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Dale Murphy, put him in the hall

dalemurphycollectordalemurphycollector Posts: 85
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
In a time when the good name of baseball is being 'drug' through the mud, baseball should showcase one of the truly good guys of baseball, Dale Murphy. Two homers shy of 400 and this was done in the deadball era, back to back MVP's all while playing for the braves pre-Bobby Cox. Character does count
Collector of Dale Murphy
Collector of OPC 1980-1985
«13

Comments

  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Dead ball era?


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • kylehess10kylehess10 Posts: 351


    << <i>Dead ball era?


    Steve >>



    Exactly what I was thinking. Wasn't dead-ball era like pre-1930??
    My Game Used Memorabilia Collection
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭
    Deadball era was pre Babe Ruth. Try telling Mike Schmidt he played in the deadball era. image
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • DavidPuddyDavidPuddy Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭
    I like Murphy for the hall...

    Back to Back MVP's

    7 Time All Star

    5 Gold Gloves

    4 Silver Sluggers

    Super Clean Pre Roid Era Star

    Put in Rice, Dawson, and Murphy, or none of them
    "The Sipe market is ridiculous right now"
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  • GootGoot Posts: 3,496
    I'd love for Murphy to go in the hall. If he would make it, that would also make Chipper a shoe in.
  • BobaFett72BobaFett72 Posts: 7,304
    Murph is my 2nd favorite player of all time, It would be awesome if he did get in, but im not holding my breath. I think with a few more productive seasons, Chipper has an excellent shot. he hasnt played a full injury free season since 2003 though.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    Ted Turner once said, "Murph saved the franchise."

    The guy was a HUGE draw in Atlanta, and TBS made him a
    star all over America.

    He had no scandals, that I can recall.

    No doubt he has HOF support.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭
    should have stuck around for 2 more homers - that was the magic number (back then)


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  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I can think of at least 35 players that are in that he belongs in before, most notably guys like Bill Mazeroski.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • rube26105rube26105 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭
    jim kaat had enuff gold gloves and mvps ,awards for his finger and toes, hes has to wait for senior ballot in 2009 l- id say the goose will get in this year,not sure about anybody else,be interesting to see what % mcgwire gets this year-id say less that last year
  • rube26105rube26105 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭
    image <-------DEAD BALLimage
  • IronmanfanIronmanfan Posts: 5,495 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>should have stuck around for 2 more homers - that was the magic number (back then) >>



    If 400 Home Runs were EVER the "magic number," Darrell Evans would have been in by now...
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  • TomGshotputTomGshotput Posts: 1,358
    Not much seperates Murphy from Lynn, who isn't in the Hall-of-Fame

    Definitely a much better choice than Rice or Dawson, but also definitely not a major transgression
    Tom
  • rube26105rube26105 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭
    <Kaat captured 16 Gold Glove Awards, establishing himself as one of the finest fielding pitchers of the era. He could hit, too, with 16 career home runs and 106 runs batted in.

    Kaat probably would have won a Cy Young Award in 1966, but that was the last year only one award was given for both leagues, and it was also the year the Los Angeles Dodgers’ Sandy Koufax was 27-9 with an ERA of 1.73. As consolation, Kaat was named The Sporting News pitcher of the year.

    Kaat finished his career with an earned run average of 3.45, with 180 complete games and 31 shutouts. He pitched in the World Series in 1965 as a starter with the Twins and then as a reliever with the St. Louis Cardinals in 1982. His 17 years between appearances is a record, and one of those statistics that prove there are too many statistics.

    Here are some pitchers with at least two things in common: Red Ruffing, Jim Palmer, Bob Gibson, Jim Bunning, Jim Hunter, Juan Marichal, Whitey Ford, Bob Gibson, Don Drysdale and Bob Lemon.

    First, they’re all members of the Hall of Fame. Second, Kaat had more wins than any of them. >

    how about jim katt, senator jim bunning sucked compared to him -16 consecutive gold gloves!!!!!!!! sen jim prob bought them a new wing or something, its all who ya know and who ya blow

    image
  • DrJDrJ Posts: 2,213
    Obviously you are a big Dale Murphy fan. While he had a very good career, I don't believe his is Hall of Fame caliber when compared to his peers of the time. He did a lot of nice things on the diamond, but at the end of the day not one of his final stattistical categories (Runs, HR, RBI, HITS, AVG) are HOF worthy. He really needed another 2 or 3 good years, as he fizzled out very quickly once he hit 35.

