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Interesting advice about collector burnout (and treatment) in Winter's new blog

LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I took a look at Winter's website, and he has a new blog. It is interesting, especially the treatment of coin burnout. I think the book suggestion is sound, but I wonder how many collectors just focus on the coins, the coins, and nothing but the coins. Here it is:

*****************
October 27, 2007

I’ve seen it happen many times in the past few years. An avid new collector storms into the hobby and buys lots of coins but then hits critical mass and thinks about leaving numismatics. What can you do as a collector who has reached the “burnout” phase to rekindle your passion for numismatics?

The first thing I would suggest is to get all of your coins together and lay them out on a table or desk. Take a good hard look at them and decide what deserves to be in the collection and what does not. If you are like any new collector, it is likely that in your initial burst of enthusiasm, you bought coins that you shouldn’t have. In retrospect, they may be ugly or they just don’t fit in with the core collection you have. My best advice is to jettison them.

Now I’m not suggesting a fire sale. The best way to sell the coins is an orderly, organized fashion. You might do it yourself or select a dealer to help you. Or, you could always choose to put the coins in an auction. If possible, give yourself at least 90-120 days to plan and execute a strategy that makes sense.

It is likely that some of the “duds” that you originally purchased are going to be losers when it comes time to sell. Assuming that you are out of love forever with a specific coin, it’s alright to sell it for a loss. Just make certain that use this as a learning experience and try not to repeat this specific mistake in the future. (FYI, even smart dealers sometimes have to sell coins for losses. Really smart dealers get out of their bad deals as quickly as possible and reinvest their money in other coins that, hopefully, will be better deals).

The next thing I would suggest to recharge your battery is to take the next $500-1,500 you were going to spend on a coin and use it to form a basic library. Buy the five to ten essential books that should be in every collector’s library and then buy useful books in your chosen field(s) of specialization. I would also suggest buying a core group of auction catalogs from the 1980’s and 1990’s as well. Find a numismatic literature dealer and tell him that you collect Liberty Seated quarters or Type Three double eagles and the chances are good that he can recommend some older but still very useful catalogs that can greatly enhance your collecting experience.

Taking the numismatic literature theme one step further, get a current auction catalog from a specialist dealer like George Kolbe, Charles Davis or Fred Lake and buy some interesting 19th or early 20th century books or catalogs. As an example, the upcoming Kolbe sale of the John Pittman library has some really wonderful books and catalogs that will make a great test for your numismatic DNA. If you find everything in the catalog to be boring and the history of numismatics and its personalities has no appeal to you, maybe you are being sent a message: coins just aren’t in your blood. But if you find some of the obscure books, catalogs, letters and manuscripts to be very exciting, then you can take this as a message: coins are in your blood but you just need to reinvigorate your interest.


Doug Winter
10/27/07
www.raregoldcoins.com
For more information on United States gold coins please contact me via email at dwn@ont.com
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)

Comments

  • fcfc Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭
    my first thoughy when reading the article is that if you buy all your coins
    from DW should you really have coins that are not so great and need
    selling off? hmmm???

    i disagree with spending a ton of money on books that all seem to regurgitate
    the same info over and over. maybe a person should buy a history book that
    revolves around the era they are interested in and have nothing to do with coins
    at all. does a burnout really desire more coin info? i do not think so.

    as usual i always check his website for coins but they are too pricy and i do not
    wish to be buried by them. i notice his P coins are not selling even though they
    are quite nice. (maybe the insane price is the problem).

    my advice to burnouts is to just lock the coins away in a safety deposit box and
    move on to something else for now.

    i just have a "feeling" that a lot of people who buy from DW over extend themselves
    money wise and HAVE to sell them due to other projects. this explains the reason why
    a certain dealer can constantly sell "rare" coins and make a living from it.

    so rare yet always one or two for sale every day of the week. southern gold and rare
    really do not belong in the same sentence for the majority of dates.

    but that is marketing for you.
  • I hit this point a few months ago. Stood back and assessed the collection, and my direction, then proceeded to re-focus the whole direction.
    It's easy to get discouraged by a bad dealer who wants to sell to ya all day long but can't deal when you want to trade or sell back. It's also tough to come to the boards and see all of the beautiful coins that others here have and know they may be unattainable for you now or maybe ever.

    I personally re-focus now often but the goal is plain and clear. PCGS graded only, and the best I can get for the price. Easy to find many opportunities on the web, just sit back and be clear and patient.

