I have my first buyer dispute **UPDATE, I LOST** UPON FURTHER REVIEW....I WON :)

lawnmowerman

I sold 3 cards to an ebay buyer on Jan 7th. I shipped them the same day with dc. I have the receipt as well.

The buyer contacted me last week stating he did not receive them yet. He filed a paypal dispute the other day. I have provided paypal with the dc number and they are now reviewing the case.

I checked the dc number and it says that the package made it to the Phoenix po on Jan 8th but no info after that. So by the looks of it he did not get them or the po worker forgot to scan the package and the buyer actually has them. I don't know?

Am I going to get hosed out of $250.00? The buyer did not take insurance. I really don't know what else I could have done short of delivering them myself.

Is having a dc number all I need to have the outcome decided in my favor?

Leiascards

Well if it was 250 dollars you are required to use Signature confirmation. However if it does not show as delivered you are screwed.

BassPro77

I think the Post Offices are screwing up. i Bought a card on ebay Dec 7th, and 8th, and i finaly got them both last week. when I looked at the post mark it said 8th and 10th of Dec. morale of the story it took over a month to get here. I never filed a claim. the sellers asured me they were sent and I just plyed the waiting game. totally wasn't there fault.

onefasttalon

Ya Matt... I've had a few of the same experiences that BassPro77 has had. Delivery this past Dec/Jan has had it's share of really weird SLOW times.
If your DC doesn't show an actual DELIVERY, you might be screwed... but the good news is, Paypal doesn't exactly 'get on' their disputes in a timely fashion.
That being said, you'll probably have at LEAST another week to allow that package to get to where it's suppose to be, and hopefully the DC will be
updated on-line and help resolve this issue.

Best of luck man.

jimq112

Matt if it was $250 and you didn't use signature confirmation you're going to lose for sure. Paypal requires it, you didn't use it, they'll side with the buyer every time.

Kind of too late now but the insurance protects the seller more than the buyer. Always worth the couple bucks to protect yourself when dealing with an ebayer you don't know.

With delivery confirmation we're nationally between 97.5 and 98.5% scanned delivered. I see labels that are smeared and can't be read by the scanner, occasional invalid numbers even after typing them in by hand, and I see carrier mistakes. All 3 combine to make the 1.5 -2.5%. USPS is on us to do better. It wouldn't have helped you other than letting you know you were scammed.

bhl2359

Try to get the phone number of the post office it's at and give them a call. I believe that yoyu can get the number on usps.com

thedutymon

Good day Matt,
Well I am in the same boat as you. I have had delivery problems with USPS in Dec/Jan as well. One Dic%&khead sends me an e-mail two weeks after I sent card, I sent email back that it had been only a couple of weeks, wait. He does, a couple of days, then files a dispute and gets nasty. So in the interest of making it go away I send the guy his money back, this time with delivery confirmation. The problem with this is, I know the guy got the card by now, (If not it would have been back to me by now), but I can't prove it (No Del. Conf.) So as to not take the strike and the Neg Feedback, I give him his money and he gets the card.
Second, same thing, sent card on/or about Dec 23rd, still hasn't shown up, good customer and a PSA Registered Set member, so I know he isn't BS'ng around, or I would see the card in his set, so I am going to refund as well. So where did this card disappear to? USPS used to be extremely reliable for me......But lately !!!!!

Neil

Griffins

The post office seems to be incredibly slow right now. Give it another week.

storm888

IF the circumstance is exactly as Matt described, the CRIMINAL
buyer will prevail in the PP dispute/claim.

When using PP, insurance is designed SOLELY to protect the
seller. You can get away w/o it for a long time; eventually, you
will get burned.

IF a buyer cannot be conned into paying for the insurance, the
seller must buy it; or, the seller must be wiling to take the loss.

TheMcgwireMuseum

Storm, a little harsh on calling him a criminal as of now, as it looks like he probably hasn't received the package yet. Now, if he does receive it and notices there isnt signature confirmation and still follows through on the claim,you bet hes a criminal, among other things.

Matt, I would send him a polite email (if you already havent) letting him know that it was indeed shipped on date x, and that it should arrive there shortly. Hopefully he's the type of person that just genuinely wants the cards he paid for, and wont scam you when/if he finds out he has the chance.

ripkenintheminors

It doesn't look good for you.

I am at the point where I make it clear in the shipping details that insurance is required in the shipping fees. Mail delivery has been nothing short of horrible recently. I've had multiple items taking 2+ weeks, even items that have been sent via Priority Mail. With all of that being said, it's a good idea to have the insurance.

larryallen73

Sorry Matt but doesn't sound like a great fact pattern. HOPEFULLY the package will turn up.

