I just got my first eBay negative -- from seller: ellison_enterprises
jonathanb
Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭✭✭
After 9 1/2 years and 800+ feedback, I just got my first negative. Oh, well.
I bought a medal from seller ellison_enterprises, paying less than $15 including shipping. He described the medal as silver, when it was truly some sort of white metal. He said the (unpictured) reverse was blank, which was mostly true if you didn't count the huge gouges. He didn't mention the rim dings. I decided that I didn't want to give him a chance to sell the same item to someone else, so I left the negative to reinforce the other item-not-as-described negatives that he had received.
If you think that accurate descriptions are important, you might want to avoid seller ellison_enterprises.
(Isn't there supposed to be a time limit after which you can't leave feedback? He left me retaliatory negative feedback today (12/8) for an item that closed 7/23.)
Bummer for me.
I bought a medal from seller ellison_enterprises, paying less than $15 including shipping. He described the medal as silver, when it was truly some sort of white metal. He said the (unpictured) reverse was blank, which was mostly true if you didn't count the huge gouges. He didn't mention the rim dings. I decided that I didn't want to give him a chance to sell the same item to someone else, so I left the negative to reinforce the other item-not-as-described negatives that he had received.
If you think that accurate descriptions are important, you might want to avoid seller ellison_enterprises.
(Isn't there supposed to be a time limit after which you can't leave feedback? He left me retaliatory negative feedback today (12/8) for an item that closed 7/23.)
Bummer for me.
0
Comments
Hmmmmm,
bob
I left feedback based on the false description in the original listing. That wouldn't have changed even if he accepted the return, and it would have been really harsh to give negative feedback after making him eat the return also.
This is a very high-volume seller. My guess is that someone else writes the descriptions, and that he never sees the items that he's selling. That's the only way I can explain the obvious errors in the listing that took me, and the similar complaints that others left for him.
jonathan
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
-Paul
before sending the zinger. I have had some sticky situations
that worked out OK, but it took a little discussion and compromise.
Camelot
Successful forum transactions: jessewvu, nankraut, tootawl, levinll, mistercoinman, metalsman, adamlaneus, chuckc, fivecents, kingplatinum, jdimmick, waterzooey, moderncoinmart, bige, steelielee,
<< <i>Always try to work out a problem before sending the zinger >>
I also thought they had 90 days to give FBs.
Remember, the seller has other negative feedback for items not as described. Yes, I should have paid more attention to other the negative feedback before bidding. But surely that doesn't make my complaints less valid?
FWIW, i did check his eariler feedback before leaving mine, and I would have contacted him at least with a "what'sup" if it didn't seem clear that this was his normal business practice. But if this is his normal business practice, then people should know about it...
<< <i>(Isn't there supposed to be a time limit after which you can't leave feedback? He left me retaliatory negative feedback today (12/8) for an item that closed 7/23.) >>
That's odd. I thought it was ninety days.
<< <i>gecko109, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think it applies in this situation. I left negative feedback because I feel that the seller sold an item using a false/misleading/whatever description. Can you suggest anything that would have resolved that problem? I was not complaining about being overcharged; he charged what I bid, plus a reasonable shipping charge.
Remember, the seller has other negative feedback for items not as described. Yes, I should have paid more attention to other the negative feedback before bidding. But surely that doesn't make my complaints less valid?
FWIW, i did check his eariler feedback before leaving mine, and I would have contacted him at least with a "what'sup" if it didn't seem clear that this was his normal business practice. But if this is his normal business practice, then people should know about it... >>
Are you 100% sure that it wasnt an oversight in the listing? Possibly a mistake? You said he is a "very high volume" dealer. Mistakes and ommissions happen in high volume business. Im the very first person in line to call a scumbag a scumbag...if it is deserved. Even if you suspect that he intentionally misrepresented the item, you should ask for a refund and maybe leave a neutral as long as everything went smoothly. You tell us about how you "saved" the numismatic community by taking a $15 junk medal off the market with the same emphasis as a judge says he is taking a drug dealer off the streets. A simple return, along with neutral feedback, and one line "item not as described" would have had the same warning effect you desired. And thats the proper way to handle a transaction you arent happy with on ebay.
<< <i> I left the negative to reinforce the other item-not-as-described negatives that he had received.
>>
I don't see that in his feedback.
