Do Dealers really pay so little attention to their coins at shows ?

silvereagle

Theft/arrest // A 65-year-old Ohio man was detained Friday by a security officer during a coin show at the Baltimore Convention Center, held for police and then charged with stealing at least $12,000 worth of collectible coins from at least four displays. Taken from Letch Worth Coins were 14 coins from 1800 to 1900 valued at $5,327; seven coins from 1854 to 1926 valued at $4,950 from collector Brian Kuszmar; 43 coins between 1800 and 1900 from P. Silverton valued at $1,875 and seven buffalo nickels valued at nearly $300 from Bach's Coin Box. Held at Central Booking and Intake Center was Keith Lucas of Euclid.



This story was in coin world at the back of the 12/17 issue. How does a guy manage to steal from at least 4 different displays before finally being caught. I wish he would have just stolen the $5,327 from "LEECH" worth coins and called it a day. Had to get greedy and get his arse caught.

fc

well him being an older man is one way not to stand out in the crowd.

i wonder if dealers pay more attention to a 30 something in a sweat
shirt and tennis shoes?!?

but yea, that is shocking a person can steal from so many different
dealers surrounded by other folks who generally care about the dealers
and will blow the whistle immediately.

Russ

It can be very difficult in the middle of a busy show for a dealer to watch out for thieves. Plus, they frequently work in pairs. While one is distracting the dealer pretending to be a customer, the other is doing the deed. I do not envy show dealers.

Russ, NCNE

silvereagle

High valued coins too. I would think a seller would have 2 or 3 other guys behind his table with him also so they can keep an eye on all. That criminal got greedy because the story said he was still walking around when he got arrested. He had $12 K in coins and was still looking for more

Casman

I heard that guy was well known in the numismatic community, so maybe that was his game.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>I heard that guy was well known in the numismatic community, so maybe that was his game. >>



Got Pics ?

Cgb

<< <i>I heard that guy was well known in the numismatic community, so maybe that was his game. >>



Are you sure? I would think that if the thief was well known in the community there would be more of a ruckus.

eCoinquest

Wonder if he new the value of the coins or was just picking ones that "looked" expensive.
Hmmmm.....

ahooka454

im a cleveland guy, and was at the baltimore show. what a black spot on our hobby. the thought of some 65 yrold guy walking around commiting grand theft coin is mind boggling. i may be called alot of things by alot of people but never been called a theif. he should be barred from all future shows and black balled by collectors and dealers. we as a group of passionate collectors should not stand for this. i am 25 and get the LOOK from dealers now and then and as soon as i pull out some of my coins, they finally realize im not trying to rob them. its ok though because its just the cost of paying our dos. but this guy goes and STEALS someones hard earned money and disgraces all of us. i am personally disgusted with this guy and his repulsive actions. not 1 but 4 dealers. how many other shows has this THEIF been to and how many coins does he have that were stolen. this is not a good thing for us all. i spend my honest money on honest dealers coins and this guy comes along and does this. he should not be able to collect anymore. what a piece of work.

TwoSides2aCoin

ahooka454..., Bravo on your post.
Honesty is always the best policy.

ahooka454

thanks man, i am just so personnally irrate over this. he s 65, what they hell else has he snatched and for how long... this really needs alot of discussion i think...

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>

<< <i>I heard that guy was well known in the numismatic community, so maybe that was his game. >>



Got Pics ? >>

From 12/17 Coin World:

Elcontador

Several things I do at shows to make dealers' lives easier in light of this thread:

Be patient. If there are some people lot viewing and I want to see a coin or two, I wait until I am recognized by someone on the other side of the table.

When I am looking at lots, I always keep the coins in front of me. When I don't want one or several of them, I let the dealer know, and hand it back to him / her slowly, with an open hand so he / she can see everything I am doing.

Gemineye

What a dirtbag......!!!!

ricko

Will be interesting to see what his sentence will be.... probably 10-15, out in 8... Cheers, RickO

sneaky

His sentance would be less if he was here in KY.

I worked hard to put away a thief/burglar that broke into my friend's apartment(business office for the apartments that he owned) and stole $6,000 cash(Rent money, first of the month). The case was a slam dunk, with video surveillance and blood to submit for DNA. The guy took a plea to SERVE 4 years. He had a rap sheet that looked like a career felon.

He was out in 40 days, and two nights after he was out my friend's apartment got burglarized again, but strangely enough, no evidence or video this time!? He cleaned up his act since he knew what caught him the first time, so he made sure to avoid it this time.

Thiefs deserve to have their hands cut off!

Mike C

ahooka454

mike,
atleast you put in effort. i agree cut off their hands. once a thief always a theif. some people can come back from the dark side but theifs are a whole diff. tune. i knew a theif once, and he stole $4000 in stuff from my house when i let him crash there. to say the least I HATE FING THEIVES. hate them, hate them, hate them!!!