    J
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Back to Back MVP's (for really bad Braves Teams) >>



    Huh? The Braves won the NL West in '82 (89-73) and finished second in '83 (88-74). These were Murphy's MVP years. I agree that back to back MVPs is very special, but it's far from a lock to get a player in the HOF. Look at Roger Maris.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • mrbecker712mrbecker712 Posts: 525
    I agree (of course). Murph belongs because of how he was on AND off the field. A class act through and through.
    Atlanta Braves, Charlotte Hornets, Shawn Kemp, Dale Murphy, and Bobby Engram.
  • TomGshotputTomGshotput Posts: 1,358
    No way Kaat can be seen as worthy of being in the Hall-of-Fame when there are at least a couple pitchers better than him not in
    Tom
  • DrJDrJ Posts: 2,213


    << <i>I agree (of course). Murph belongs because of how he was on AND off the field. A class act through and through. >>



    No one is arguing with his off the field image. However the Hall of Fame is based on baseball accomplishments and not life accomplishments.

    J
  • jrinckjrinck Posts: 1,321 ✭✭
    Murphy got the job done, but to get into the hall, you have to have been flashy or highly popular, neither of which describes Murphy.

    Here's an example. When you were opening packs in the early-to-mid 80's, and you got a Dale Murphy card, were you excited? You probably put him in your album, but you probably didn't feature him too prominently. This describes me, at least. But when you got a Rose, Schmidt, Henderson, or Ryan, you were excited, and Dale Murphy was never on the same plastic sheet as those guys. That's the difference.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "I don't believe his is Hall of Fame caliber when compared to his peers of the time."

    ///////////////////////////////

    Voters WILL consider the "star-power" elements that he delivered to Atlanta.
    And, he was a major architect in developing the concept of "America's Team"
    via TBS.

    I saw him play MANY times; he was a GOD to the fans. His Chrstian stuff played
    very well to the older fans, too.

    The voters also may want to send a message that decent-behavior is MORE
    than its own reward.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • rube26105rube26105 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭
    <No way Kaat can be seen as worthy of being in the Hall-of-Fame when there are at least a couple pitchers better than him not in>

    i cant think of any that got golden glove 16 years in row,or 283 wins, if he just woud have stuck in there for 17 more wins, he prob figured 25 years was enuff throwing that ball!, tommy john did 26 and ryan 27 years,thats a long time to be throwning without falling apart

    several pitchers a whloe lot worse than him in there too,it s a popularity contest, look at the ones listed of wikipedia that are worse than him that are in, jim bunning?????haaa now thats funny, you can do that when you're a senator though,its all politics unfortunately
    image
    i think goose will get in ,dawson maybe , mcgwire, in 30 years or so when new sportswriters vote maybe he'll have a chance!

    we'll find out tues!!!!!! i cant wait,1 or2 will get 75%,goose almost had it last year
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "However the Hall of Fame is based on baseball accomplishments and not life accomplishments."

    //////////////////////////////////////

    That is what Pete Rose keeps saying.

    Bonds/Mc/Clem and a slew of others will
    be making the same argument over the
    next decade.

    BB needs a bath, right now. Murph in the HOF
    will help with that.


    image
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • migmanmigman Posts: 55
    Murphy had a very nice career, a couple MVPs, but not what I'd consider HoF material. I don't think baseball's steroid era should give previous era players any additional consideration.
  • TomGshotputTomGshotput Posts: 1,358


    << <i> cant think of any that got golden glove 16 years in row,or 283 wins >>



    As far as wins, Blyleven and John. As far as Gold Gloves, if his defense really made a difference, it would have prevented the other team from scoring runs and would be accounted for in his win total and ERA. But those are still less than Blyleven and John
    Tom
  • migmanmigman Posts: 55
    Gold gloves are simply a popularity vote and have no real relevance to a player at his position - case in point, Rafael Palmiero winning a gold glove at 1B when he played less than 30 games at the position.
  • jmbkb4jmbkb4 Posts: 2,963
    Who's Dale Murphy?
  • rube26105rube26105 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭
    tommy johns on there for 14th year-next year, last untill senior ballot-bert too-with 11th year ,they never get much of the vote- gwynn and cal slaughtered em all last year,id say bert and tommy will have to go senior ballot too-bert has 4 more wins and mo strikeouts,i never looked at tommys stats
  • rube26105rube26105 Posts: 10,225 ✭✭
    if i was bert/tommy.and katt i would tryed to stick it out till that automatic 300 gets you in,280s is so close,but still so far away to get overlookedimage
  • dalemurphycollectordalemurphycollector Posts: 85
    Guys and gals, good discussion, apparently I misquoted the dead ball era, however the 80's really didn't favor the long ball hitters. I think that I can sum up what everone is saying "PUT HIM IN THE HALL!" Well at least that sums up what I am saying
    Collector of Dale Murphy
    Collector of OPC 1980-1985
  • ernie11ernie11 Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I saw him play MANY times; he was a GOD to the fans. His Chrstian stuff played
    very well to the older fans, too.

