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Your #1 pick of any player who ever played football
Publius
Posts: 1,305
Sorry, not really PSA registry topic so forgive me, but I thought it was pretty interesting.
My wife got me this 3 DVD set of the football HOF for my B-day and Ive been watching it for the last few days.
One of the topics is this, they interviewed all of the HOF football players (they could) and asked them if you had to pick one player from any era who has ever played football to build your team around, who would it be. In other words, who is the best football player ever, as ranked among hall of fame football players.
some of the answers below
Gene upshaw... picked.... bronko nagurski
bill willis ........marion motley
charley trippi.....steve van buren
eric dickerson.......dick night train lane
charley taylor.......bobby bell
bob st. clair......gino marchetti
gino marchetti..........lenny moore
lee roy selmon.....walter payton.
mel blount.....gayle sayers
gayle sayers.....dick butkus and deacon jones
paul warfiled...dick butkus
bob griese.....paul warfield
don maynard...joseph namath
roger staubach..........tony dorsett
tony dorsett.........roger staubach
franco harris and chuck noll..........joe greene
larry little, dwight stephenson, don shula.......dan marino
bill dudley...........sammy baugh
mike haynes, mel renfro, bill walsh............joe montana
frank gatski.........otto graham
lenny moore, sam huff..........john unitas
willie lanier, ronnie lott, frank gifford, leroy kelly, paul krause.......jim brown
So John Unitas received the most votes of any quarterback, the player that received the most votes of any player was Jim Brown.
What are your picks?
My wife got me this 3 DVD set of the football HOF for my B-day and Ive been watching it for the last few days.
One of the topics is this, they interviewed all of the HOF football players (they could) and asked them if you had to pick one player from any era who has ever played football to build your team around, who would it be. In other words, who is the best football player ever, as ranked among hall of fame football players.
some of the answers below
Gene upshaw... picked.... bronko nagurski
bill willis ........marion motley
charley trippi.....steve van buren
eric dickerson.......dick night train lane
charley taylor.......bobby bell
bob st. clair......gino marchetti
gino marchetti..........lenny moore
lee roy selmon.....walter payton.
mel blount.....gayle sayers
gayle sayers.....dick butkus and deacon jones
paul warfiled...dick butkus
bob griese.....paul warfield
don maynard...joseph namath
roger staubach..........tony dorsett
tony dorsett.........roger staubach
franco harris and chuck noll..........joe greene
larry little, dwight stephenson, don shula.......dan marino
bill dudley...........sammy baugh
mike haynes, mel renfro, bill walsh............joe montana
frank gatski.........otto graham
lenny moore, sam huff..........john unitas
willie lanier, ronnie lott, frank gifford, leroy kelly, paul krause.......jim brown
So John Unitas received the most votes of any quarterback, the player that received the most votes of any player was Jim Brown.
What are your picks?
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I say Butkus (even being a Packer fan)
I don't think he's the best player of all time, but if I had to start my team with one player I might as well take the most durable player of all time. Not to mention you save a little cap space on back up QB's
Most talented player all time -
1) Jim Brown
1a) Jerry Rice
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Doug
<< <i>Tom Brady without question >>
Paul...with all due respect......YOUR CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hard question to answer because football has changed so much over the years. I think Jim Brown was one of the rare players who could have dominated in any era. Sammy Baugh was one of the greatest quarterbacks, defensive backs, and punters...hard to pass up someone who could dominate in three areas of the football. In regards to being a champion...I would go with Otto Graham...he led the Browns to 10 straight championship games....winning 7 of them. Damn...can't choose just one......if I had too..I think I would go with Graham......he was a true class act and true champion. I have read alot about the Browns in those years...and all of the players credit Graham as being THE main reason for their success.
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Titans walked the Earth in those days.
<< <i>Messers Lott, Gifford, Kelly, Krause and Sugar Bear had it right. Mr. Brown is the answer, with Johnny U an oh-so-close second.
Titans walked the Earth in those days. >>
Great minds think alike....... Jim Brown all day in any era. Toughness, speed, power, determination. Highest avg. per rush, averaged most yards rushing per game, also has one of the highest TD's per game ratio too. Did this while playing in the best Football era. Pretty hard to top. Left the game on his own terms, at the very top.
