Ya know, Pharmer....I had no intention of getting under anyone's skin here. I've read "someone" start so many inflammatory threads that were mean, insulting and condescending, and I am 100% against that kind of thread. I joke around, I post strange pictures, but I would never intentionally try to hurt someone. I've helped many, many collectors who have PMed me...with everything from how to buy in auctions to who to call for Buffalo Nickels. I sure don't know half of everything, but I try to help.
I just take umbrage in the manner things were done in the setup for this new company, which I believe was noble in it's original charter.
You don't burn down a major city to build a new library.
It's all about who controls the market. PCGS has earned its stripes. Collectors still need to know how to grade sufficiently not to get burned on a coin purchase. Dealers still need to have some integrity. If a second opinion isn't enough, sure - get another, and another, and another if it makes you feel good.
But, when I see an MS-64 1945 Merc on ebay for $50.00, just because it has a sticker, don't tell me that the collectors are going to benefit. A $50.00 asking price is 3 full grades higher than a "PQ" MS-64. Who's fooling whom? This is an added layer of assurance? BS!
It's just one more layer of costs and another bit of uncertainty injected into an already complex pricing structure. In my opinion, it's just one more link in a byzantine house of cards, where only a few are privy enough to have copies of the rule book. And, as usual - the collector pays the freight.
Jay is right on point when he says that the market isn't in shambles - all the buzz over a "bifurcated market" is calculated to stimulate sales from a spooked collector base. It's all about who controls the market, because that's where the money is, isn't it? He or she who defines the market has the edge.
As far as I'm concerned, Jay is speaking from a collector's point of view, and that's the view that most collectors have. The reason "most of the major dealers" have signed up is because they believe that they will gain some advantage in doing so - for them, the "industry" is about dealer profitability, and it can be no other way. For collectors, it's sometimes about bragging rights but in more cases than not, it's just about collecting.
The incrowd just can't stand it when the plebeians start learning the game, so they have to make a few extra rules every now and then. Much ado about nothing, imo.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I'm certainly not a big player in the coin market and don't know the any of the majors except via the web, but I think the CAC has what could be good idea but it's misdirected. Instead of grading the papers of the major TPGs they should focus on the second and third tier graders like NNC, SEGS, SGS, and others. I believe that could be a real benefit to a large portion of collectors.
I also notice that the very first CAC approved coin on ebay was a common date MS64 Mercury dime that sold for $50 when it should have gone for no more than $20 or $30 at the high end. I think that is a sham and rip-off.
Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
<< <i>It's been made clear to me that this website is not the place to have such a discussion. >>
Perhaps this was meant this to say, "Obviously we (Coingoddess, dweebgod and I) can't pull the wool over the eyes of the participants of this fine forum so we will take our marketing propaganda elsewhere."
<< <i>It's been made clear to me that this website is not the place to have such a discussion. >>
Perhaps this was meant this to say, "Obviously we (Coingoddess, dweebgod and I) can't pull the wool over the eyes of the participants of this fine forum so we will take our marketing propaganda elsewhere." >>
I also notice that the very first CAC approved coin on ebay was a common date MS64 Mercury dime that sold for $50 when it should have gone for no more than $20 or $30 at the high end. I think that is a sham and rip-off.
People continue to parade out that one example as why the CAC is evil for collectors. That ebay example is a novelty--nothing more, nothing less. I would not be surprised if CAC detractors set up the whole thing to make CAC look silly, which it certainly does.
I am personally disappointed in the launch of the CAC. I was expecting a tighter definition of standards and a more supportive dealer platform. I have no coins to sell, so it matters to me little either way. I still believe that a new grading service , with a focus on classic US coins and an emphasis on originality, would have had a better chance of winning over collectors than the current iteration.
<< <i>I also notice that the very first CAC approved coin on ebay was a common date MS64 Mercury dime that sold for $50 when it should have gone for no more than $20 or $30 at the high end. I think that is a sham and rip-off.
People continue to parade out that one example as why the CAC is evil for collectors. That ebay example is a novelty--nothing more, nothing less. I would not be surprised if CAC detractors set up the whole thing to make CAC look silly, which it certainly does.
