $2500 or more for the example shown. By the picture the coin is not FB. Whitlow Site?

    EDIT: Opps I was way off on the price. The PCGS site has it at $6750 in Full Band.

    Ken
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fairlaneman, The coin was in a PCGS MS64FB Blue Holder on Larry Whitlow's site for $6495 about 4-6 weeks ago.

    I saved it as I fell out of my seat when I saw this! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It looks like a continuous split ... but why oh why spend the extra $$?

    Go get a beautiful example that didn't get the designation, put away the magnifying glass and enjoy the coin for what it is...
    Early Dollar Set
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    FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In defense of the coin and the split it looks like the photo was taken at a little angle. Thats all it takes to make some details disappear on a merc that has been photographed. Still that split is very weak IMO. Maybe the graders look at the strong strike at the edges and said this just has to be a full band coin. Man would I love a gift like that if I was the submitter.

    Personally I think my 18P that is shown above has a much better split and it is a no band coin. Its downfall looks to be a weaker right edge which is not defined as well as the 19D.

    Ken
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    but why oh why spend the extra $$?Go get a beautiful example that didn't get the designation, put away the magnifying glass and enjoy the coin for what it is...

    tradedollarnut image

    The 18-D below is FSB but PCGS I guess felt the bands where not rounded enough... yet this coin has more of a split then some FB designated coins.

    There are many FB Mercury Dimes and FH SLQ's in TPG holder that really are not up to snuff.

    Unless you know what your doing, if your just buying based on the TPG holder slab insert IMHO many a times your likely to take a bath!

    image
    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    glad to see this thread had legs today ...

    first, Broadstruck, that is a huge 18d! Great strike on that issue!!

    ricko ... thanks for the compliment ... was just trying to help the OP. image

    TDN ... thanks for the comments and the PM.

    Ken, glad to see your comments here as well. Good to see you. image
    For those of you that don't know ... Ken has probably forgot more about this series than most people know.

    As far as the 19d that was for sale ... well, that is one nice looking 64, with a huge strike for the issue. FB?? Probably not to the purist, although anyone who knows the series well will probably agree that is one hammered coin for the issue.



    I really wanted to respond tonight with a look back at TDN's and Ken's comments.

    I collect SLQ's as well (another "designated" coin), and in my opinion far too much emphasis is placed on the FB and FH designations for these series.

    I think part of what makes a coin attractive for the grade is a strong to full strike. But as Ken eluded ... is the last 1% worth the premiums of 100, 200, as much as 3000%??

    And what if that's the part of the grade that's wrong? I'm sure Ken and fc can both tell of seen and known examples of FB designated coins that are NOT FB. I know I can.

    To me, I'll take a full (or superior) strike over a wash-out anyday ... but only to a reasonable premium.

    As TDN surmised, with my little bits thrown in for fun ...

    often times it is better to get a beautiful (and PREMIUM) example that didn't (QUITE) get the designation, put away the magnifying glass and enjoy the coin for what it is


    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
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    LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭
    a lovely thread....


    more fishlures for the hepkitty....
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
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    ksboyksboy Posts: 216
    To everyone that has responded I want to say thank you tremendously. The pics and knowledge that is evident here will be put to great use not only by me but I am sure by alot of the other New collectors (I dont like the YN name...lol). This has helped me to know that the few nicer examples i have are right on the edge and i should post some pics when i figure out how to take such nice ones but keep the information flowing and hopefully we can continue to spread the information that is locked away in some of your noggins on to the next generations of collectors.
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    JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>often times it is better to get a beautiful (and PREMIUM) example that didn't (QUITE) get the designation, put away the magnifying glass and enjoy the coin for what it is >>



    So true

    image
    image
    image
    image
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
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    yellowjacketyellowjacket Posts: 1,809 ✭
    If I were to pay 6K for a FB Merc, I would wait for better defined bands than the Whitlow coin. This thread is right on point about what to look for if you choose to pursue Full Bands Mercury Dimes. Some well-made comments. (I personally like the "two loaves.")

