Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread- 24 WINS AWAY FROM .500

Morgoth · January 3, 2008 12:01AM

Yeah well someone had to start one. I just looked at our roster today and saw something very interesting. We have 6 former #1 draft picks and 1 second rounder on the pitching staff but 0 #1 draft pick non pitchers and only 1 second rounder. It seems that they have been trying to build up through the draft by drafting pitchers. Well our scouts suck at this or pitchers are like QBs, high bust potential.

Of all the former first rounders, only Paul Mahlom has shown any real potential. Duke cannot strike anyone out and his whip is crazy high, unless he can develop a pitch to finish of hitters he is out of BB in 2 years. Gorzelany is the only high draft pick (2nd round) to really pan out but he is nowhere near as good as Snell who I think was undrafted or late rounder.

It just shows that the Pirates are thinking either about how much a prospect is too sign and therefore goes after a good contract not the player or the scouting is atrocious. Maybe we should start drafting some position players in the 1st 2 rounds.

baseballfan · January 3, 2008 1:11AM

i think they need to maximize their return for bay and start developing players better. drafting well is the best start and minor leagues are important. make good trades not just trades to make trades. i would trade bay for an young outfielder and young starter to try to develop and go from there.

bigfische · January 3, 2008 2:18AM

How do Pirate fans feel about Laroche? I like the him and hope he does well for the Pirates, but after his first season there, he probably didnt blow any fans out of the water with his play.

Morgoth · January 3, 2008 3:11AM

Laroche started off way too slow for fans to take to him but he was their best player offensively last year. As the season went on Bay's All Star break swoon made fans forget Laroche's horrid start so I would say last year was a push for him. Fans aren't excited but don't blame him for the failure of last season. The trade was actually a good one for team.

Trading Bay right now wouldn't yield much. Last year would have been much better as he was coming off a career type year. He swooned so dramatically, Brian Giles esque, that there are rumors abound. I think you have to let him build back up his value before trading.

Trades of the last two years have not been that bad, Mike Gonzalez for Adam Laroche, got an everyday player for a closer but we had Matt Capps in place so no harm to that position. Getting Xavier Nady for an eratic starter has been ok. The steal has been the pick up of Freddy Sanchez from the Red Sox.

The deals of Jason Schmidt and Aramis Ramirez really tore the team apart. They got nothing for those 2 all star players. It has set the team back 5 years. The Jason Kendal deal was just retarded and we were lucky to be rid of him to Oakland (how do you like your OBP now!).

Pirates are at least 3 players and 2 pitchers away from competing. We have no power hitting prospects in the minors ready for call up unless you count Brad Eldred.

Clemaz · January 3, 2008 11:19AM

We need young guys coming from within the system and not the Matt Morris's of the world. Hopefully the new regime will draft better. If it is true that the Pirates passed on trading for Ryan Howard because they had Brad Eldred that explains why the Pirates have been were they are.

gemint · January 3, 2008 1:14PM

Pirates scouting truely sucks! Thankfully they fired Ed Creech, aka Screech. Most of their #1 pick pitchers blew out their arms in the minors. Colborn tweaked Duke's delivery to turn him from a sub-2.00 ERA pitcher to a five sixety something pitcher. They tried to convert a top hitting prospect (John Van Benschoten) into a pitcher. He looks like Jose Canseco looked AFTER he blew out his elbow trying to pitch. Then there's Daniel Moskos, their #1 pick out of Clemson this year. He was the #6 pitching prospect according to draft experts. They passed on Matt Weiters, a Johnny Bench type catcher, and used the #4 overall pick to take the 6th best pitcher in the draft. But hey, middle relief is the Pirates' biggest need. Well at least he was cheap to sign.

It's sad to say that I'm embarassed to consider myself a fan of this once proud franchise. However, I've been rooting for them since '75 and lousy ownership won't change that.

Morgoth · January 3, 2008 9:13PM

It is embarressing and 100% ownership's fault. Alot of trades such as the Aramis Rameriz trade were dictated to Littlefield who said that was the worst day of his professional life, making that deal. Littlefield however did pull the trigger and should have at least gotten a MLB quality player.

I agree Matt Morris is a curious signing but if he can go 12-12 with a sub 4.5 ERA he would be most likely the #2 or #3 starter on the team. He is just trade bait more than likely.