    (by the way, I collect IHC and gold.)
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭


    << <i>my first thoughy when reading the article is that if you buy all your coins
    from DW should you really have coins that are not so great and need
    selling off? hmmm???

    i disagree with spending a ton of money on books that all seem to regurgitate
    the same info over and over. maybe a person should buy a history book that
    revolves around the era they are interested in and have nothing to do with coins
    at all. does a burnout really desire more coin info? i do not think so.

    as usual i always check his website for coins but they are too pricy and i do not
    wish to be buried by them. i notice his P coins are not selling even though they
    are quite nice. (maybe the insane price is the problem).

    my advice to burnouts is to just lock the coins away in a safety deposit box and
    move on to something else for now.

    i just have a "feeling" that a lot of people who buy from DW over extend themselves
    money wise and HAVE to sell them due to other projects. this explains the reason why
    a certain dealer can constantly sell "rare" coins and make a living from it.

    so rare yet always one or two for sale every day of the week. southern gold and rare
    really do not belong in the same sentence for the majority of dates.

    but that is marketing for you. >>





    Whenever I am on the verge of burnout, I always ask myself, "what would fc do?" image

    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I resemble some of that profile. However, I have spent thousands of dollars on books and catalogs and even read them. I do agree with his approach to liquidation, and it went fairly smoothly for me. I had very few "duds" in my collection and used channels like ebay and Heritage to sell them.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    fc:

    I must partially disagree with you regarding Doug Winter.

    I have spoken and written with him a couple of times and found that he is very careful not to push his wares. In fact, he was very mindful of the collector's continuing interest and ability to afford what he embarks on.

    The books idea is a good way to build upon that interest, your history book idea is also a good idea, if you are a member of the ANA, you do not have to spend large amounts of money to get ahold of reading books.

    I truly believe Doug would prefer that his customer buy from him at a slightly lower pace from him because he knows it will be sustainable in the long run and more enjoyable for both the collector and for him. The process of building the collection has got to be 75% of the fun anyway?

    There are also other ways one can surround his collection with inexpensive medals, tokens and artifacts of the time period he is collecting. Even an interesting post card of the era. Old and inexpensive used boks, stamps.

    My favorite idea. Write an article about the era, do some research and post it here!
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I hit this point a few months ago. Stood back and assessed the collection, and my direction, then proceeded to re-focus the whole direction.
    It's easy to get discouraged by a bad dealer who wants to sell to ya all day long but can't deal when you want to trade or sell back. It's also tough to come to the boards and see all of the beautiful coins that others here have and know they may be unattainable for you now or maybe ever.

    I personally re-focus now often but the goal is plain and clear. PCGS graded only, and the best I can get for the price. Easy to find many opportunities on the web, just sit back and be clear and patient.

    (by the way, I collect IHC and gold.) >>

    image I can buy the top of the line coin, but I'll buy it when it's at the right price.


    Hoard the keys.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,296 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I usually run out of money long before I burnout.image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • TahoeDaleTahoeDale Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭
    Another great message from Winter. When Doug has some extra time, he just sits back and thinks about the collector, and what that collector needs.

    And he's right on. When I haven't bought or sold a coin in weeks/months, and/or the entire year, it does get boring, and I seem to lose interest.

    But I have the Eliasberg sale of April, 1997, The Price sale of 1998, the Pittman sale, the Pryor sale, the Cardinal collection of ED's, The Queller collection of Halves, the Buddy Byers sale of Halves, and the George Walton sale of 1963.

    There is so much information within these covers, that I soon get re-inspired quickly.

    And if all else fails, I pull out my Mexican and Spanish siver and gold, and marvel at the Artwork on these 16th and 17th Century beauties.

    TahoeDale
  • shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    I can relate to this post. Winter's scenerio is me, over the period of 5 years.

    I burned out when I realized the coins I coveted were sold, at my buying price, a decade before I discovered their existance image

    So it goes.

    After the sell off, and as Winter's mentioned there were some "duds", something interesting happened.
    I was still interested in coins, but for the first time it wasn't fueled by the urge to buy them.
    I started doing my homework after the fact and started to appreciate the hobby as an artform
    instead of a competition. "Post your newest acquisition" became "Post an interesting coin".
    If I had the expendible income now that I had then, I'd be a much more intelligent coin collector.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RYK said he resembled part of that profile.

    Part of the problem is that when prices are rising, collectors such as RYK and others (I do not exclude myself from this) have an added urgency to tend to buy up all that can be bought before prices get beyond the buying power of the collector. It is not only a competition problem but facing the reality that prices have been rising in their favorite collecting areas.

    Had prices been falling, I do not think the burnout factor would be quite the same, just different.

    Taking a long view (10 years or more) rather than a short 5 year view of collecting will help a lot!!
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Part of the problem is that when prices are rising, collectors such as RYK and others (I do not exclude myself from this) have an added urgency to tend to buy up all that can be bought before prices get beyond the buying power of the collector. It is not only a competition problem but facing the reality that prices have been rising in their favorite collecting areas.

    This is very true. I continued to get priced out of coins that I expected to be able to buy for my collection. Either they were too expensive in the absolute sense (ie. too big for my checking account) or too expensive in the relative sense (appeared to be a poor value in my subjective opinion).