A Deacon Jones head slap would send most of them crying "Foul"
A crushing blow from Butkus while he trys to twist your head off. (Career Over)
A "Nighttrain" Lane forearm knockout means your recievers don't get a Free pass to run untouched anywhere on the field.
A Chuck Bennerick close line and you get a free ride on the strecher ( ask Frank Gifford)
There's NO: Tempature controled Domes, Helmet mics, digital photos of every play, heated benches, gator-Aid, steroids, MRI's and whatever other Hi-Tec devices they use today.
Blood & Guts and Heart & Soul and the Love for the Game was what motivated the Games true Legends, Not Money.
If I am going to build a team around one player (There are many great ones to choose from: Unitas,Starr, Baugh) But my choice would be for my boyhood hero..... "Captain Comeback!" "The Dodger!"
ROGER STAUBACH
A true Field General, For a decade Roger always had the Cowboys in the Championship and or Super Bowl. He always played with blood & Guts honor and was not ONLY a true Football hero, but an American hero. The Fabled 1972 Undeated Dolphins? Roger and "Doomsday" destroy that exact Team in the 71 Super Bowl and If not for "Jackie's Agony" Roger would have single handlely been responsible for breaking up that 70's Steelers' dynasty.
He was the greatest player Ive ever seen.
perkdog I think Brady is a great QB, but i think his offensive line is even better. Every time I watch the Patriots play Brady has all day back there. The patriots offensive line is the best in the league and that's where it all starts, if only someone could tell that to the bears gm.
second.....What a wife...I only get shirts for my BD
Hands down no question no doubt....jim brown
Having not seen the guys from the 50's and 60's and some of the 70's I can't say with true confidence about the other players from that era...but have seen films of jimmy destroying all those in front of him. Even though they all knew who was getting the ball. Who today could do that. Defenses would shift tactics to try to beat a premier player. Hand the ball to LT every play year after year and see if his stats stay the same....I don't think so!!!!!!!!!
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
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1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
1952 Topps Collector.
<< <i>And one more thing....look at the list. HOF players who had picked a top man...all picked for the most part someone whom they played their carears with...colts picked a colt...jet a jet....... >>
Jay,
Its funny you say that. The announcer noticed they picked the familiar as well, Staubach picked Dorsett and vice versa.
I had thought I would pick Manning until I read Jasons post. While watching alot of these hightlights, 5 hours worth by the way, the one thing I noticed is what Jason pointed out, just how rough it was back then. Deacon Jones head slap, he takes alot of pride in that, Butkus spitting on people, stomping on peoples hands, Chaz Bednarik clothesline (the Gifford video was great). To be honest, just how many people tackled the runners by the head, its amazing guys careers lasted 10+ years.
So I had thought about how a Manning, Montana or Brady would have torn apart defenses of old, think about how much they know about the game, how to read defenses etc, but then again, how long would Brady last against Butkus?
How athletic is Butkus compared to say Urlacher or LT of today.
I think pound for pound, the Jim Brown videos impressed me. It was funny, Deacon Jones was saying how he hated it when he would tackle Brown, and he would get up and say "nice tackle David" He said he would give him the hardest hit he ever gave, Brown would jump up, compliment him, run to the huddle and get the next handoff.
So Im picking Jimmy Brown for being the best running back in the time of monster defenses.
Dick Butkus/ "D"
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Joe
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
nuff said---just watch the video
Fred Taylor Vs. Steelers
Ok, so that's a homer pick..lol
History of the game? Its a no brainer Jim Brown...For those picking Barry, I understand why but you really should go to the library and rent Jim Brown's greatest hits DVD...The king of the 2 yard loss can't hold a candle to Jimmy Brown...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Barry Going Backwards
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I always thought Bo Jackson was an unbelievable player, but I've never seen Jim Brown play. >>
Its a shame that players who played before 1970 are so often overlooked..Here's a pretty good video of Jim Brown and Gale Sayers..Two of the very best to ever wear the uniform...
Barry is in the conversation of top 5 RBs, but greatest player in NFL history? And he never won a thing?
Jim Brown and Gale Sayers
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Those Jim Brown/ Gale Sayers video clips gave me goosebumps!! It also slammed the the door on the Barry Sanders debate. I love Barry and he was a spectacular player, but Im sorry, the all-time leader in yards lost from scrimmage is just not in the same league as Brown and Sayers. I gotta go watch them Sayers clips again!!