JRC

Guys, nothing to get worked up about. he is a thief. Maybe a professional thief.
When I worked loss prevention for a chain of departmnt stores, we used to get all types of thiefs.
The senator who was a cleptomaniac, (she was great, just follow her around discretely, write down what she stole and submit it to her husband who would reemburse the store in a timely mannor, no questions asked.) The shop lifting ring that would start at one end of the state and work it's way over to you by the weekend. Make sure you have everything on tape because they are all jail house lawyers that will sue for a million dollars even if you catch them dead to rights. They postpone and postpone waiting for you not to show up and then beg the judge to find in their favor, after all, you arrested them "falsely" and here they are and you didnt even have the respect enough for the judge to show up. I had some of these scum bags postpone he case for seven years with out the judge smartning up to what the scuzballs were doing.
Amatures were unpredictable. Sometimes they would hang there head and come quietly and sometimes the would put up a hell of a fight. I liked the fighters. I good knock down brawl always made the day go by quicker. Of course, this was in the good old days before the stores got afraid that everyone was going to sue them and win.
My absolute favorite was the profesional thief, the guy who actually did that for a living. Usually he was a class act, knew the law and what was coming and just let you do your job. he had all his I.D. readdy (or a set of extremely good false i.d) and answered your questions. e knew he was either going to the local police station or get a summons depending on how well you two hit it off. Hell, with some it got to be like a game of chess.
Sorry for the journey down memory lane. The point is that thieves have been at the shows since they first opened the doors in the 1700's. and You will not be able to keep them out. In fact, modern techknology has done more for bringing thiefs to your door that anything else. just think about computer hackers and I.D. theft.

Wolf359

The senator who was a cleptomaniac, (she was great, just follow her around discretely, write down what she stole and submit it to her husband who would reemburse the store in a timely mannor, no questions asked.)

options26

<< <i>Will be interesting to see what his sentence will be.... probably 10-15, out in 8... Cheers, RickO >>



Are you kidding me, I bet he does no more than 30 days, if any. In my line of work I deal with a lot of thiefs. I say he gets 2 years probation and some community service if he has no priors. Haven't you ever heard, "property crime pays".

I had a case recently where the receiving manager was working with delivery drivers to stiff the business out of a ton of money. In a single day we caught him and he stole $55,000 in cash and product. We interviewed him and he admitted to $1.5 million over the last year. He was arrested and spent 42 days in jail because he couldn't post bail. He was found guilty at trial and sentenced to time considered served, 2 years probation and 600 hours of community service. Didn't even have to pay restitution, but we got it out of the delivery drivers companies though.

direwolf1972

<< <i>well him being an older man is one way not to stand out in the crowd.

i wonder if dealers pay more attention to a 30 something in a sweat
shirt and tennis shoes?!?

but yea, that is shocking a person can steal from so many different
dealers surrounded by other folks who generally care about the dealers
and will blow the whistle immediately. >>



Yup. I'm in my thirties and the dealers wife watches me like a hawk every time I'm in the local shop. She's started to go a little easier on me lately. I went about ten years without going in but I can say when I was in my early twenties and going in there I thought she was going to strip search me before I left. Older seems more trust worthy. Not always true but just a stero type in a lot of places.

lathmach

Cut off his hands?
C'mon, give the guy a break. This ain't Afghanistan.
He's 65 years old, and probably just found out how much Social Security he's gonna be getting.
That'll make anyone go crazy.

Ray

TwoSides2aCoin

If it weren't for crime we wouldn't need police, lawyers, judges, prosecutors, jails, guards and wardens. Lest we forget stenographers.
Be thankful

ahooka454

latmach,


take the time to set up, drive to, pay for a table at a major show. then have some jerkoff come and steal your stuff.


your damn right cut his FING hands off. he will steal again.


65 means nothing here.

i am 100% disabled and am about to recieve ssi. i dont care what the hell his situation is. if he were stealing some food, fine, but he drove from cleveland, like i did, and stole several thosand dollars in coins. screw him and the horse he rode in on.


ill give him a break. every thieving fing finger.
this is insane that any collector would stand for this and defend this scumbag. for any reason.


i agree everyone deserves a second chance but i think if his 65, this is probably not his first time.

i know your intentions are good and just, but why is it ok to allow this theiving scum the honor of you standing up for him?
i know i seem to have a strong opinion of this, and i do. there are some things I WILL NOT STAND FOR and this is the biggy!!!!

ziggy29

<< <i>He's 65 years old, and probably just found out how much Social Security he's gonna be getting. >>

We'd better worry when future generations turn 65, then, because they'll probably get considerably less (relative to what they paid in).

tahoe98

<< <i>Will be interesting to see what his sentence will be.... probably 10-15, out in 8... Cheers, RickO >>




weeks!

silvereagle

i wish he would have gotten away with it, at least with LEECH worths coins. They are thieves themselves anyway.

ahooka454

silvereagle,

i have heard that about them recently, i have not dealt with them and probably wont because of the things ive read hear.