I am personally disappointed in the launch of the CAC. I was expecting a tighter definition of standards and a more supportive dealer platform. I have no coins to sell, so it matters to me little either way. I still believe that a new grading service , with a focus on classic US coins and an emphasis on originality, would have had a better chance of winning over collectors than the current iteration. >>
<< <i>It's been made clear to me that this website is not the place to have such a discussion. >>
Perhaps this was meant this to say, "Obviously we (Coingoddess, dweebgod and I) can't pull the wool over the eyes of the participants of this fine forum so we will take our marketing propaganda elsewhere." >>
<< <i>It's been made clear to me that this website is not the place to have such a discussion. >>
Perhaps this was meant this to say, "Obviously we (Coingoddess, dweebgod and I) can't pull the wool over the eyes of the participants of this fine forum so we will take our marketing propaganda elsewhere." >>
<< <i>Ya know, Pharmer....I had no intention of getting under anyone's skin here. I've read "someone" start so many inflammatory threads that were mean, insulting and condescending, and I am 100% against that kind of thread. I joke around, I post strange pictures, but I would never intentionally try to hurt someone. I've helped many, many collectors who have PMed me...with everything from how to buy in auctions to who to call for Buffalo Nickels. I sure don't know half of everything, but I try to help.
I just take umbrage in the manner things were done in the setup for this new company, which I believe was noble in it's original charter.
You don't burn down a major city to build a new library. >>
Dude, I get it. I've posted supportive comments. I've made my feelings quite clear, also about how it was done. Yours are about motivation of these folks, mine are about the methods. I said don't let HIM get this killed. You haven't, nor do I think you can, say the kinds of things to do that, it's not in you. I think he can and will. Capiche? (I know you think I misspell that, and I think you do)
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>I'm certainly not a big player in the coin market and don't know the any of the majors except via the web, but I think the CAC has what could be good idea but it's misdirected. Instead of grading the papers of the major TPGs they should focus on the second and third tier graders like NNC, SEGS, SGS, and others. I believe that could be a real benefit to a large portion of collectors.
I also notice that the very first CAC approved coin on ebay was a common date MS64 Mercury dime that sold for $50 when it should have gone for no more than $20 or $30 at the high end. I think that is a sham and rip-off. >>
Let's be realistic here -- that coin was likely bought as a novelty, and cannot be considered a bellwether for the CAC market. It was likely a freebie review from Coinfest -- I doubt that JA will be reviewing scads of MS-64 Mercs for $10 a pop.
Impassioned post nonwithstanding, "they" are here to stay. Too many liberal types want Daddy to insulate them from any risk and the consequences of their own decisions.
Hey, pharmer - if I wanted to get the thread killed I would. I had no problem with GooGoo's original thread - typical Jay blowing smoke out his rear to make a point. His point even had some validity to it. It was his last post from this morning that crossed the line way beyond good taste and acceptability. He got caught up in all the adolation from idiots like you - happens to the best of us.
<< <i>Hey, pharmer - if I wanted to get the thread killed I would. I had no problem with GooGoo's original thread - typical Jay blowing smoke out his rear to make a point. His point even had some validity to it. It was his last post from this morning that crossed the line way beyond good taste and acceptability. He got caught up in all the adolation from idiots like you - happens to the best of us. >>
Man, I bet you have to wear a large hat to cover all that foreskin!
<< <i>It's been made clear to me that this website is not the place to have such a discussion. >>
Perhaps this was meant this to say, "Obviously we (Coingoddess, dweebgod and I) can't pull the wool over the eyes of the participants of this fine forum so we will take our marketing propaganda elsewhere." >>
And perhaps it wasn't. Don't be an ass. >>
he's not, he's a dweeb.... >>
No - you're a dweeb ... he's just an ass. >>
you get classier by the post!!!
Keep it coming!