<< <i>Are you 100% sure that it wasnt an oversight in the listing? Possibly a mistake? >>
Define oversight. Define mistake. To me, forgetting to describe the reverse at all is an oversight and a mistake. And common enough, fwiw. But he described this piece as "It has a plain back", and he managed not to mention anything else about the back. This is the back in question. You can decide what term to use:
<< <i>You said he is a "very high volume" dealer. Mistakes and ommissions happen in high volume business. Im the very first person in line to call a scumbag a scumbag...if it is deserved. Even if you suspect that he intentionally misrepresented the item, you should ask for a refund and maybe leave a neutral as long as everything went smoothly. ... A simple return, along with neutral feedback, and one line "item not as described" would have had the same warning effect you desired. And thats the proper way to handle a transaction you arent happy with on ebay. >>
I guess you're saying that a neutral is better than a negative. Linguistically, of course you're right. In the eBay world, they've always seemed pretty much equivalent to me. I'll have to think about that.
<< <i> A simple return, along with neutral feedback, and one line "item not as described" would have had the same warning effect you desired. And thats the proper way to handle a transaction you arent happy with on ebay. >>
Neutral feedback is usually greeted with a retalitory neg.
In response to the hypothetical about the $1500 item... Well, I'm afraid I don't buy a whole lot of $1500 items. But I've definitely swallowed my share of $100 items. I can think of three for sure (including two in the last couple of months -- aagh), and there may have been more. The difference is that I left positive feedback in each of those cases, because I felt that the sellers described the items accurately (and did all of the other appropriate seller stuff, like shipping on time). It's not the seller's fault when I mis-read a picture, and the seller shouldn't lose the sale because of my mistake as a bidder. I don't consider eBay to be an approval service. I don't bid on something unless I plan on keeping it, and if I make a mistake in my bidding, that's my problem and nobody else's. I know that I'm unusual for that, but that's on me. When I feel that the seller has been intentionally misleading, I put that on him.
As it happens, my worst eBay experience really was with a $1500 item (I think the actually number was $1510 and change). I bid on a junk silver lot listed (in three separate places in the listing) as containing 3000 items, and the seller delivered only 2000. No response to emails. No response to phone calls. I filed a police report and got a refund after 6 months or so. That's not really the same as this case because I was 100% ready to believe that one was an honest mistake (at least before I found out that he wouldn't respond to emails and phone calls). I was happy enough with what he did deliver, and all I ever wanted was a $500 refund for the 1/3 of the total that he didn't deliver. So I guess the answer to your question is: If the seller described the item accurately and I bid $1500 through my own stupidity, then yes, I would have swallowed it. Since he tried to defraud, then not. If nothing else, this latest case says that I'm consistent no matter what the dollar value...
I'll think about what seems to be your main argument, that a neutral would have been more appropriate if he had given a refund. I'm not sure I buy that, but I'll think about it.
jonathan
The seller peddles a variety of junk, sort of like a high volume garage sale. Not a lot of coins or medals, at least recently. Maybe the seller will learn to disclose more in the future.
After all, it is supposed to be "feedback", isn't it?
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Then claim you didn't ask.
<< <i>I guess you're saying that a neutral is better than a negative. Linguistically, of course you're right. In the eBay world, they've always seemed pretty much equivalent to me. I'll have to think about that. >>
Usually, a neutral will get you a retaliatory negative.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This seller seems to have a history of misrepresentation, and his return policy is in micro font you need a loupe to read. Why did you buy from this seller? You seem to have plenty of Ebay experience and probably read his feedback. Even tho seller is on the shady side, to Neg without offering a chance at resolving any issues, I think you were wrong to neg. In MY OPINION and MY opinion only, any buyer that would neg me WITHOUT even trying to resolve an issue deserves a neg right back.
The ability to leave feedback after 90 days is a new one to me, thats for sure.
I believe you did the right thing and the seller deserved what he got.
<< <i>
<< <i>Are you 100% sure that it wasnt an oversight in the listing? Possibly a mistake? >>
Define oversight. Define mistake. To me, forgetting to describe the reverse at all is an oversight and a mistake. And common enough, fwiw. But he described this piece as "It has a plain back", and he managed not to mention anything else about the back. This is the back in question. You can decide what term to use:
<< <i>You said he is a "very high volume" dealer. Mistakes and ommissions happen in high volume business. Im the very first person in line to call a scumbag a scumbag...if it is deserved. Even if you suspect that he intentionally misrepresented the item, you should ask for a refund and maybe leave a neutral as long as everything went smoothly. ... A simple return, along with neutral feedback, and one line "item not as described" would have had the same warning effect you desired. And thats the proper way to handle a transaction you arent happy with on ebay. >>
I guess you're saying that a neutral is better than a negative. Linguistically, of course you're right. In the eBay world, they've always seemed pretty much equivalent to me. I'll have to think about that. >>
<< <i>To me, forgetting to describe the reverse at all is an oversight and a mistake. And common enough, fwiw. But he described this piece as "It has a plain back", and he managed not to mention anything else about the back. >>
Well now, what is it? Did he not explain the back or not?? You can't have it both ways.
