Don't count ICG out ! - a note from Mike Ellis
dcarr
Posts: 8,574 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just received a note from Mike Ellis asking me to post the following from him:
"Don't count ICG out! The owners are committed to providing a fair, unbiased product for their customers. Who is going to assure this quality product? Can you say, 'the most experienced numismatists from ANACS?' Sure, I thought you could! Stay tuned....
To end speculation about ICG's status, ICG is very much still in business. Historically, ICG is always closed for the week between Christmas and New Year's Day, hence customers not being able to contact anyone in the office and the lack of changes to the website. I have been assured all the deletions of ex-ICG staff and a brief statement of what has transpired will be posted no later than close of business on Wednesday. Additionally, there will be an in depth article in the next issue of Coin World to initially be available to online subsribers later in the day on Monday. I highly suspect more will appear in Numismatic News in their next issue.
Happy Holidays!"
"Don't count ICG out! The owners are committed to providing a fair, unbiased product for their customers. Who is going to assure this quality product? Can you say, 'the most experienced numismatists from ANACS?' Sure, I thought you could! Stay tuned....
To end speculation about ICG's status, ICG is very much still in business. Historically, ICG is always closed for the week between Christmas and New Year's Day, hence customers not being able to contact anyone in the office and the lack of changes to the website. I have been assured all the deletions of ex-ICG staff and a brief statement of what has transpired will be posted no later than close of business on Wednesday. Additionally, there will be an in depth article in the next issue of Coin World to initially be available to online subsribers later in the day on Monday. I highly suspect more will appear in Numismatic News in their next issue.
Happy Holidays!"
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Hear that hammering sound? It's coffin nails.
Russ, NCNE >>
Does their product add value to the coins that are slabbed by their services?
<< <i>Why would a collector or dealer want to submit to either of them at this point?
Does their product add value to the coins that are slabbed by their services? >>
We'll have to see what kind of services they offer. If they have superior service and/or lower cost, then yes, I think people will continue to submit coins to them. At this point, both are still accepted on eBay.
A good question. Here are two more:
1. Has being in any of the sub-top tier holders added value to the coins in them?
2. Has the answer done anything to stop more TPGs from popping up?
<< <i> Why would a collector or dealer want to submit to either of them at this point?
Does their product add value to the coins that are slabbed by their services? >>
It may not add value but ICG is one of the few companies that will attribute varieties for a series by the CONECA numbers when they are not in the Cherrypickers’ Guide.
ditto the variety attribution aspect for anacs and add the bonus of getting problem coins slabbed and there you have it
there is a whole world out there beyond PCGS and NGC
greg
www.brunkauctions.com
<< <i>both have their niche markets.......ICG is known for being the go to TPG for world and ancients, while offering superlative variety attribution in the U.S. series
ditto the variety attribution aspect for anacs and add the bonus of getting problem coins slabbed and there you have it
there is a whole world out there beyond PCGS and NGC
greg >>
Yes, exactly.
<< <i>
<< <i>both have their niche markets.......ICG is known for being the go to TPG for world and ancients, while offering superlative variety attribution in the U.S. series
ditto the variety attribution aspect for anacs and add the bonus of getting problem coins slabbed and there you have it
there is a whole world out there beyond PCGS and NGC
greg >>
Yes, exactly. >>
Unfortunately, it has been my experience that many/most DEALERS in ancient coins despise their slabs (primarily because they despise ALL slabs.) I personally liked the ICG slabbed ancients when I collected such coins, but also remember the bad-mouthing that began immediately upon presenting them for sale or trade to some ancient coin dealers.
<< <i>1. Has being in any of the sub-top tier holders added value to the coins in them? >>
Depends on how you define "sub-top tier."