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Butkus
1957 Topps PSA
1961 Fleer SGC
I started watching NFL games in 1970, since that time the most exciting players to watch running the ball have been B. Sanders and OJ in my opinion.
To say Barry's greatness is undermined by his rushing losses is to say that Brett Favre is not one of the best ever because he's thrown the most INT's in Football history. With all greatness comes risk and reward. I'll take the 10 yard rushing losses of Sanders along with his 20 yard gains everytime. Let's face it Sanders played for mediocre teams and for the most part with average lineman. His running style was unique and many times he darted his way out of his running lanes and his blockers openings but he was a blast to watch. He was the most elusive back to ever play the game. Plus he left the game on top like Jim Brown. Had he stuck around and played another 5 years, Emmitt (no knock on him either) would still be trailing Barry by a couple of thousand rushing yards. I wonder how many titles and Super Bowl rings Sanders' would've had if he ran behind Emmitt's line too? I'm sure just as many as Smith has.
Going by pre 1970 footage I would have to say Jimmy Brown was the best ever. It's too bad Sayers really only had five years to star.
The Reggie Bush/Gale Sayers comparisions that were made last year were a joke. Reggie Bush and Joe Washington maybe.
A couple of other runners to check out are Ollie Matson and Willie Galimore from the 1950's and early 60's. Some of their runs are a thing of beauty.
<< <i>I think the best football player ever was Jim Brown. The one I would want to build a team around, I would probably take Montana or Butkus. >>
I'd agree with that about Brown, and I'd take Montana to build a football team around - he was a stone cold winner.
Bo Jackson honorable mention
<< <i>No doubt the clips of Jimmy Brown and GALE Sayers were spectacular, but in all fairness I'm sure someone could put together as much unreal footage of Barry Sanders' greatest runs set to music and we could all marvel at his talents too. >>
Amen to that brother.
Greg M.
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<< <i>
<< <i>No doubt the clips of Jimmy Brown and GALE Sayers were spectacular, but in all fairness I'm sure someone could put together as much unreal footage of Barry Sanders' greatest runs set to music and we could all marvel at his talents too. >>
>>
There are tons of Barry highlight films out there...No doubt, he has some of the best highlight runs ever...If I wanted to pick a guy who would give my team the best highlight reels every week it would be Barry Sanders and maybe Deion Sanders..But if I wanted to WIN a championship it would be Jimmy Brown...
The one argument that I always think is untrue/unfair about Barry is how bad his line was and how much better he would have been running behind the Cowboys line..What no one ever seems to mention is that maybe, possibly Barry's line looked bad BECAUSE of Barry's running style? How long are guys supposed to sustain blocks without holding? There are MANY MANY occasions that the Lions O-line opened quick holes for Barry that Barry chose not to hit...How many times were his linemen blocking for a running play to the right only to have Barry cut back left and lose 3 or 4 yards?? When the Cowboys line opened a hole, Emmitt HIT the hole. That was Emmitts biggest strength, explosion within the first 2-3 steps after the handoff..Barry's strength was elusiveness, and while it propelled him to the HOF, it was a detriment to his team..How many 3rd and 9's did the Lions get strapped with because Barry didn't break a 20+ yarder?
Yes Barry was great...Mr. excitement because you never knew if he was going to get -3 or 53 on any given run..When Jim Brown got the ball you knew what you were getting..In some cases he was as big as the DL and LBs trying to tackle him..He could run over, through, around, it didn't matter..Check his TD total vs. Barry's...Barry got taken out near the goal line because he couldn't get the tough yards..He also wasn't a good presence in the locker room and didn't do anything to make those around him any better like a Joe Montana did..
To each his own..I understand why fans who don't know anything about the game of football pre-70s or 80's would pick Barry..He's likely the best RB from the 80s-90s era..But to put him as the greatest in history to build a team around is just crazy...To me, its a slap in the face to the history of the game when a guy with over 1,000 in negative yardage who never won a championship is selected as the best to ever wear a uniform...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I love the Otto Graham pick. Tough to pick against a guy who just wins, and wins, and wins...