    Being disappointed time and again (with various facets of the coin hobby/biz/industry) over the course of several years had a cumulative effect. When the straw finally broke the camel's back, it was time to say no mas.
  • UtahCoinUtahCoin Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I addressed burn out a couple of weeks ago in another thread.
    Sit down with an autistic kid and sort through a bag of Wheat Cents and fill in an old Whitman album. It will do wonders for you, it did for me.
    Thread
    I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector.
    Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭
    ---Whenever I am on the verge of burnout, I always ask myself, "what would fc do?"

    we are crying buddies cause we both missed the big coinfest :-(

    ---I have spoken and written with him a couple of times and found that he is very careful not to push his wares. In fact, he was very mindful of the collector's continuing interest and ability to afford what he embarks on.

    That is good to hear. It sounds like he is a fair guy to deal with. I wish i had the means to
    buy some of his coins but i cannot. i have coin envy!

    ---My favorite idea. Write an article about the era, do some research and post it here!

    interesting idea and i have seen some collectors do just that.

    ---sort through a bag of Wheat Cents and fill in an old Whitman album.

    i agree with this suggestion. coins do not have to be expensive. buy some junk silver
    and grab a few used albums for a dollar each. get back to basics. all of a sudden a wheat
    penny with a lamination error becomes a highlight of the evening. A roosie with a clip becomes
    an interesting find.

    This allows you to have fun on cheap money and allow yourself time to find the higher end coins
    that you know are right for you.

    I just think burnout is another way of saying, holy crap i spent a lot of money and I am not
    sure it is worth it. You begin to question your sanity ;-)
  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭
    I didn't quite follow his advice.

    When I decided to liquidate, first I sold the coins. Then I sold the books. I wasn't (and still am not) in the mood to read anything about coins when the interest waned.

    On another note, I offered a few coins to DW, and his offers were quite underwhelming.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have several hobbies... each one very engrossing. So, I move from one to the other - and never tire of any.... Cheers, RickO
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have several hobbies... each one very engrossing. So, I move from one to the other - and never tire of any.... Cheers, RickO >>



    That's the best suggestion yet. Where the heck is that stamp forum??? image
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Agree with Ricko. Most material I need for my type set is imo too expensive or improperly graded.
    So, I focus on other material that interests me and not the masses. Might add that I've never seen a coin that "I had to have," nor will I ever see one, which helps matters.

    For reasons above, when coins are not high on my agenda, I focus on my next roadrace, or where will I go on my next vacation.

    Yes, always take a vacation. If that means you don't buy coins for the next six months, so be it.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • fcfc Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭
    I disagree with you here. Considering the entire hobby of "rare coins", No Motto southern gold, for the most part, deserves to be considered rare. Individual coins are scarce in any grade and nice, original higher grade coins are truly rare. Don't believe me? Go out and find one MS and two AU-58 1846-O $5's. Make sure they are accurately graded, and have a nice original look. (I have intentionally picked a date in the middle of the rarity spectrum.)


    ---

    At least the D mint has some coins in MS and above for every date
    if you do not break the year into sub-categories. Tall D, weak D,
    medium D, yada yada... (this is half eagles I am talking about, while
    RYK knows about the other denominations a 1000x better then i do).

    You also picked a conditional rarity example. Sure if you pick a high
    enough grade for each southern date they become uber hard to
    locate.. but that is not what I meant.

    When I say rare I mean they circulated, were melted, and there
    is only a hanful left. Just because most were clean and scrubbed does
    not mean they no longer exist! Now if you are talking about southern
    gold that is properly graded, has remaining luster for the grade,
    and a nice strike.. sure i totally agree!

    The reason i say what I did is because there are some S and P dates
    of half eagles that i have never seen sold yet! While the southern
    half eagles pop up so often. (This does not include every date, there
    are a few that rarely ever appear).

    But i just watched you complete a complete set of D half eagles
    within a few years with a nice look to them.. so how rare can they
    be?

    I love debating coins ;-)



  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 12,873 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The books idea is a good way to build upon that interest, your history book idea is also a good idea, if you are a member of the ANA, you do not have to spend large amounts of money to get ahold of reading books. >>



    oreville, you said a mouthful!
  • BearBear Posts: 18,954 ✭✭
    Basically I agree with Winters article.

    Periodically, I review my coin holdings

    and weed out the ones that do not look PQ

    or no longer fit with my collecting tastes. When

    I move into a new area of collecting, I always purchase

    one or more books on the specific area of my new interests.

    As for our mistakes, I always eliminate them even if it means

    a loss. The money salvaged from the mistakes can then be

    placed inmore advantages purchases.

    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He is right about having a Library... coins/medals or whatever do not all have to be expensive. There are fun things to collect that if one makes a mistake, it is really no big deal. I think it is fun to have side interests to help prevent the so called burnout and there is a difference between stopping a series because it has become too frustrating for various reasons...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you Longacre. I did a search this morning on "burn-out", and found this thread. Just had a good cry missing a few people.
  • JJMJJM Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I recently did exactly what is stated in paragraph 2
    my collection is much more compact , and im much
    happier image
    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not in that stage yet but i do take brakes from time to time and I'am weeding out the collection now. I will be selling off alot of the extra coins soon. image


    Hoard the keys.

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