I will do business with an Ebay seller who has a maximum of one negative per 100 positive, so based on this, you could get 7 more negatives and I'd still do business with you!!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Jim
you probably should have asked for a picture of the reverse. without that, i would expect you to be suspicious and avoid the item and the seller. when the medal arrived and it was a dog, you probably should have returned it if you were unsatisfied. by keeping it you sort of dismissed all the negative reinforcment yet posted the negative anyway, sort of wanting to have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too.
my read is a buyer who kept an item and sort of retaliated. that just seems wrong no matter how noble your reasoning may have been to save other buyers. if the seller is shady, he'll just screw others with other items. you have saved noone since the majority of bidders don't check feedback past the %%% under the sellers ID.
<< <i>I didn't return the item. For less than $15, I ate the cost rather than return it to him and let him fool someone else. I still have it. I don't know what I'll do with it, except leave it as a case study in my "mistakes to learn from" archive.
I left feedback based on the false description in the original listing. That wouldn't have changed even if he accepted the return, and it would have been really harsh to give negative feedback after making him eat the return also.
This is a very high-volume seller. My guess is that someone else writes the descriptions, and that he never sees the items that he's selling. That's the only way I can explain the obvious errors in the listing that took me, and the similar complaints that others left for him.
jonathan >>
Jonathan,I've been a Power Seller for over 8 1/2 Years with Nearly 2,000 Positives and only one Negative left intentionally years ago.Having said that,I feel that If someone is not happy with their Item,The right thing to do is contact the Seller and see what he will or will not offer as a Resolution. The seller at Least deserves a Chance to make things Right. All of us Long Time sellers,at one time or Another have had a transaction or two along the way that just does'nt go as Planned,but Communication is The Key here. I have,in some cases refunded Everything including Shipping If someone was unhappy with their Purchase. Furthermore, If you already Saw the Feedback History of this Seller and were not comfortable with what you saw, You probably should have Passed on the Item. I've had People ask me Questions from time to time that i could just "Feel" were going to be trouble and I reply that they PLEASE, Consider what they are asking,what they expect and If they're not comfortable,DON'T BID! Also,contrary to what's been posted in some messages on the Forum, Getting E-Bay to REMOVE a negative only happens under certain RIGID guidelines which are spelled out Clearly. I've been Told on the Phone By E-Bay Rep's that if a certain seller neg's me (for example, i had a Non-Paying bidder on a $650.00 coin set,who later wrote to E-Bay that they had no money after using Buy it Now),That E-Bay would remove it!! WRONG!! I filled out everything while on the Phone with E-Bay customer Service and they Told me to NEG This person for Non- Payment and that they could NOT Neg me back! WRONG again! As soon as i left the Negative, I got one in Retaliation. I went back on The Phone to Feedback Investigation Specialist and found out The Feedback could NOT be removed except by "Mutual Feedback Withdrawal". I Finally gave in and Did that rather the have this person ruin my Reputation. If E-Bay Policy allows this, Shame on Them but i'm not going to take the Heat for their Screwed up Policy! Soo if you guys think, E-Bay told you they'll REMOVE a Negative for you.....Check it out carefully because it's all spelled out for you. If it's NOT witin those Guideline,you're stuck with it! This is your Transaction Jonathan and you may be right in your Opinion, but if the Seller is Not Given a chance to Make it Right, I think that's unfair on your Part. Just My Opinion,Ray in Florida..
<< <i>After 9 1/2 years and 800+ feedback, I just got my first negative. Oh, well.
I bought a medal from seller ellison_enterprises, paying less than $15 including shipping. He described the medal as silver, when it was truly some sort of white metal. He said the (unpictured) reverse was blank, which was mostly true if you didn't count the huge gouges. He didn't mention the rim dings. I decided that I didn't want to give him a chance to sell the same item to someone else, so I left the negative to reinforce the other item-not-as-described negatives that he had received.
If you think that accurate descriptions are important, you might want to avoid seller ellison_enterprises.
(Isn't there supposed to be a time limit after which you can't leave feedback? He left me retaliatory negative feedback today (12/8) for an item that closed 7/23.)
Bummer for me. >>
I have seen feedback left 6 months or more after the auction closed, you usually cannot go thru the normal channels but I do not remember the procedure right now.
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms
To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt
[L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
<< <i>I'm OK with the OP. At least he showed that he has a set.
The seller peddles a variety of junk, sort of like a high volume garage sale. Not a lot of coins or medals, at least recently. Maybe the seller will learn to disclose more in the future.