I "self-insure" up to $100 or so and then buy postal insurance above that when I am seller.

SUCKS to learn a lesson but I think it's a $250 lesson for you (and us).

Bummer.

tombo

Matt, there must be some problem with the Phoenix post office. I had insured a $310 card back on 7/31/07 that arrived in Phoenix on 8/2, but apparently was never seen again. I eventually refunded the buyer through paypal and filed a complaint with the USPS. I provided the insurance receipt, the auction ended page, an SMR page to verify reasonable market value and a letter from the buyer stating that they did not receive the article. I would get that before doing a refund. It took about 3 months for my refund because my amount exceeded $300. Normally, anything under $300 should take about 6 weeks.

Just out of curiosity, who was the buyer?

lawnmowerman

<< <i>Matt, there must be some problem with the Phoenix post office. I had insured a $310 card back on 7/31/07 that arrived in Phoenix on 8/2, but apparently was never seen again. I eventually refunded the buyer through paypal and filed a complaint with the USPS. I provided the insurance receipt, the auction ended page, an SMR page to verify reasonable market value and a letter from the buyer stating that they did not receive the article. I would get that before doing a refund. It took about 3 months for my refund because my amount exceeded $300. Normally, anything under $300 should take about 6 weeks.

Just out of curiosity, who was the buyer? >>



Thanks for the info!

The buyer is ebay id: abejam11. His name is Mark Diedrick in Prescott AZ

tombo

Well, that's a totally different ebayer than mine. Just try and get that letter from the buyer before you do a refund.

Maybe the main Phoenix post office has a collector in its midst.

storm888

"Storm, a little harsh on calling him a criminal as of now, ..."

////////////////////////////////////////

Yup.

When I speak, you are always hearing the jaded-voice of experience.

THOUSANDS of buys by me. ONE loss due to mis-delivery.

THOUSANDS of sales by me. DOZENS of "mis-delivered/lost" items.

EBAY sellers, GOOD.

EBAY buyers, BAD.

stevek

That's correct about the "signature confirmation" which of course is different than "delivery confirmation"

If the item is $250.00 even or more paid through PayPal, then it has to be "signature confirmation" - if it's $249.99 or less then "signature confirmation" is not required.

EagleEyeKid

Matt, you're going to lose. You need signature confirmation for $250 and above. I think lately, I've been running into a lot of the same thing whereas DC will say " the package is being processed at so and so facility in so and so city" and that's it. It never says it's been delivered, but luckily some has left me feedback saying they got it etc. I've been wondering that since it never said "delivered" even though they got it, buyers can now look into it and use that as a loophole because the carriers don't scan them upon delivery.

Oh, and I've gone back to old school for this reason. I have 2 seller's account now. One that accepts paypal (cheap items $1 - $25), and the other one just accepts checks and money orders (on expensive items $30 and higher). So far the one that accepts checks and money orders, I haven't seen a big difference in sales dropping.

WinPitcher

Today i shipped a 250.00 order to a new buyer. This buyer seems ok, but for 3.00 or 4.00 I was able to get 250.00 worth of insurance which requires the signature.


Matt I hope it works out for you.

Email the guy and tell him that his PO claims they delivered it, make no mention of the signature required BS, maybe he will back down if he did in fact get it. Unless of course he knows the system and is working it.


Sorry this is happening to you.

Steve

lawnmowerman

<< <i>That's correct about the "signature confirmation" which of course is different than "delivery confirmation"

If the item is $250.00 even or more paid through PayPal, then it has to be "signature confirmation" - if it's $249.99 or less then "signature confirmation" is not required. >>



Oh, in that case, the actual sale was $244.00 and some change. I rounded up before. So I guess I have some hope?

stevek

Unless I missed it, I don't think it was mentioned about "confirmed" or "unconfirmed" addresses - if shipped to an "unconfirmed" address, and the buyer claims they didn't get it, you're screwed by PayPal no matter what you do. Naturally there would be recourse in Small Claims court, but not with King PayPal.

WinPitcher

Anyone else think Matt's buyer was a lil quick to notify Paypal? It is barley 3 weeks since the auction ended at this time and the guy did it last week?

Steve

stevek

Also - Anything "expensive" I always ship by UPS.

storm888

"Oh, in that case, the actual sale was $244.00 and some change. I rounded up before. So I guess I have some hope? "

///////////////////////

Yup.

You're off the hook on the signature.