Jim Brown, though he played long before my time, certainly has his fans. I've heard the same about Sayers and Campbell as well. The thing I always wonder is how much of that is because that's when those folks were growing up and saw these guys play. I mean no disrespect by that comment at all, but hear me out if you would.
I grew up watching MJ, and athletically, I think the guy could have done just about anything, in any field he had chosen. I would argue he was the greatest basketball player of all time. Some of the "kids" these days would take Kobe or Lebron and they argue that one of them is "the best ever". I listened to older guys who would take Bird, Magic, Mikan or Chamberlain or Jabbar. I have no argument because I didn't watch them play on a regular basis.
I loved watching Walter and Barry run, and with all due respect to Emmitt, I'd take either of them over him. If I had grown up watching Jimmy, Sayers or Campbell, would I have a different opinion? Seems I would based on the votes that they get from the folks of that era. It's so tough to compare players between eras.
So my answer is....
Walter Payton and... Hmm. Lawrence Taylor was great, Ronnie Lott was a beast too. I can't pick a defensive player.
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But I agree, if you didn't see much or know much about them, how can you choose them?
It's a shame that the "vintage" football guys aren't remembered in the same way the "vintage" baseball guys are...Every year it seems the next "Greatest ever" comes around in football..Peyton Manning, Favre, Tom Brady..Some say Tomlinson, some say Devin Hester, so even say Adrian Peterson who hasn't even completed an entire season...In baseball, it doesnt matter how many home runs are hit, rarely does anyone take Babe Ruth off the greatest ever plateau..
In the same way that its tough to choose someone you don't know much about, you really don't have a leg to stand on if you are debating for modern guys without knowing the players you are putting them in front of...
I'd take Walter Payton over Barry Sanders as well..He was a more complete, every down, dependable player than Barry...No he couldn;t stop on a dime and restart at full speed...No he couldn't break defenders ankles like Barry...But everything else he did..He did it better...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Lawrence Taylor was great...No one had ever seen the burst and quickness off the edge like that..But he had his weaknesses, and I don't know that I would build a team around an OLB...Guys like Nitschke, Dick Lane, Butkus, were all evil, wicked, mean and nasty..They were allowed to be back in those days...Playing now, all 3 would be fined/suspended every year for flagrant penalties..lol
For me, I'd want a premium DE. A pass rusher and a run stuffer..A monster who could totally disrupt a game plan...
My choice- Reggie White
I don't ever remember a weakness in his game...He could speed rush, spin move, bull rush..Guy was a beast and was also a great run stuffer.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
You were born in 1972??? You're only 2 years older than me...for whatever reason, I thought you were much older (must be because of the wisdom you bestow on the boards on a daily basis...).
As for all time defensive player, I'd have to say Deacon Jones. He was an absolute animal and was likely the best DE of all time.
Greg M.
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I don't know that I'd call Barry Sanders the best RB of all time. If you put a gun to my head, I'm pretty sure I'd say Jim Brown every time.
So I'd still pick Barry, even though I think Brown was better. I might even pick Manning ahead of both of them. He plays the most important position, and the guy was groomed for greatness from the time he first held a football. He struggled a few games with Harrison out this year, and a lot of people said he couldn't win without him, but he's done a great job recently. Of course there was going to be an adjustment period when you're missing one of the best receivers of all time.
As for defense, I'll just go with guys who I saw play. LT, Reggie White and Lott.
Defense - Ray Lewis (In his prime, not now. He was not just great, he brought the best out of the rest of his team. They won a Super Bowl with almost no offense.)
As a Colts fan, just an honorable mention to Johnny U, Peyton Manning, Bubba Smith, Bert Jones, Eric Dickerson, and Lenny Moore)
If you go back at my two previous posts, I did say I thought Jim Brown was the BEST PLAYER ever and the best running back ever. There's no doubt in my mind.
I tried to break it into era's, pre 1970 and post 1970.
The reason I commented about Barry Sanders was that you dissed him as a detriment to having a winning team with all his losses of yardage. Which I think is short sighted. I would call his offensive lines over the years merely average. I'm basing that on pro bowl and all-pro appearances and the fact that pretty much not a single lineman of Barry's during his playing days were ever considered one of the top guys at their positions. Unless you count Lomas Brown!