<< <i> Hey, pharmer - if I wanted to get the thread killed I would. >>
<< <i>Ya know, Pharmer....I had no intention of getting under anyone's skin here. I've read "someone" start so many inflammatory threads that were mean, insulting and condescending, and I am 100% against that kind of thread. I joke around, I post strange pictures, but I would never intentionally try to hurt someone. I've helped many, many collectors who have PMed me...with everything from how to buy in auctions to who to call for Buffalo Nickels. I sure don't know half of everything, but I try to help.
I just take umbrage in the manner things were done in the setup for this new company, which I believe was noble in it's original charter.
You don't burn down a major city to build a new library. >>
Dude, I get it. I've posted supportive comments. I've made my feelings quite clear, also about how it was done. Yours are about motivation of these folks, mine are about the methods. I said don't let HIM get this killed. You haven't, nor do I think you can, say the kinds of things to do that, it's not in you. I think he can and will. Capiche? (I know you think I misspell that, and I think you do) >>
Capece
This thread has served it's purpose. Let's not get it nuked, OK? This is not about one company vs. another. I think that this thread was given quite a bit of latitude and I'd hate to see it disappear.
The personal crap does no good. I'll start another thread for that!
Does this thread remind anyone else of the movie, The Usual Suspects? It does me except I found the movie very entertaining, this thread seems to have brought out the worst in some folks and generated the expected comments from the usual suspects. Time for the mods to kill it.
This is the best thread since you know who used to post here. I like how it started really decent and hope we can discuss Coins. I saw a thread by 23 pairer with a toned quarter that got bodybagged. He is upset.
There are threads in another forum in which more info is being discussed, fyi. This one will stay now that it's calmed down, and certain folks have moved to that other location to discuss this. Thanks again, Jay. I like PCGS and their product, obviously.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>I'm certainly not a big player in the coin market and don't know the any of the majors except via the web, but I think the CAC has what could be good idea but it's misdirected. Instead of grading the papers of the major TPGs they should focus on the second and third tier graders like NNC, SEGS, SGS, and others. I believe that could be a real benefit to a large portion of collectors.
I also notice that the very first CAC approved coin on ebay was a common date MS64 Mercury dime that sold for $50 when it should have gone for no more than $20 or $30 at the high end. I think that is a sham and rip-off. >>
Let's be realistic here -- that coin was likely bought as a novelty, and cannot be considered a bellwether for the CAC market. It was likely a freebie review from Coinfest -- I doubt that JA will be reviewing scads of MS-64 Mercs for $10 a pop. >>
It may have been purchased as a novelty, but it also might be the buyer thought he was getting something special. He does not appear to be either a dealer or collector and the next highest priced item he's bought since August was $19.95 AC charger.
Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
I've read this post from top to bottom it's been really interesting. I consider myself a collector; I'm not that good at grading coins myself. I've bought many books and I'm getting educated and getting better at it. Like I said in other post my most expensive coin I have ever bought was a 1804 quarter for $1500.00 I realize I'm small time and have many coins that don’t carry much value. I collect them because I like them. I think the idea of the CAC is crazy, I depend on TPG services to do their part and grade a coin correctly so I can buy them sight unseen, isn’t that the whole purpose of their existence? I was under the assumption that they were there to help out people like me until I do get up to par with grading on my own because I unfortunately don't have the luxury of a trusted dealer in my area. This is really starting to turn me off on this hobby; I'm not in it for the big bucks down the road. I prefer PCGS by the way because of the holder and the reputation it just seems a lot of people have forgotten about the "little guy" I can see it now in 10 years you'll have a PCGS coin, it will be stickered, then sealed in a bag with tamper proof protection by another company. Where does it end? I pay good money to have my coins graded once.....that should be the end of the story right there.
<< <i>It's all about who controls the market. PCGS has earned its stripes. Collectors still need to know how to grade sufficiently not to get burned on a coin purchase. Dealers still need to have some integrity. If a second opinion isn't enough, sure - get another, and another, and another if it makes you feel good.
But, when I see an MS-64 1945 Merc on ebay for $50.00, just because it has a sticker, don't tell me that the collectors are going to benefit. A $50.00 asking price is 3 full grades higher than a "PQ" MS-64. Who's fooling whom? This is an added layer of assurance? BS!