    The voters also may want to send a message that decent-behavior is MORE
    than its own reward. >>



    If being a good guy is in and of itself the prerequisite to being in the HOF now, then we'd have to yank Ty Cobb out of the HOF, along with Cap Anson.
  • mrbecker712mrbecker712 Posts: 525


    << <i>

    << <i>I agree (of course). Murph belongs because of how he was on AND off the field. A class act through and through. >>



    No one is arguing with his off the field image. However the Hall of Fame is based on baseball accomplishments and not life accomplishments.

    J >>



    2 MVPs, 7 AS games, 5 Gold Gloves, and being a consistent stay in the top ten in many league batting categories doesn't get you into the HOF???
    Atlanta Braves, Charlotte Hornets, Shawn Kemp, Dale Murphy, and Bobby Engram.
  • HoopsterHoopster Posts: 1,169
    His 1982 MVP was a pure gift...only received because they did better than expected, and he was the best player on the unexpected team. He was not nearly as good as Mike Schmidt that season.

    His best finishes in MLB in adjusted Batter Runs are as follows,

    4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th. No other top tens.


    For comparison sakes, Pedro Guerrero's best finishes were...
    1, 3, 3, 5, 5


    However, his prime is better than somebody's like Rafael Palmeiro who played in the era of easy hitting and dominating inferior peers. Palmeiro's best MLB rankings are..

    3,6, and 7th! No othe top tens. That is hardly HOF material, as he is the true definition of compiler. A player who was never remotely considered the best hitter in baseball(and from an offensive position). He was a product of the easy times to dominate, plain and simple...steroids aside too.


  • mrbecker712mrbecker712 Posts: 525


    << <i>His 1982 MVP was a pure gift...only received because they did better than expected, and he was the best player on the unexpected team. He was not nearly as good as Mike Schmidt that season.

    >>



    Murph has more HRs, better average, and more stolen bases than Schmidt that year, and yet he wasn't "nearly as good"?

    Murph hit 30+ HRs in six different seasons in the 80's, which is pretty impressive considering the era it was in. He also had his fair share of MVP snubs as well. I.E. 1987, when Dawson wins because he hits 5 more HRs. Murph beat him in average, OPS, and stolen bases.
    Atlanta Braves, Charlotte Hornets, Shawn Kemp, Dale Murphy, and Bobby Engram.
  • 1960toppsguy1960toppsguy Posts: 1,127 ✭✭
    This has got to be a joke, if MURPH is in the hall of fame he will be buying a ticket to see the games greats just like you and I would.image
  • CrimsonTiderCrimsonTider Posts: 1,381 ✭✭✭
    Ever since MLB began presenting a MVP award in 1911, only seven times has a player either won his leagues MVP award or led his league in homeruns in four straight years.

    1) Frank Baker 1911-14, led the AL in HRs. His best year being 1913 when he tallied 12 round trippers

    2) Babe Ruth 1918-1921, led the AL in HRs

    3) Babe Ruth 1926-1931, led the Al in HRs

    4) Ralph Kiner 1946-1952, led the NL in HRs

    5) Mickey Mantle 1955-1958, led the AL in HRs in 55, 56,& 58; won the AL MVP in 56, 57

    6) Dale Murphy 1982-1985, won the NL in 82, 83; led the NL in HRs in 84, 85

    7) Barry Bonds 2001-2004, Won NL MVP; led NL in HRs in 01

    collecting Dale Murphy and OPC
  • bman90278bman90278 Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Ever since MLB began presenting a MVP award in 1911, only seven times has a player either won his leagues MVP award or led his league in homeruns in four straight years.

    1) Frank Baker 1911-14, led the AL in HRs. His best year being 1913 when he tallied 12 round trippers

    2) Babe Ruth 1918-1921, led the AL in HRs

    3) Babe Ruth 1926-1931, led the Al in HRs

    4) Ralph Kiner 1946-1952, led the NL in HRs

    5) Mickey Mantle 1955-1958, led the AL in HRs in 55, 56,& 58; won the AL MVP in 56, 57

    6) Dale Murphy 1982-1985, won the NL in 82, 83; led the NL in HRs in 84, 85

    7) Barry Bonds 2001-2004, Won NL MVP; led NL in HRs in 01 >>



    LOL image

    Murphy deserves to be in the Hall of Goodness

    Murphy was one of my favorites during his career too.
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  • DrJDrJ Posts: 2,213


    << <i>Ever since MLB began presenting a MVP award in 1911, only seven times has a player either won his leagues MVP award or led his league in homeruns in four straight years.