After all, it is supposed to be "feedback", isn't it? >>
This seller has 10 years on ebay with a 99.9 feedback rating after 10,000+ transactions.
So I guess the answer to your question is: If the seller described the item accurately and I bid $1500 through my own stupidity, then yes, I would have swallowed it. Since he tried to defraud, then not. If nothing else, this latest case says that I'm consistent no matter what the dollar value...
That was NOT my hypothetical question. Im asking if this particular transaction was $1,500 would you have done exactly the same thing you are doing now?
I have been on ebay for 10 years and have a 3000+ feedback score with no negatives. I try my best to grade all my collectibles ( I sell coins only rarely ) as conservatively as possible, describe all relevant flaws and be as fair as humanly possible.....yet mistakes which could eventually penalize my customers inadvertently happen. Just 3 days ago I sold a group of LP records which I thought were in near perfect condition. The album covers were in near mint for sure and my careful visual inspection of the vinyl surfaces showed them to be sparkling and with little or no abrasions. The buyer paid a fair price for this quality as I described. When the buyer received them he tried to play the records but could not do so. All were apparently very, very slightly warped ( not visibly to my eye ) from slight heat exposure and could not hold the needle on an audiphile phonograph in position. Thankfully, the buyer did not negative me reflexly with, "Seller sells warped records as "near mint" BEWARE!" or something like this. Rather they telephoned me and I expressed my dismay and offered an immediate refund for all their costs. The next day they received an Express Mail refund check in full....and 30 minutes after the post office tracking said they delivered the express mail letter I receive a POSITIVE comment from the buyer regarding our transaction.
I encourage buyers and sellers to be understanding, even in what may at first seem to be the most grievous and dismal of transactions. First try to resolve the problem and get all the facts before trouncing on someone. Of course, appropriate and well considered and deserving negative comments can always then be left after a reasonable period of resolution attempt.
Richard
<< <i>It sounds like you did not even give the seller a chance to make it right. He might have offered to pay for shipping both ways, but you did not give him the chance. >>
Exactly.
Negging a seller without even *attempting* to contact them first and seek resolution is just plain wrong. After almost 10 years on the Bay and almost 4,000 transactions, I've found that the vast majority of sellers do not deliberately mislead, and if given the opportunity will make it right for any mistakes.
I do want to thank the OP for posting to the world about this though, as it provided me the opportunity to add him to my blocked buyer list... he's a migraine waiting to happen.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>
<< <i>It sounds like you did not even give the seller a chance to make it right. He might have offered to pay for shipping both ways, but you did not give him the chance. >>
Exactly.
Negging a seller without even *attempting* to contact them first and seek resolution is just plain wrong. After almost 10 years on the Bay and almost 4,000 transactions, I've found that the vast majority of sellers do not deliberately mislead, and if given the opportunity will make it right for any mistakes.
I do want to thank the OP for posting to the world about this though, as it provided me the opportunity to add him to my blocked buyer list... he's a migraine waiting to happen. >>
One of the reasons I like posting here is because of the variety of experience among readers of the board. I've been in the wrong on some issues, and I've been in the right on some others, but the opinion of the board is usually unanimous and I've learned something when all is done.
This case was a little unusual. If I tally the comments correctly, there were 4 people who thought I was in the right, and 10 people who thought I was in the wrong, and there were strong feelings in both directions. (There were also 5 people who expressed condolences without an explicit right/wrong opinion, and another bunch of people that commented only on side issues). If you do your own tally you might get slightly different numbers, but that should be close. In any case, it's certainly "not unanimous", and there isn't just a single dissenter either.
Unless I missed something, I don't think that anyone defended the seller's original actions as part of the sales process. All of the negative comments seeem to focus on my failure to let the seller "make things right". Conveniently, that's pretty much the same decision that I'd come to myself after sleeping on it.
There's an old saying that goes something like, "Help is named by the person who gets it." That is to say, if you do something for someone else and they don't like it, then you didn't help them no matter what your intentions were. Here I decided that a negative and a neutral were the thing as far as the seller was concerned, and that contacting the seller would serve no purpose since the end result wasn't going to change. I agree that I was wrong to make that assumption. (There's another saying that says, "Assumptions are evil.") In fact this seller might consider negatives and neutrals to be equivalent, but then again he might not, and it's not up to me to decide for him. I wouldn't have changed the text of my feedback, but I should have given him a chance to "earn" a neutral rather than a negative.