It's just one more layer of costs and another bit of uncertainty injected into an already complex pricing structure. In my opinion, it's just one more link in a byzantine house of cards, where only a few are privy enough to have copies of the rule book. And, as usual - the collector pays the freight.
Jay is right on point when he says that the market isn't in shambles - all the buzz over a "bifurcated market" is calculated to stimulate sales from a spooked collector base. It's all about who controls the market, because that's where the money is, isn't it? He or she who defines the market has the edge.
As far as I'm concerned, Jay is speaking from a collector's point of view, and that's the view that most collectors have. The reason "most of the major dealers" have signed up is because they believe that they will gain some advantage in doing so - for them, the "industry" is about dealer profitability, and it can be no other way. For collectors, it's sometimes about bragging rights but in more cases than not, it's just about collecting.
The incrowd just can't stand it when the plebeians start learning the game, so they have to make a few extra rules every now and then. Much ado about nothing, imo. >>
Comments
I just take umbrage in the manner things were done in the setup for this new company, which I believe was noble in it's original charter.
You don't burn down a major city to build a new library.
But, when I see an MS-64 1945 Merc on ebay for $50.00, just because it has a sticker, don't tell me that the collectors are going to benefit. A $50.00 asking price is 3 full grades higher than a "PQ" MS-64. Who's fooling whom? This is an added layer of assurance? BS!
It's just one more layer of costs and another bit of uncertainty injected into an already complex pricing structure. In my opinion, it's just one more link in a byzantine house of cards, where only a few are privy enough to have copies of the rule book. And, as usual - the collector pays the freight.
Jay is right on point when he says that the market isn't in shambles - all the buzz over a "bifurcated market" is calculated to stimulate sales from a spooked collector base. It's all about who controls the market, because that's where the money is, isn't it? He or she who defines the market has the edge.
As far as I'm concerned, Jay is speaking from a collector's point of view, and that's the view that most collectors have. The reason "most of the major dealers" have signed up is because they believe that they will gain some advantage in doing so - for them, the "industry" is about dealer profitability, and it can be no other way. For collectors, it's sometimes about bragging rights but in more cases than not, it's just about collecting.
The incrowd just can't stand it when the plebeians start learning the game, so they have to make a few extra rules every now and then. Much ado about nothing, imo.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>You don't burn down a major city to build a new library. >>
Is that a shout-out to anyone in Detroit tonight?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I also notice that the very first CAC approved coin on ebay was a common date MS64 Mercury dime that sold for $50 when it should have gone for no more than $20 or $30 at the high end. I think that is a sham and rip-off.
<< <i>It's been made clear to me that this website is not the place to have such a discussion. >>
Perhaps this was meant this to say, "Obviously we (Coingoddess, dweebgod and I) can't pull the wool over the eyes of the participants of this fine forum so we will take our marketing propaganda elsewhere."
Who is John Galt?
<< <i>
<< <i>It's been made clear to me that this website is not the place to have such a discussion. >>
Perhaps this was meant this to say, "Obviously we (Coingoddess, dweebgod and I) can't pull the wool over the eyes of the participants of this fine forum so we will take our marketing propaganda elsewhere."
And perhaps it wasn't. Don't be an ass.
People continue to parade out that one example as why the CAC is evil for collectors. That ebay example is a novelty--nothing more, nothing less. I would not be surprised if CAC detractors set up the whole thing to make CAC look silly, which it certainly does.
I am personally disappointed in the launch of the CAC. I was expecting a tighter definition of standards and a more supportive dealer platform. I have no coins to sell, so it matters to me little either way. I still believe that a new grading service , with a focus on classic US coins and an emphasis on originality, would have had a better chance of winning over collectors than the current iteration.
<< <i>I also notice that the very first CAC approved coin on ebay was a common date MS64 Mercury dime that sold for $50 when it should have gone for no more than $20 or $30 at the high end. I think that is a sham and rip-off.
People continue to parade out that one example as why the CAC is evil for collectors. That ebay example is a novelty--nothing more, nothing less. I would not be surprised if CAC detractors set up the whole thing to make CAC look silly, which it certainly does.