    1) Frank Baker 1911-14, led the AL in HRs. His best year being 1913 when he tallied 12 round trippers

    2) Babe Ruth 1918-1921, led the AL in HRs

    3) Babe Ruth 1926-1931, led the Al in HRs

    4) Ralph Kiner 1946-1952, led the NL in HRs

    5) Mickey Mantle 1955-1958, led the AL in HRs in 55, 56,& 58; won the AL MVP in 56, 57

    6) Dale Murphy 1982-1985, won the NL in 82, 83; led the NL in HRs in 84, 85

    7) Barry Bonds 2001-2004, Won NL MVP; led NL in HRs in 01 >>





    All that means is Murphy has a very nice stretch of 4-5 years which is a minimum requirement for HOF consideration. He honestly needed to but up 2-3 more good seasons. He fizzled out quicker than his peers and never reach the magic numbers in any of the all time categories. I really liked his play and loved it when he came to Philly but he never panned out and went downhill unlike any other player I have witnessed.

    Remember he only went over 100 RBI 5 times and ended up with less than 1300 for his career. His power numbers after 1987 went from great to good to gone.

    With Jim Rice getting the nod, there is hope for Murphy. I would not protest his entrance but on the same hand I would not campaign for his entrance either.
  • sportscardtheorysportscardtheory Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭
    He gets such a little amount of votes. Don't you think if he was worthy on any level, he would get more votes? A LOT of people vote for the Hall and they are not ALL stupid. Clearly he is not worthy. Dawson will get in. Blyleven will get in. Murphy is really not close to them in voting.
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  • Nathaniel1960Nathaniel1960 Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Murph is my 2nd favorite player of all time, It would be awesome if he did get in, but im not holding my breath. I think with a few more productive seasons, Chipper has an excellent shot. he hasnt played a full injury free season since 2003 though. >>



    Chipper is a LOCK now. There is nothing left to prove.
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  • IronmanfanIronmanfan Posts: 5,495 ✭✭✭✭
    Dale Murphy = Hall of Good (not Fame)
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  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,259 ✭✭✭✭
    No Hall for Murphy. He went south very quickly.
  • WeekendHackerWeekendHacker Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭
    Are we really back to this after this thread was burried for two years? Yes, he won back to back MVP's, it doesn't make him a HOFER any more than Zolio (what's his name) who won an MVP in 1965. Dale had a nice career, but he is no more deserving than Dwight Evans - no MVP's. Compare the stats:

    Murphy:
    Career G AB R H 2B 3B HR GS RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG
    18 Years 2,180 7,960 1,197 2,111 350 39 398 5 1,266 986 159 1,748 6 60 28 209 .265 .346 .469

    Evans:
    Career G AB R H 2B 3B HR GS RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP GIDP AVG OBP SLG
    20 Years 2,606 8,996 1,470 2,446 483 73 385 6 1,384 1,391 60 1,697 52 77 53 227 .272 .370 .470
  • VintageCardLoverVintageCardLover Posts: 584 ✭
    me thinks a lot of you guys got spoiled on steroid junkies.
    There would be no shame in putting Murphy in the HOF.
  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,153 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>me thinks a lot of you guys got spoiled on steroid junkies.
    There would be no shame in putting Murphy in the HOF. >>


    OK, fine. Make the case for Dale Murphy. Only requirement is that no part of your argument contain anything like the phrase "for a 5-year stretch"...


    Tabe
  • DrJDrJ Posts: 2,213


    << <i>me thinks a lot of you guys got spoiled on steroid junkies.
    There would be no shame in putting Murphy in the HOF. >>



    I believe Murphy was clean, but is a known fact throughout Baseball that the early 90's Phillies teams which he was a member were notorious Roid users. Not saying he used or didnt use but just being a member of the team with Dykstra, Daulton, Hollins, etc could place some doubt in certain voters minds.

    He also had a few year window after retirement in the late 90s and early 00s where the whol Roid issue was not fully brought to light in the public eye. The voters gave him no love then and no love recently after the roiders were exposed so his chance are pretty slim of making the hall.
  • burke23burke23 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭
    Murphy wouldn't be a horrible inductee - but not as good as Blyleven, Raines, and others I am too lazy to look up right now.
    Looking for rare Randy Moss rookies and autos, as well as '97 PMG Red Football cards for my set.
  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,607 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I believe Murphy was clean, but is a known fact throughout Baseball that the early 90's Phillies teams which he was a member were notorious Roid users. Not saying he used or didnt use but just being a member of the team with Dykstra, Daulton, Hollins, etc could place some doubt in certain voters minds. >>



    I don't think even one HOF voter thinks for a second that Murphy took steroids. He was on the Phillies in the early nineties for just one full season (1991), a year in which he hit 18 HR in the twilight of his career. His lack of HOF consideration is because the overall numbers, while close, are just not there.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭
    Now if he had stayed a catcher and had those numbers I think he would be in.
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  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    Though his numbers aren't all that different from Jim Rice, nope. Hall of Very Good to Excellent.
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