An imperfectly "original" coin...
MrEureka
Posts: 24,198 ✭✭✭✭✭
I recently bought this at auction. It has perfect original "old-time" toning, but the coin was cleaned more than 129 years ago. (An unnatural underlying sheen gives the coin away, but the deep toning masks it very well and there are no hairlines.) If you collected this series, would the cleaning prevent you from making the purchase?
It was cataloged as follows:
"Scotland. 4 Shillings 6 Pence Token by counterstamp Mc FIE LINDSAY & COy GREENOCK around 4/6 (with S incuse below) on 8 Reales 1791 F.M., Mexico. Bust / Crowned arms between 2 pillars. Allen 92; C./C./T. page 534, type 80, 646 (base coin); Davis 102; K./M. CC 58; Meili 37. Extremely rare Very fine
18 specimens recorded (2 in institutional collections). Ex Fonrobert Coll. 6422, ex Ulex Coll. 122, ex Norweb Coll. part 4, 1636, ex Brand Coll. - Mc Fie, Lindsay & Co were wholesale grocers at 3 William Street, Greenock, and listed there between 1815 and 1828. They were known for having invented and perfected a method of preserving fresh salmon. These countermarked Dollars were withdrawn during August 1828, silver now so plentiful that they are no longer required for the convenience of trade."
BTW, the Fonrobert Collection was sold by Alolph Weyl in Berlin in 1878. The Ulex Collection was sold by Lyman Low in 1902. Both were landmark auctions.
It was cataloged as follows:
"Scotland. 4 Shillings 6 Pence Token by counterstamp Mc FIE LINDSAY & COy GREENOCK around 4/6 (with S incuse below) on 8 Reales 1791 F.M., Mexico. Bust / Crowned arms between 2 pillars. Allen 92; C./C./T. page 534, type 80, 646 (base coin); Davis 102; K./M. CC 58; Meili 37. Extremely rare Very fine
18 specimens recorded (2 in institutional collections). Ex Fonrobert Coll. 6422, ex Ulex Coll. 122, ex Norweb Coll. part 4, 1636, ex Brand Coll. - Mc Fie, Lindsay & Co were wholesale grocers at 3 William Street, Greenock, and listed there between 1815 and 1828. They were known for having invented and perfected a method of preserving fresh salmon. These countermarked Dollars were withdrawn during August 1828, silver now so plentiful that they are no longer required for the convenience of trade."
BTW, the Fonrobert Collection was sold by Alolph Weyl in Berlin in 1878. The Ulex Collection was sold by Lyman Low in 1902. Both were landmark auctions.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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Old cleanings don't bother me too much, as long as the piece has retoned, no bad hairlines, and has a good look.
<< <i>Heck NO, the cleaning wouldn't prevent me from purchasing any coin with a pop of 18 and 16 in public hands. >>
Just a few known, and probably many of them have been cleaned. No problem buying it.
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The reverse has a flat area from the application of the obverse countermark. If you collect the series, there's no getting around that.
As for the cleaning, the coin was probably shined up pretty good with a jeweler's rag, or something like that, but there are no deep hairlines from the cleaning. I'll also add that most collectors wouldn't even recognize that the coin had been cleaned, but it is obvious to me.
Finally, I did not use a glass to grade this coin. For a coin of this size, I very rarely do.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I could look at the plates in the various catalogs - I have them all - but in this case I'm willing to assume that Ulex, Brand and the Norwebs were not about to shine up this coin. I base that both on their reputations and on all the other coins I've seen from the same collections, which were all extraordinary.
BTW, I'd be willing to bet that Fonrobert was also not guilty of cleaning this coin.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don't know. I also don't know where this piece sits in the condition census.
I would have liked that info before the auction but it's not readily available. Oh, well. Sometimes, you just have to wing it.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.