BUT, online-delivery proof is STILL required.

stevek

<< <i>

<< <i>That's correct about the "signature confirmation" which of course is different than "delivery confirmation"

If the item is $250.00 even or more paid through PayPal, then it has to be "signature confirmation" - if it's $249.99 or less then "signature confirmation" is not required. >>



Oh, in that case, the actual sale was $244.00 and some change. I rounded up before. So I guess I have some hope? >>



Yes, that's good - I thought you might have rounded up that figure to $250.

Good luck with this Matt!



-

lawnmowerman

Thanks guys. Here are the auction links if anyone cares to see:

link

link

link

The buyer's address is also confirmed.

EagleEyeKid

Thanks guys. Here are the auction links if anyone cares to see:

I remember those

Good luck bud. Like Steve said earlier, I think you may
have run into a buyer who knows the system since he notified
Paypal rather quickly. If the carrier didn't scan the DC; not much
you can do.

lawnmowerman

<< <i>Thanks guys. Here are the auction links if anyone cares to see:

I remember those

Good luck bud. Like Steve said earlier, I think you may
have run into a buyer who knows the system since he notified
Paypal rather quickly. If the carrier didn't scan the DC; not much
you can do. >>



That's what I am afraid of.

I may just close my checking account. Screw 'em. I'm not gonna be ripped off by some scammer or pay for postal worker's incompetence

WinPitcher

Matt

I could be wrong and JIM the mailman can correct me but I am under the impression that the mail carriers do not scan the item at the door but that they scan all of the items that require it as they sort them for the day. Some may do it at the door, my guy only scans at the door if a signature is required, those items that just get a del confirmation he does at the station for that days items.

Steve

storm888

My carriers scan the things when they put them in my boxes.

The online info then shows delivery at my ZIP. Which ZIP is not
the ZIP of the various POs.

lawnmowerman

Thanks Steve. I was already in contact with the usps and opened two investigations at the Phoenix po, where the card went from me and the Prescott po, where the card was supposed to go from Phoenix. It does not show as delivered to the Prescott facility. Maybe the buyer is being honest.

jimq112

Steve we're supposed to scan them at the mailbox so the the time is accurate. Also the postmasters really frown on doing that early in case something goes wrong. In my climate I never know which mailboxes got hit by cars or plows the nite before!

jimq112

Matt if it was first class or priority the clerks are supposed to scan as arrived in the morning, if it was parcel post they don't scan it. If it was first class ask the PM at the Prescott office if they scan all the arriving 1st class and priority as arrived. If they do then it's possibly lost at the DC in Phoenix. If that's the case then your buyer would be telling the truth.

ebayaddict

You should have charged for and used insurance....thats your responsibility to get it there safely, not his concern. My guess is you will lose.

Darin

Did lawnmowerman win yet?

stown

[nelson voice]

HA-HA!

[/nelson voice]

CDsNuts

The odds that the mail carrier didn't scan the package AND the buyer is a scam artist are fairly slim. I had a PSA box that was sitting at a USPS shipping unit for almost 3 weeks before it finally got to my PO and eventually my house. That's probably what happened here. Tell the guy to give it some time. You obviously sent the package and the USPS is dragging its feet. Nothing you can do about it. Paypal will tell him to wait a couple weeks I suspect.

Lee

Estil

This is all the more reason UPS Ground is the way to go for more expensive items like this one. You'd be fully insured for the first $100 plus you get DC and online package tracking for free. And where I'm from, most of the eastern half of the US would get my package in two days, not three.

WinPitcher

I just spoke to my guy and what i thought (about him scanning at the PO) was wrong, he told me he scans any item at the time of delivery. He parks his truck, and for the houses that he does at a time he will scan them and then deliver them. So in ecsence he does it at the point of delivery. I just never saw him scan them when i met him at the door. By the way he was also one of my catchers. So I never have postal problems.

Steve

WinPitcher

Estil the only problem I have with UPS is how they at times just leave packages at the door. 1 day I came home to a 500.00 box full of 55 Topps cards left in a puddle at my door. Luckily the cards were not ruined.

Your cards will go out tomorrow.

Steve

envoy98

If you print the labels from paypal (which I do on every single transaction now) you get DC for free or .18 cents plus the dc# is stored right in the paypal transaction now AND, if you go to Order Details on ebay, you'll even see when the label was printed and if it was delivered. Another thing you can do is with PayPal multi-package shipping, you can have the post office scan that sheet (one barcode) and it will mark all of your packages as accepted by the USPS.