BrianKuszmar

<< <i>Theft/arrest // A 65-year-old Ohio man was detained Friday by a security officer during a coin show at the Baltimore Convention Center, held for police and then charged with stealing at least $12,000 worth of collectible coins from at least four displays. Taken from Letch Worth Coins were 14 coins from 1800 to 1900 valued at $5,327; seven coins from 1854 to 1926 valued at $4,950 from collector Brian Kuszmar; 43 coins between 1800 and 1900 from P. Silverton valued at $1,875 and seven buffalo nickels valued at nearly $300 from Bach's Coin Box. Held at Central Booking and Intake Center was Keith Lucas of Euclid. This story was in coin world at the back of the 12/17 issue. How does a guy manage to steal from at least 4 different displays before finally being caught. I wish he would have just stolen the $5,327 from "LEECH" worth coins and called it a day. Had to get greedy and get his arse caught. >>



Speaking for myself, I watched Lucas the whole time, I beleive that he was very good at it as I never saw him lift anything. The coins were not in a box but spread out over the case as I was putting them in date order when he asked if he could look at some. I suspect he diverted my attention when he asked me to look at a few of his coins at the same time as he was looking at mine, in retrospect he was asking me to price coins he had stolen while he stole mine. It is of my opinion he was no amateur and obviously had done this many times before. I spoke to a few dealers who have bought coins from him (unknowingly) at past shows and in no small numbers, this guy imho has been stealing allot of coins over the past years.

This guys mistake with me, the coins I had on the table were all silver dollars and type coins, I had jus prior to him walking up placed a Au $3 and a Bu Lib in the pile, I noticed immediately after he left the gold was missing and then I went to look for him and alert security. I never knew he had stolen the other coins from me.

The only solution I see is to show people coins one at a time and only deal with one person at a time but that can be tough for anyone that knows what its like to have 2,3 or more people waiting to look at coins.. This story ended well but I have a gut feeling that there are quite a few more of these folks running around shows then we care to think about or admit... Whats your solution?

Oh by the way, I was given a moment to talk to Lucas. I asked him how and he blamed it on me and simply told me it was obvious I did not care about my coins and I made it to easy..


Regards

Coinosaurus

<< <i>
The only solution I see is to show people coins one at a time and only deal with one person at a time.
>>



Yup. A shame that it has to be like that - a few bad apples spoil it for everyone

As for prosecution, just treat him like everyone else regardless of his age or past record, unless sentencing guidelines take priors into account.

ahooka454

brian,


that a real shame. and at have it al blamed on you to boot.

im 25 and have not always been a perfect soul, but a theif i am not. i was at baltimore an remember seeing this guy. he didnt stick out but as i read 12/17 coinworld, i had realized i had seen him. i too

am from the cleveland area. i wonder how many stolen coins some of the well unprofessional dealers in the area he sold to over the years? there are good dealers here, but few and far between.

i know when theres big money in small sizes, it calls to the scumbags of our society, but this is sickening to me.

i hate beinging stolen from.



i hope they nail this piece of work to the wall and make an example outta him.

but he'll only get a suspended sentance, community service, and probation fro maybe a year or two.



i for one, would like to see the dealers this guy sold to over the years and come forward and help stop this nonsense. thats the only way we'll ever truly know what extent this guy was polluting our

gret and timless hobby...





adam

mheffner2

I live in Baltimore. The city prosecution can't keep drug-related murderers jailed, a property thief is the least of their worries, especially a non-violent (in this case) one. I say he gets court costs, 80 hours service and a good stern barking at, done - if he had no priors in the past 5 years. Not even probation, they're too tied up as well. The best thing Whitman could of done in advance is beef up uncovers and hope it weeds out the element, which then the element knows there are undercovers and then decides (one would hope) that the show isn't worth the trouble. I say this not knowing who is responsible for security on the floor outside of the dealers.

coppercoins

I'm not sure whether this crook is the one I know about, there were at least two caught at the show. One of the two my girlfriend caught while sitting at the table watching the crowd. He was at Wayne Herndon's table lifting coins.

ahooka454

thats crazy,

hey's got some nice coins on his website.

this guy from my hometown has really got me fired up. i really hate theives...

droopyd

<< <i>Oh by the way, I was given a moment to talk to Lucas. I asked him how and he blamed it on me and simply told me it was obvious I did not care about my coins and I made it to easy.. >>



That was the m.o. of the thief in the novel "Hotel" -- people would be careless with their hotel keys and he'd swoop right in. I suspect this happens countless times a day in businesses throughout the country.