Emmitt's line was considered the best in Football by many experts for about a seven year period during Emmitt's peak years and the Cowboys three Super Bowl win years. So yeah, I think Sanders would have even better stats if he would've run behind the great Dallas lines in those days. Maybe an extra 1500 yards added to his career totals. But this is all just supposing and we'll never know.
Sure Barry ran outside his blocking lanes, made many cutbacks with abandon, but do you really think he was that poor at reads and seeing holes that he would do these 'individual' moves to just pad his stats? I think he was a great running back and very unique. No one ran like him before or after. If he didn't see a hole he created a new one himself. Three yards and a cloud of dust type of runner he wasn't. He's one of the very few players that fan's would gladly pay to go see perform his on the field magic.
The thing holding Detroit back all those years he played there were bad QB's and some very bad drafts.
Even with all of Sanders' losses he still avearged 1500+ yards per year and had a 5.0 avg. per carry. No one else is Football history can make claim to that. Not Emmitt, not Payton, not even Jim Brown. If we look at per game averages, which I really feel is the right way to rank players, Barry's at the top or second to Jim Brown in every category except TD's.
Yeah, I'll give you some goal line carries were not given to him (see Tommy Vardell) , but he still scored 99 rushing TD's in 10 years(which still ranks 9th all-time). Not too shabby.
Stat lines:
Sanders: 153 games, 3062 Att., 15,269 yards, 5.0 avg. gain, 99.8 yards per game, 99 TD's, only 41 fumbles, 30.9 att./rush. TD.
Payton: 190 games, 3838 att., 16726 yards, 4.4 avg, 88.0 ypg, 110 TD's and a whopping 86 fumbles, 34.9 att./rush TD.
Emmitt Smith: 226 games, 4409 att., 18335 yards, 4.2 avg., 81.2 ypg, 164 TD's, only 61 fumbles, 26.9 att/rush TD.
Jim Brown: 118 games, 2359 Att., 12312 yards, 5.2 avg, 104.3 ypg., 106 TD's, 57 fumbles, 22.2 att./rush TD.
I'm not ranking these guys, but Sanders actually averaged fewer carries per rushing TD than Walter Payton, yet Sanders gets a bad rap for not scoring TD's which is totally untrue looking at the numbers.
Jim Brown admitted himself he was a terrible blocker and old footage of his games clearly shows this.
Payton fumbled a lot.
Emmitt Smith's average per carry is just 0.2 above the average for all teams which is usually right around 4.0 across the NFL.
Barry Sanders wasn't a disciplined enough runner to follow his blockers and had the most losses by rushing in a career.
We can sit here and debate this, but every runner in NFL history has a weakness.
Some old-timers might even call Steve Van Buren the best back ever.
Best 'complete' running back might be Payton when you factor in sheer toughness, durability, and blocking into the equation.
At the end of the day, I'd still pick Jim Brown and have a fullback pick up the blitzers on pass plays, lol.
Rich
His QBs werent great, but they still passed quite a bit..Herman Moore was a consistent 100+ catch WR, so defenses didn't always stack the box to stop Barry..His YPC average being high is great, BUT that is mostly gained from his long breakaway runs that he was probably the best in history at. His typical runs: 3 yards, -1, 12, -2, 0, 2, 6, -3, 0, 55...average those out its 7.2 per carry..2 first downs out of all that...
As far as Jim Brown goes, no need to pass if he is on the team...I doubt he blocked more than a few times a year...lol
I have no problem at all with anyone putting Barry in the top 5 RBs of all-time..Its just when he starts being placed above guys like Jim Brown and Walter Payton that he starts becoming over rated..He was great at what he did..And you're right, unique style of running..Was great for the highlight films, but the only time he was helping his team win was when he was breaking a long run for TD...We love to say his teams were bad, but they went to the playoffs more than a few times...Its wasn't just the Barry Sanders show, although he's the only highlight film guy they had..