    Thanks,
    Garrow
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    FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Todd I am red faced. Thanks much for the compliment.

    As you scroll through the posters that have posted to this thread I would say almost everyone of them is a mercury dime fan and each one certainly has a huge amount of knowledge about the series. The biggest asset the posters have is that they will freely dispense their knowledge when a newer collector asks a question. To me this is ( dispensing knowledge ) the heart of this forum and the posters that call the forum home.

    Only one poster is not a mercury dime fan. I think if we keep working on him and convincing him that a dime is as big as a dollar he will come around eventually. What ya say TDN....image

    Nice little mercury dime thread.

    Ken
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    KSBOY, Make sure that before you make your move on any Mercury Dime that you buy the BOOK. I can 111% Highly Recommend David W. Lange Book on the Winged Liberty series (along with his Lincoln Cent, and Buffalo Bison Nickles) There is a wealth of information, history, etc. and this will be a book that will be a constant reference.

    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭
    I collect FSB Mercs myself.

    It's been my experience that if you have the center bands fully split with a clear line of demarcation between the two, then the end bands will always be there as well, excepting for post mint damage.

    Broadstruck's '18-D is a nice coin but is nowhere near being FSB.

    Some really nice pictures in this thread, BTW.

    Somehow I've shifted my interests to the Baldies, (Lucy's fault) and FSB Mercs. I've got several MS67-68s that aren't FSB and to me, it's just not the same. Gorgeous coins, no doubt, but I really want everything in FSB.

    I believe that PCGS will give the designation down to circulated examples, so there's still a chance to pick up a 16-D in FSB without taking out a loan.

    Anybody ever hear of a '42/1 in FSB? They must exist, I'd think, though I've never seen one.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
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    fcfc Posts: 12,789 ✭✭✭
    hey fc ... hope all is well ...

    same goes for you!

    you know the usual.. how much money should i blow on a hobby
    and the concern it raises!
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Deadhorse, I've seen both 42/41 P and D overdates in as low as PCGS AU58FB and also the 1916-D.
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>Deadhorse, I've seen both 42/41 P and D overdates in as low as PCGS AU58FB and also the 1916-D. >>



    Thanks, I figured they must exist, but I've never seen one anywhere, including big shows.

    I guess that will be my focus since I replaced the 45-P in a PCGS MS 65 FSB slab that I lost........yes, I lost it......image
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
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    CocoinutCocoinut Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow! A Merc thread! It's good to see some of the oldtimers still around and spreading their knowledge.

    I haven't done anything with my Mercs in 3 years, and haven't checked the rankings in a looong time. I've slipped a few notches, down to 16th, but I knew from the beginning that I'd never have one of the top sets, because I thought FB's were overrated and, in many cases, overpriced. Nearly all of my 1934-45 short set is FB, but when it came to the earlier dates, many of the coins are non-FB, and I have to admit that I enjoy them every bit as much as the FB's.

    Next year I'll have the mortgage paid off, so perhaps I'll get around to picking up a '21-P. I don't know about the '16-D, though. It's gotten a lot more expensive since I started the set back in 2001, and there are many other coins that would provide greater satisfaction for that kind of money.

    Welcome to all of the new Merc fans! It's a fun and, with just a few exceptions, a very "doable" set if you're not a stickler for full bands.

    Jim
    Countdown to completion of my Mercury Set: 2 coins. My growing Lincoln Set: Finally completed!
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow! A Merc thread!

    Yeah... I felt it was worth a image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭
    FWIW, about a year ago my fav B&M shop owner told me that the next "phase" coming down the road would be a resurgence in Merc dimes collecting.

    I hope he was right.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the next "phase" coming down the road would be a resurgence in Merc dimes collecting.

    That would be great as just for me they are very sentimental as when I view one in hand it just transports me back 30+ years...

    when I purchased my first one.image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Had to throw a colorful one in here for Dizz.
    image
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
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    GemineyeGemineye Posts: 5,374 ✭
    A bump for a classic coin.....
    ......Larry........image

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