As long as the Pirates continue to draft players based on signability instead of talent our team will never improve. Look at how Detroit has changed in just the last few years not only in draft but free agency.

Morgoth · January 4, 2008 6:06AM

Pirates are looking to trade for Michael Barret, ugh. Maybe he can beat up Duke next time he gives up a 0-2 count HR. Also the Pirates stated they are happy with their rotation of Tom Gorzelanny, Ian Snell, Paul Maholm, Matt Morris and Zach Duke. If it is in that order, Snell is much better than Gorzelanny and Duke goes from opening starter one season to fifth starter the next.

Morgoth · January 7, 2008 12:30AM

Hey we just signed Elmer Dessens, watch out Cubbies.

Morgoth · January 15, 2008 2:09AM

Predictions for 2008

1. Zach Duke will struggle with his command of his curve ball again and will injure himself trying out new release points by May.

2. Sean Burnett will replace him in the rotation and will be injured 2 months later before going on the DL after the AS break.

3. Bryan Bullington will be tried at both closer and starter during the season.

4. Jason Bay recovers and hits .300 again but with career lows for HR's and RBI's but doubles go up.

5. Adam Laroche takes over as team leader for soft spoken Bay and has a career season in HR's and RBI's. Will only hit .275 though.

6. Freddy Sanchez contends for another batting title and drive in over 80 runs.

7. Matt Morris is traded before the All Star game.

8. Jack Wilson has a great start to 2008 and is traded shortly before the deadline to the Cardinals.

9. Ian Snell wins 16 gams and is in the top 5 in the NL in K's and ERA.

10. Tom Gorzellany only wins 10 games but has respectable Whip and ERA number but no run support.

11. Ronny Paulino dies from exhaustion in September unless they get another catcher who can hit above .200.

12. Pirates finish 3rd in the division with a 77-85 record.

13. For the 12th straight year the Pirates fail to produce an everyday MLB quality outfielder from the minors with Jose Guillen being the last.

goose3 · January 15, 2008 4:40AM

morgoth,

since you're a pirates fan....

I'm heading over to Marc Wilkins' place with my son in a bit. He lives a few miles from me and has just opened an indoor baseball training place for kids.

My kid goes at least 1/week and uses the batting cage. We took some lessons from him (pitching) after little league ended last year. Wow what a difference that made.

He's a really decent dude.

Morgoth · January 15, 2008 6:38AM

Very cool, any tips from him can only help and who's a kid gonna listen to more you are him? Glad I got another post in here besides me I am begining to think no one cares about the Pirates

.

goose3 · January 15, 2008 7:25AM

if you've got any Wilkins cards that my boy doesn't have shoot me a PM.

Morgoth · January 15, 2008 9:13PM

I will look tonight!

Clemaz · January 17, 2008 12:35PM

<< <i>Glad I got another post in here besides me I am begining to think no one cares about the Pirates . >>

I do.

Morgoth · January 17, 2008 2:33PM

Great, we now have 2, where's Dude? Who the heck is going to play centerfield?

Clemaz · January 27, 2008 4:36AM

I have to agree with Jason Bay, the Pirates have done absolutely nothing to improve themselves this winter.

Morgoth · January 27, 2008 12:05PM

Sounds like Bay is bucking for a trade to me, can't blame him. They have not improved, what they think their starters will carry them past their crappy hitting?

rajah424 · January 27, 2008 1:45PM

I lived and worked in Pittsburgh back in '06 and became a Pirates fan. It's a shame they can't field a better team, they have the best stadium in the majors (i've been to 23). They also have great fans and a great tradition.

On a side note i lived in Shadyside and loved it. Enjoyed hanging out in Oakland, would have loved seeing a game at Forbes field. Pittsburgh gets a bad rap i think. It's a great city that i hope to get to work in again, hopefully soon.

Connecticoin · January 29, 2008 1:28AM

Well they still have a really nice stadium.

Morgoth · January 29, 2008 9:14PM

Yes they do and I hope to see them this year. I have an opportunity to work for Heinz that I am considering so maybe I can get some tickets as part of my package

goose3 · January 29, 2008 10:53PM

if you get some tix, I would not be against the idea of making a day trip with my son this summer to go to a game there!

we did that for a Reds game last summer. (3 hour drive each way)

Pitts is about 3 from here as well.

anyone got the 1996 topps Wilkins card?? It has Washburn and some other guy on it too.....