Put a raw '09-S VDB up against the same in an ANACS, ICG, SEGS or even PCI holder. I suspect the latter will be trusted more than the raw coin -- maybe not as much as one slabbed by PCGS or NGC, but certainly more than raw. That means it does add value. Maybe not as much value as the "right" plastic adds, but when you're talking about authentication of key dates, anything even remotely respected as legitimate and professional is better than raw.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>both have their niche markets.......ICG is known for being the go to TPG for world and ancients, while offering superlative variety attribution in the U.S. series
ditto the variety attribution aspect for anacs and add the bonus of getting problem coins slabbed and there you have it
there is a whole world out there beyond PCGS and NGC
greg >>
Yes, exactly. >>
Unfortunately, it has been my experience that many/most DEALERS in ancient coins despise their slabs (primarily because they despise ALL slabs.) I personally liked the ICG slabbed ancients when I collected such coins, but also remember the bad-mouthing that began immediately upon presenting them for sale or trade to some ancient coin dealers. >>
Don't forget that ANACS also slabs ancients. Neither company is welcomed by most of the ancient numismatic field, but they do have their place. I think both company's entrance into the ancient market is important for enticing new collectors since someone who is not well-versed in ancients can be guaranteed to get an authentic coin that is attributed correctly. The grading systems used by both are somewhat humorous as they try to shoehorn the Sheldon system into a collecting world that does not use it.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>both have their niche markets.......ICG is known for being the go to TPG for world and ancients, while offering superlative variety attribution in the U.S. series
ditto the variety attribution aspect for anacs and add the bonus of getting problem coins slabbed and there you have it
there is a whole world out there beyond PCGS and NGC
greg >>
Yes, exactly. >>
Unfortunately, it has been my experience that many/most DEALERS in ancient coins despise their slabs (primarily because they despise ALL slabs.) I personally liked the ICG slabbed ancients when I collected such coins, but also remember the bad-mouthing that began immediately upon presenting them for sale or trade to some ancient coin dealers. >>
Don't forget that ANACS also slabs ancients. Neither company is welcomed by most of the ancient numismatic field, but they do have their place. I think both company's entrance into the ancient market is important for enticing new collectors since someone who is not well-versed in ancients can be guaranteed to get an authentic coin that is attributed correctly. The grading systems used by both are somewhat humorous as they try to shoehorn the Sheldon system into a collecting world that does not use it.
Lane >>
ANACS only slabbed ancients for a brief period several years back. So far as I am aware, they no longer slab ancients. Please correct me if I am wrong.
<< <i>Hear that hammering sound? It's coffin nails.
Russ, NCNE >>
I thought it was water circling the bowl.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hear that hammering sound? It's coffin nails.
Russ, NCNE >>
I thought it was water circling the bowl. >>
I was thinking someone sticking a fork in a singing fat lady.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
<< <i>This looks like the end of the road for ICG, how low can you go if even HSN dumps you? >>
Not so fast. Things are developing at ICG.
<< <i>both have their niche markets.......ICG is known for being the go to TPG for world and ancients, while offering superlative variety attribution in the U.S. series
ditto the variety attribution aspect for anacs and add the bonus of getting problem coins slabbed and there you have it >>
I think "had" and "was" are now more suitable descriptors.
Russ, NCNE
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
NoEbayAuctionsForNow
<< <i>
ANACS only slabbed ancients for a brief period several years back. So far as I am aware, they no longer slab ancients. Please correct me if I am wrong. >>
I recall seeing ancients in their new slabs, but that was at an ANA show in 2006. I do not submit ancients for slabbing so I am not sure if they still do it as a regular service (or rather did them up until last week).
The coins filled a dealer's "double" case but the dealer never seemed to be at their table! I never saw much market penetration so they may have stopped shortly after they started slabbing them.
ICG has been fairly successful in ancients thanks to JP Martin as he is fairly knowledgeable about ancients (as well as other numismatic areas).
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
<< <i>
<< <i>This looks like the end of the road for ICG, how low can you go if even HSN dumps you? >>
Not so fast. Things are developing at ICG. >>
QVC?