I am personally disappointed in the launch of the CAC. I was expecting a tighter definition of standards and a more supportive dealer platform. I have no coins to sell, so it matters to me little either way. I still believe that a new grading service , with a focus on classic US coins and an emphasis on originality, would have had a better chance of winning over collectors than the current iteration. >>
WHERE did you find a "definition of standards"?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's been made clear to me that this website is not the place to have such a discussion. >>
Perhaps this was meant this to say, "Obviously we (Coingoddess, dweebgod and I) can't pull the wool over the eyes of the participants of this fine forum so we will take our marketing propaganda elsewhere."
And perhaps it wasn't. Don't be an ass. >>
he's not, he's a dweeb....
I haven't. That's the problem. I had to email a dealer to try to get a handle on it. I still do not know whether it's "PQ" or "solid-for-the-grade".
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's been made clear to me that this website is not the place to have such a discussion. >>
Perhaps this was meant this to say, "Obviously we (Coingoddess, dweebgod and I) can't pull the wool over the eyes of the participants of this fine forum so we will take our marketing propaganda elsewhere."
And perhaps it wasn't. Don't be an ass. >>
he's not, he's a dweeb.... >>
No - you're a dweeb ... he's just an ass.
<< <i>Ya know, Pharmer....I had no intention of getting under anyone's skin here. I've read "someone" start so many inflammatory threads that were mean, insulting and condescending, and I am 100% against that kind of thread. I joke around, I post strange pictures, but I would never intentionally try to hurt someone. I've helped many, many collectors who have PMed me...with everything from how to buy in auctions to who to call for Buffalo Nickels. I sure don't know half of everything, but I try to help.
I just take umbrage in the manner things were done in the setup for this new company, which I believe was noble in it's original charter.
You don't burn down a major city to build a new library. >>
Dude, I get it. I've posted supportive comments. I've made my feelings quite clear, also about how it was done. Yours are about motivation of these folks, mine are about the methods. I said don't let HIM get this killed. You haven't, nor do I think you can, say the kinds of things to do that, it's not in you. I think he can and will. Capiche? (I know you think I misspell that, and I think you do)
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>I'm certainly not a big player in the coin market and don't know the any of the majors except via the web, but I think the CAC has what could be good idea but it's misdirected. Instead of grading the papers of the major TPGs they should focus on the second and third tier graders like NNC, SEGS, SGS, and others. I believe that could be a real benefit to a large portion of collectors.
I also notice that the very first CAC approved coin on ebay was a common date MS64 Mercury dime that sold for $50 when it should have gone for no more than $20 or $30 at the high end. I think that is a sham and rip-off. >>
Let's be realistic here -- that coin was likely bought as a novelty, and cannot be considered a bellwether for the CAC market. It was likely a freebie review from Coinfest -- I doubt that JA will be reviewing scads of MS-64 Mercs for $10 a pop.
Girlie men.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>Hey, pharmer - if I wanted to get the thread killed I would. I had no problem with GooGoo's original thread - typical Jay blowing smoke out his rear to make a point. His point even had some validity to it. It was his last post from this morning that crossed the line way beyond good taste and acceptability. He got caught up in all the adolation from idiots like you - happens to the best of us. >>
Man, I bet you have to wear a large hat to cover all that foreskin!
<< <i>I wonder if I'm a "dweeb" because the most I've ever paid for any one coin is in the low four figures? >>
No, not realy, a "dweeb" as used here is anyone who doesn't subscribe to the elitist tripe being being
put forth.
DRINK THE CAC-A-LAID, IT WILL PROTECT YOU FROM YOURSELF!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's been made clear to me that this website is not the place to have such a discussion. >>
Perhaps this was meant this to say, "Obviously we (Coingoddess, dweebgod and I) can't pull the wool over the eyes of the participants of this fine forum so we will take our marketing propaganda elsewhere."
And perhaps it wasn't. Don't be an ass. >>
he's not, he's a dweeb.... >>
No - you're a dweeb ... he's just an ass. >>
you get classier by the post!!!
Keep it coming!
<< <i> Hey, pharmer - if I wanted to get the thread killed I would. >>
Kind of like you got Kenny bammed?