Morgoth · January 30, 2008 10:07AM

Sorry Goose, I looked but his cards were in my dark period where I didn't really collect newer stuff anymore.

Morgoth · January 30, 2008 10:09AM

I am actually interviewing this month in Cincinnatti for a flavor company so I might be seeing them there instead. I drove down from Indy last year to see the Pirates play the Reds when Snell pitched. They lost but he was great.

Morgoth · February 12, 2008 12:12AM

Hey looks like we got Doug Mientkiewicz whoopeee. I also see on Yahoo our catching is rated 2nd from the bottom in the NL.

Clemaz · February 12, 2008 12:19AM

<< <i> Hey looks like we got Doug Mientkiewicz whoopeee. >>

A player from the Redsox 2004 world series. I am glad he is the one we got over Manny or Big Poppi.

Morgoth · February 12, 2008 12:37AM

Yeah those guys have bad attitudes and we sure don't need to ruin our team chemistry with those kinda players

Morgoth · February 25, 2008 12:36AM

Pirates sign pitcher Byung-Hyun Kim to 1-year contract, plan to use him in relief, at least that's the headline on Yahoo. I don't know about this one as he seems to have control issues and his BAA has gone up the last couple of years as people maybe have figured out his funky delivery. Kent Tekulve is in camp as a special instructor, maybe he can help straighten him out.

Morgoth · March 3, 2008 3:10AM

Nice Zach Duke, 2 HR's in the first inning. Guy makes Greg Maddux look like a Roger Clemens, he has about a quarter of an inch of margin on his fastball or it's a HR.

Clemaz · March 11, 2008 11:05AM

Morgoth,

Just wanted your opionion on Josh Wilson. Not a great Major Leaguer, but I got a chance to see him play when he was at Mt.Lebanon. He totally crushed the ball for 2 homeruns in the game. Now he is a singles hitter I can't even imagine what sluggers like Frank Thomas,Ryan Howard etc. were like in High School.

Morgoth · March 11, 2008 12:46PM

If Sanchez is hurt he could make the team. He has been an error machine in his career so I don't think his fielding can keep him up for long if he can't hit. He pitched one inning last year maybe convert him and be a reverse Ankiel.

Clemaz · March 31, 2008 12:17PM

5 runs in the bottom of the ninth. Aggggghhhh

bigfische · March 31, 2008 12:19PM

just give up will ya!?

Morgoth · March 31, 2008 9:17PM

Yeah way to come back after blowing a huge lead. Wow imagine if Nady can stay healthy all year? Snell was just average today but we got some hits. Laroche is coming out hitting as opposed to his frigid 2007 start. Bay didn't do anything however and that is very concerning.

gemint · April 1, 2008 5:02AM

You should rename this the 'Pittsburgh Pirates .500 or Bust Thread'. One down, 80 to go...and there was noooooooo doubt about it!

Some random thoughts:

* Duke has actually looked better this spring after a rough start. I'm hoping the new pitching coach has helped him readjust back to his pre-2006 delivery.
*Rivas could be a nice acquisition.
* I'm glad they paid off Kim. Littlebrains would have kept him so he wouldn't have to admit he made a mistake.

perkdog · April 1, 2008 5:42AM

Whats the deal with Jason Bay?

and5zac · April 1, 2008 6:05AM

Defensivley last year he showed that he is a weak link! He plays dumb ,making lots of mental mistakes.His arm is not that strong either.He made up for it by hitting like Mendoza!

Lou

Morgoth · April 1, 2008 6:10AM

I saw a replay of that error in the 9th, what a freakin disaster. I hate to say stuff like this but it seems awful suspicious that Bay tanks just at the same time HGH and Roids are banned and testing starts. He says he is 100% healthy for the first time in 3 years but he only had 3 xbh all spring. Sad thin is that 2 years ago the Pirates could of traded Bay for a couple of good prospects now he is approaching Sean Casey land.