<< <i>"Don't count ICG out! The owners are committed to providing a fair, unbiased product for their customers. >>
Who are these owners?
<< <i>Hear that hammering sound? It's coffin nails.
Russ, NCNE >>
And then there was only two
<< <i>If there is a guarantee that stands behind the authenticity and grade of the coin in the slab, then value is added by the slab. >>
But will they "sticker" or will people "snicker"?
<< <i>This is all so very interesting. ICG and ANACS have a history of swapping things around. We know who the new owner of ANACS is. Who owns ICG now ? >>
Well, who does own ICG at this point?
I have a curiosity question to throw out. Why would ICG go to Port Arthur TX on Dec. 8th for a
one day show?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Hear that hammering sound? It's coffin nails.
Russ, NCNE >>
I thought it was water circling the bowl. >>
I was thinking someone sticking a fork in a singing fat lady. >>
Leave Laura out of this!
Now you tell me. I counted them out years ago.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This looks like the end of the road for ICG, how low can you go if even HSN dumps you? >>
Not so fast. Things are developing at ICG. >>
QVC? >>
QFC
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I hope ICG continues to grade ancients. Just look at E-bay - there are more and more ICG graded ancients listed each month. Heritage sells them as well, and even some VCoins dealers do. Sooner or later the ancient market will be assimilated
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Short of PCGS taking over ICG I believe they are through, along with ANACS. And I’m not so sure the ANA appreciates the way HSN has played with their reputation by inferring that ANACS is the part of the ANA that does their grading. (Watch the show and judge for yourself on that one)
Bottom line, I do not trust the grading of ICG, I do not feel that my money would be well spent having anything graded by them, I also feel that the resale value of anything in an ICG holder is no better than selling it raw, in some cases worse than raw.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
<< <i>Why would a collector or dealer want to submit to either of them at this point?
Does their product add value to the coins that are slabbed by their services? >>
I just sent some Lincolns to I C G because I just needed authentication, the price was right ( 14-D was free) and turnaround time met an ebay sellers timeframe. Could not ask for more than that, who cares what they graded it.
<< <i>How can ICG be counted in, they sold their reputation the same way that ANACS has now. ICG and ANACS are just company names, if you sell the company to someone that just wants the names for the reputation and they trade on that reputation to dupe the public the way HSN does then you can not expect the numismatic community to give you a second or in some cases a third chance.
Short of PCGS taking over ICG I believe they are through, along with ANACS. And I’m not so sure the ANA appreciates the way HSN has played with their reputation by inferring that ANACS is the part of the ANA that does their grading. (Watch the show and judge for yourself on that one)
Bottom line, I do not trust the grading of ICG, I do not feel that my money would be well spent having anything graded by them, I also feel that the resale value of anything in an ICG holder is no better than selling it raw, in some cases worse than raw. >>
I've sold many ICG coins on eBay and I did well with them. Their grading is better than NGC, and even on moderns (platinum Eagles) I liked their MS-69s better than PCGS MS-69s I had.
<< <i>Why does Mike Ellis have to ask someone else to post for him? >>
He is obviously not a regular and if you sign up on a weekend you will not be able to post until your account is approved which will likely be monday or later; SO if you got sumptin to say on sunday you best fine smoeone else to post it fer ya.
I must have missed something.
Free Trial
Rick,
I signed up for membership on the PCGS message board but don't yet have access to post. So, can you do me the favor of posting the following for me?
Thanks for speeking up for me.
Thanks!
Mike Ellis
<< <i>Is this the same Mike Ellis who worked for ANACS and was let go? Why is he now pumping ICG?
I must have missed something. >>
Maybe BongoBongo has the answer.
It is not about obtaining a grade but documenting the existence of all new medals and medallions.
It is almost a public service.
If ICG ceases to do this service then I would suggest that the ANA gets back into doing attribution and slabbing of modern medals to preserve the history of new medals being issued.