>>>My Collection
<< <i>Hey, pharmer - if I wanted to get the thread killed I would. >>
and get him bammed
hi, i'm tom.
i do not doctor coins like some who post in here.
Stop!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are giving me a headache.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ya know, Pharmer....I had no intention of getting under anyone's skin here. I've read "someone" start so many inflammatory threads that were mean, insulting and condescending, and I am 100% against that kind of thread. I joke around, I post strange pictures, but I would never intentionally try to hurt someone. I've helped many, many collectors who have PMed me...with everything from how to buy in auctions to who to call for Buffalo Nickels. I sure don't know half of everything, but I try to help.
I just take umbrage in the manner things were done in the setup for this new company, which I believe was noble in it's original charter.
You don't burn down a major city to build a new library. >>
Dude, I get it. I've posted supportive comments. I've made my feelings quite clear, also about how it was done. Yours are about motivation of these folks, mine are about the methods. I said don't let HIM get this killed. You haven't, nor do I think you can, say the kinds of things to do that, it's not in you. I think he can and will. Capiche? (I know you think I misspell that, and I think you do)
Capece
This thread has served it's purpose. Let's not get it nuked, OK? This is not about one company vs. another. I think that this thread was given quite a bit of latitude and I'd hate to see it disappear.
The personal crap does no good. I'll start another thread for that!
I'm done chatting.
<< <i>This needs to be concluded.
I'm done chatting.
But, wait! I'm not done yet...
A seated coin link
That thread appears to have negative connotations. I see something like that on the border of being MODERATED than a little passion flying here.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>
Ditto
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm certainly not a big player in the coin market and don't know the any of the majors except via the web, but I think the CAC has what could be good idea but it's misdirected. Instead of grading the papers of the major TPGs they should focus on the second and third tier graders like NNC, SEGS, SGS, and others. I believe that could be a real benefit to a large portion of collectors.
I also notice that the very first CAC approved coin on ebay was a common date MS64 Mercury dime that sold for $50 when it should have gone for no more than $20 or $30 at the high end. I think that is a sham and rip-off. >>
Let's be realistic here -- that coin was likely bought as a novelty, and cannot be considered a bellwether for the CAC market. It was likely a freebie review from Coinfest -- I doubt that JA will be reviewing scads of MS-64 Mercs for $10 a pop. >>
It may have been purchased as a novelty, but it also might be the buyer thought he was getting something special. He does not appear to be either a dealer or collector and the next highest priced item he's bought since August was $19.95 AC charger.
<< <i>It's all about who controls the market. PCGS has earned its stripes. Collectors still need to know how to grade sufficiently not to get burned on a coin purchase. Dealers still need to have some integrity. If a second opinion isn't enough, sure - get another, and another, and another if it makes you feel good.
But, when I see an MS-64 1945 Merc on ebay for $50.00, just because it has a sticker, don't tell me that the collectors are going to benefit. A $50.00 asking price is 3 full grades higher than a "PQ" MS-64. Who's fooling whom? This is an added layer of assurance? BS!
It's just one more layer of costs and another bit of uncertainty injected into an already complex pricing structure. In my opinion, it's just one more link in a byzantine house of cards, where only a few are privy enough to have copies of the rule book. And, as usual - the collector pays the freight.
Jay is right on point when he says that the market isn't in shambles - all the buzz over a "bifurcated market" is calculated to stimulate sales from a spooked collector base. It's all about who controls the market, because that's where the money is, isn't it? He or she who defines the market has the edge.
As far as I'm concerned, Jay is speaking from a collector's point of view, and that's the view that most collectors have. The reason "most of the major dealers" have signed up is because they believe that they will gain some advantage in doing so - for them, the "industry" is about dealer profitability, and it can be no other way. For collectors, it's sometimes about bragging rights but in more cases than not, it's just about collecting.
The incrowd just can't stand it when the plebeians start learning the game, so they have to make a few extra rules every now and then. Much ado about nothing, imo. >>
Now that's a great post!
is this STINKING STICKER" At least
PCGS give you a slab and a guarantee.
Camelot