I have had a couple items not scanned by the PO before. GUys have left me feedback for items and I check delivery status and it just says the item was accepted at such and such location on date/time. Luckily I've never been screwed by that one before.

rube26105

get hi to go to the po and see if they can find out anything, hes closer to it than you are,his stuffs got to be inbetween there and him somewhere, ive had thing vanish and reappear before, i dont know where stuff goes, it just vanishes and pops back out a few weeks later, ive had em drop stuff under a shelf or counter before and send it out weeks afterwards

lawnmowerman

I just called my bank. I told them the situation and they said I could put a stop payment on the electronic tranfer before it happens. It would be good for 6 months.

It would cost me $36.00 but that's alot better than $244.00.

Paypal can scratch my nuts.

RipublicaninMass

registered from PSA sent on 1/23 still not here, maybe I Pissed off the postman?

rube26105

Paypal can scratch my nuts
i like it -haaaaaaaaaaa

storm888

"Another thing you can do is with PayPal multi-package shipping, you can have the post office scan that sheet (one barcode) and it will mark all of your packages as accepted by the USPS. "

////////////////////////////////

MANY clerks refuse to scan the PP DC on acceptance.
It is scanned on delivery.

They are happy to scan the one you pay for at the USPS,
but have evidently been told that they "do not" have to
scan the cheapie from PP.

gameusedhoop

Only had one problem with the PO and DC. I had a package scanned in at my PO, never scanned out for delivery or delivered. I talked to carrier supervisor and he said give him a day or two to check around. I go back a couple days later and get the song and dance saying that the scanners are used by many people, even though only one person should be logged in at the time. He said he couldn't find the package and no one "knows" anything about it. Long story short, he pays me $50 IN CASH, no paper work was filled out etc.. I had my $$ back. It seems as though he knew what happened and was covering for someone. I know it wasn't my carrier, as I am very friendly with him and he knows what is coming and going from here, and the Xmas gift can't hurt.

jradke4

just a few notes from a buyers side. the buyer he was really jumping the gun with filling a complaint, i wait 3 weeks post-paypal payment before i email seller. if no response from seller after a week they get another email saying i will have to file a complaint.

as for shipping UPS for expensive stuff...well i have nearly 100% of my stuff to my PO box. why...well the mrs and i both work in chicago and are gone from 6:30 to 6:30 M-F...we also have road side (rural) collection so anyone can help themselves to the mail...the nearest UPS collection center that i have to go to is 45 mins each way. hence its safer and more convient for me to have stuff go to my PO. UPS cant ship to PO boxes.

as for droping PayPal on highend cards and not seeing any drop in sales...ask the guy that just sold a Jim Thorpe Jersey/Auto card for around $5000. that sounds good until you know that the last one sold for over $12,000. seller would only take postal MO or MO. which to me screams scam, though maybe not.

when i sell, which i dont do much, but do for some friends...i always send with DC at minimum and insurance for all high price items. on higher end items i require insurance. others its optional.

yes the mail can be late. i had the same thing happen to me with an item postmarked around thanksgiving and not showing up til new years. seller said he had shipped, since i dealt with him many times i let it slide longer than normal. but it did show up.

diamondman

<< <i>I just called my bank. I told them the situation and they said I could put a stop payment on the electronic tranfer before it happens. It would be good for 6 months.

It would cost me $36.00 but that's alot better than $244.00.

Paypal can scratch my nuts. >>



Matt, personally I think it is the USPS screw up had an item take 24 days to go 350 miles, the seller was patient and finally received the item, and left positive feedback, my policy is anything over 100.00 insurance is required and I make the buyer pay for it. in a dispute under 250 if you can show a Dc number with postal delivery confirmation you will win the dispute had 1 buyer try saying he didn't receive the item but the DC showed it was delivered of course Paypal froze my money for about 2 weeks and then gave it back.

On another note if the post office lost the item and shows it was not delivered the buyer wins the dispute, it is a tuff bullet to bite and lose 244.00, but look at the buyers point of view he is out 244.00. myself I would hate to lose 244.00 or even 10.00, but in this case if the item never shows up, I believe you owe the buyer 244.00 just my opinion and hopefully USPS will find your item and deliver it in the next week or so.

11235813

I posted about this before the holidays, but sellers should always use Signature Confirmation, not Delivery Confirmation, especially for expensive items.

All Delivery Confirmation ensures is that the mail carrier says that they delivered it and scanned it as such. It offers no proof of receipt by the buyer.

storm888

"All Delivery Confirmation ensures is that the mail carrier says that they delivered it and scanned it as such. It offers no proof of receipt by the buyer. "

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

It covers sellers with PayPal, for items under $250.00.