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>How many HOF's were on the Lions teams of Sanders era and the Browns teams of Jim Brown era or Emmit Smith's Cowboy era? It is flawed logic to make an attack on Sanders by saying he had good enough players around him to win championships when clearly he did not. Teams did gear up to stop him, it is more correct to say that Moore got 100 plus catches a year because of Sanders as they were cleary trying to stop him not the QB and WR's. Blaming 1 player for not leading a team to a championship is a really bad argument in a game such as football. To say Sanders should have made his players better around him is an argument you cannot support or deny, how do you quantify it? Quotes from his coaching staff? Hearsay from teammates? Media reports? All of these can be biased, but his level of play on Sunday's was enough proof to me. I think the only thing against Sanders was in the way he retired. >>
Apples and oranges....So we should downgrade how great Jim Brown was because he played with better teammates than Barry?? That doesn't make sense either...I base my assessment of Barry Sanders on what I saw on the field every Sunday... He was the best pure runner of his era..No one before or since could make the moves and cuts that Barry made...But his style hurt his team a much as it helped..His line got a bad rap because they didn;t hold blocks for 15 seconds while Barry danced around to try and figure out where he wanted to go...They went to the playoffs numerous times and Barry never made a splash in their biggest games...
If Barry Sanders is the greatest player you've ever seen put on an NFL jersey, you simply haven't seen or watched enough football prior to 1989...He's likely the best RB in the league since 1989, but not all time..And it isn't even close...He is the quintessential STYLE over SUBSTANCE...Everyone got enamored with his ESPN "Primetime" highlights, that rarely showed any of his many BAD plays...There is a reason he is the all-time leader in negative yardage runs in the NFL, and it is NOT because of his O-line..If you have a bad line, then it makes even LESS sense to not hit the first hole rather than depend on your "bad" line to sustain blocks when they have no clue what play you are running...
Did you get a chance to view this:
Barry's Backward Runs
Listen to the interviews, some from his very own teammates...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>So we should downgrade how great Jim Brown was because he played with better teammates than Barry?? >>
Yes, we should put it into context. It's a team game and his team had more good players on it so it makes sense they won more games and championships. I doubt even the great Jim Brown could go 1 on 11.
<< <i>If Barry Sanders is the greatest player you've ever seen put on an NFL jersey, you simply haven't seen or watched enough football prior to 1989 >>
You like making attacks on what you think someone has or hasn't done (strawman). Do you know how much I have watched? Since I don't agree with you, you reached the conclusion I obviously have not done as much watching or know as much as you regardless of evidence. That is not really debating that is name calling. I personally don't like that as that is what most internet debates turn into but it isn't an effective debat strategy.
Most of your reasoning for kicking on Barry is personal opinion such as
<< <i>He is the quintessential STYLE over SUBSTANCE >>
<< <i>Listen to the interviews, some from his very own teammates >>
<< <i>Everyone got enamored with his ESPN "Primetime" highlights, that rarely showed any of his many BAD plays >>
These again are all opinions that could be biased. Your one stat you use for showing his ineffectiveness is he is the all time leader in plays that lose yarddage from scrimmage but cardbender presented some other stats that show how he was more effective than many of the backs you rate above him. I don't prescribe to that stats by themselves prove anything but in this case I think Barry looks very good in the discussion of greatest of all time.
The short answer could be Jim Brown, which I don't really disagree with but to say in your round about way that it's stupid to think Sanders could be the greatest of all time is flawed.
Not sure exactly what you are looking for here..I've seen Barry Sanders play, I've watched tons of footage on Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Marion Motley, etc, etc. I'm not saying I know anymore than you, just that TYPICALLY (not pointing fingers at any one person) when people name Barry Sanders as the greatest player in the history of the game it is 99.999% of the time they simply don't have all of the necessary information to make that assumption.
If you are saying that you've watched as much game footage as I have of the pre-70s players and you still believe Barry is the greatest ever, I would REALLY be interested in reading exactly how you came to that conclusion. Although in the end, it's still going to be a matter of opinion, I can't honestly say that I've met or talked to anyone that has watched most if not all of the all-time greats and still puts Barry as the best ever...
If you don't think Barry is THE greatest ever, but is one of the top 5 RBs ever, then I'm not sure what we are debating here, because that is exactly what I believe. Each one of us is entitled to our own opinions on players, and that is what makes the "greatest ever" type debates fun...But if you are going to chime in with a modern player simply because you don't have a complete picture of the older guys, then you should state that when you post as many other guys here did.
My "kicking" of Barry was out of the #1 spot, down to a top 3-5 spot..Please don't infer otherwise..I've seen enough of Barry to rate him most definitely as one of the top 5 ever...To say he was anyless would be foolish...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.