.500 would be hell of season for this team, so lets keep an official count.

gemint · April 1, 2008 8:26AM

<< <i>I saw a replay of that error in the 9th, what a freakin disaster. I hate to say stuff like this but it seems awful suspicious that Bay tanks just at the same time HGH and Roids are banned and testing starts. He says he is 100% healthy for the first time in 3 years but he only had 3 xbh all spring. Sad thin is that 2 years ago the Pirates could of traded Bay for a couple of good prospects now he is approaching Sean Casey land.

.500 would be hell of season for this team, so lets keep an official count. >>

There will be a lot of suspicions about players that are having significant drop offs in performance. Gibbons is a great example. He roided and had a few decent seasons, parlaying it into a multimillion dollar contrac that the O's are forced to eat. Matt Morris is another question mark. Maybe his arm just wore out but one has to wonder how he drops so far, so fast. Same goes for Barry Zito...can hardly hit 85MPH on the radar gun now.

If anyone doesn't think steroids are a problem, these are examples to show why they are. What Gibbon did to the O's is as good as stealing. He was a fraud his entire career and got rich thanks to cheating. Meanwhile other players who didn't cheat bounced around barely hanging on while getting paid the minimum.

Sorry I'll get off my soapbox now.

I really hope this isn't the case with Bay. I'm hoping he just had a bad 6 months.

Morgoth · April 2, 2008 10:32PM

Argh Marte looks like meat. He needs to be a stud. Yeah Bay got a hit finally. Nady still going strong. Gorz pitched ok, Snell and him will need to be lights out this year for any shot. The Maholom and Duke are the keys to this year IMO.

Clemaz · April 3, 2008 11:42AM

79 more to go.

Morgoth · April 3, 2008 9:03PM

Yes nice come from behind wins, we would be 0-3 w/o Nady. Duke gave up 10 hits in under 6 innings and only had 1 K. Same old Duke if you ask me. He can't put anyone away with his mediocre stuff. He needs an out pitch of some sort. Laroche is off to a cold start but Bay is at least getting on base now. I am really curious to see Maholom as he might be the sleeper starter for them.

Morgoth · April 6, 2008 11:34AM

Snell stepping it up and Nady being a stud still.

Morgoth · April 12, 2008 12:50PM

Snell wins again. Bullpen has rebounded after the first week. Good starting pitching for the most part all year. I hope we can sweep

If Laroche can do anything we would be much better. Bay is coming around I believe. What took them so long to realize McClouth is a stud?

Morgoth · April 13, 2008 10:42PM

SWEEP! Back to .500 and a good game from Gorzelany. Bay's 3rd HR of the season. Come on Laroche, help us out a little before the AS break.

baseballpa21 · April 14, 2008 10:41AM

I don't think the Bucs want any high price super stars due to the fact they are making money and as long as the fans put up with it they will only pretend to care...Just my opinon..Bring back the 71 Buccos..

Morgoth · April 14, 2008 11:22AM

I don't think that's the entire story. With the old management they were given a set budget and were told to cut players before they became too expensive (IE the terrible Aramis Ramieriz trade). Until they add players in the offseason fans have a reason to complain I agree, but I also agree there weren't that many players available in this years FA pool that would of fit this team and been good value. Overpay for Andruw Jones when McClouth is on your team? So far I think they made the right moves. Now if Bay starts hitting, will they move him and get more young players (I guarantee Beane would as GM) or resign him? Laroche isn't signed yet so maybe they hedge on Bay in case Laroche leaves. They are 2 sluggers away from a real team right now IMO.

Morgoth · April 15, 2008 12:41AM

Great win tonight, wow I can't believe it. McClouth might be a legitamite MLB outfielder, wow I may have to take back my predictions for 2008 if he continues like this.

Cubby · April 15, 2008 3:10PM

Matt Capps is good. (And also one of my fantasy closers)

Morgoth · April 16, 2008 1:47AM

Yes he has picked it up after the first game meltdown. He was good last year, he is a big boy. In all 3 of my fantasy drafts he went as the 10th to 15th closer picked. I think he is much better than a Kerry Wood or Borowski who were all taken over him.

Rough game last night but we are still at .500.

Cubby · April 16, 2008 3:15PM

In my league, I got Capps in the last round. And yes, I took Joe
(Oh No!) Borowski in two previous rounds. So, charge Cubby
with an "E".

Official Pittsburgh Pirates Thread- 24 WINS AWAY FROM .500

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