So... even with a split opinion from the board, I've learned something anyway
Since I (now) agree that I contributed to the problem, I will contact the seller, point him to this thread, and tell him that would agree to "mutually withdraw the feedback" (or whatever eBay's terminology is) -- if *he* wants to. He might not want to withdraw it, and I'm fine with that also. I'm not going to guess his preferences, since that's where I got into problems in the first place.
I know that a thread doesn't become done just because the OP says so, but I appreciate the feedback. Thanks, all!
jonathan
To support LordM's European Trip, click here!
<< <i>This seller has a 99.9 positive with over 10,000 feedbacks. That means just 1 of every 1,000 of his customers is not happy. >>
You can't seriously believe that. It doesn't mean only one out of 1000 customers is unhappy. Many deserved negs are never left because the buyers fear retaliation, and this seller has a history of retaliation. He does not leave feedback until the buyer does, and if the buyer leaves a neg, the buyer gets a neg in return.
Russ, NCNE
I applaud you for taking one for the community. but did you think that you were going to leave one and not get one back?
Those people that think they can wait 89 days and 23 hrs and 59 minutes to leave feedback can get one on day 91. It is a fallacy, it just doesn't work.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>This seller has a 99.9 positive with over 10,000 feedbacks. That means just 1 of every 1,000 of his customers is not happy. >>
You can't seriously believe that. It doesn't mean only one out of 1000 customers is unhappy. Many deserved negs are never left because the buyers fear retaliation, and this seller has a history of retaliation. He does not leave feedback until the buyer does, and if the buyer leaves a neg, the buyer gets a neg in return.
Russ, NCNE >>
The buyer should NEVER leave a neg unless the seller is unwilling to remedy the situation. UNLESS there is some crazy "restock fee" that the seller insists on charging. And any way you slice it russ, 10 years on ebay, moving over 10,000 items and having a 99.9% feedback is STELLAR! As I stated before, you could be the most descriptive and honest dealer in the world, but sooner or later you will deal with a knucklehead buyer who is not happy no matter what. A negative is almost unavoidable when you have so many transactions. This dealer is not a "hit-and-run" artist. To neg him without trying to resolve the problem is wrong.
<< <i><< This seller has a 99.9 positive with over 10,000 feedbacks. That means just 1 of every 1,000 of his customers is not happy. >>
You can't seriously believe that. It doesn't mean only one out of 1000 customers is unhappy. Many deserved negs are never left because the buyers fear retaliation, and this seller has a history of retaliation. He does not leave feedback until the buyer does, and if the buyer leaves a neg, the buyer gets a neg in return.
Russ, NCNE >>
The buyer should NEVER leave a neg unless the seller is unwilling to remedy the situation. UNLESS there is some crazy "restock fee" that the seller insists on charging. And any way you slice it russ, 10 years on ebay, moving over 10,000 items and having a 99.9% feedback is STELLAR! As I stated before, you could be the most descriptive and honest dealer in the world, but sooner or later you will deal with a knucklehead buyer who is not happy no matter what. A negative is almost unavoidable when you have so many transactions. This dealer is not a "hit-and-run" artist. To neg him without trying to resolve the problem is wrong. >>
You typed a lot of words without addressing your original fallacious assertion. You should be a politician. Anybody who's done business on eBay for more than a week knows that the feedback system is a joke. If retaliatory feedback were banned, you'd see an entirely different picture.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i><< This seller has a 99.9 positive with over 10,000 feedbacks. That means just 1 of every 1,000 of his customers is not happy. >>
You can't seriously believe that. It doesn't mean only one out of 1000 customers is unhappy. Many deserved negs are never left because the buyers fear retaliation, and this seller has a history of retaliation. He does not leave feedback until the buyer does, and if the buyer leaves a neg, the buyer gets a neg in return.
Russ, NCNE >>
The buyer should NEVER leave a neg unless the seller is unwilling to remedy the situation. UNLESS there is some crazy "restock fee" that the seller insists on charging. And any way you slice it russ, 10 years on ebay, moving over 10,000 items and having a 99.9% feedback is STELLAR! As I stated before, you could be the most descriptive and honest dealer in the world, but sooner or later you will deal with a knucklehead buyer who is not happy no matter what. A negative is almost unavoidable when you have so many transactions. This dealer is not a "hit-and-run" artist. To neg him without trying to resolve the problem is wrong. >>
You typed a lot of words without addressing your original fallacious assertion. You should be a politician. Anybody who's done business on eBay for more than a week knows that the feedback system is a joke. If retaliatory feedback were banned, you'd see an entirely different picture.
Russ, NCNE >>
Russ, thats kind of the point. Had Jonathon notified the seller he was not happy, there most likely have been a refund and NOBODY would have gotten dinged. Do you get it now?