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Coin dealer refused sell after pricing coin???

CoinKing1969CoinKing1969 Posts: 350
in U.S. Coin Forum
I was at a major coin show recently and found a coin that I needed to finish one of my early proof sets. After looking and inspecting it for about 10 minutes I asked the dealer "whacha got to have for it?". His price was $1,700 for it. I thought for about 15 seconds and reached in pocket to buy it from him. As I was counting out the money for it I was making a comment about tranfering from NGC to PCGS for my registry set. Before I knew it he was looking in his PCGS price guide and said "I can't sell it to you now". Of course I asked why and he said " It's work $6900 in a PCGS slab". "You have to be kidding me". and he said "Nope"

Now I will not mention the dealer, show, or even the coin. My intention is to show how some peoples ethics of business are conducted. Yes,he probally would have lost a lot of profit if he had sold it to me. Yes,he had not accepted the cash laying on his diplay case. Yes, he backed out of a deal he quoted to me personally. Yes, I will never deal with him again. and YES, I will keep my mouth shut until a deal is finished.

Has anybody else have a similar situation? imageimage
«134

Comments

  • FLBuffaloHunterFLBuffaloHunter Posts: 3,127


    << <i>and YES, I will keep my mouth shut until a deal is finished. >>


    Words of wisdom, words of wisdom.
    Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig image

    image
  • MichiganMichigan Posts: 4,942 ✭
    That dealer is pond scum. image
  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777 ✭
    Now I will not mention the dealer, show, or even the coin.

    Why?
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
  • CoinKing1969CoinKing1969 Posts: 350


    << <i>Now I will not mention the dealer, show, or even the coin.

    Why? >>



    I really feel I would bring my self down to his ethics by doing so. It was not my intentions either. I was looking to see if anybody else had a similar deal go wrong.
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    What makes you (or him) so sure the coin will cross?
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • CoinKing1969CoinKing1969 Posts: 350


    << <i>What makes you (or him) so sure the coin will cross? >>



    I was pretty sure myself and I guess I had so much confidence the dealer did too.image
  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,473 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gee...this just tells me to keep my mouth shut and not "socialize" with people... but isn't this why I started this hobby in the first place?? L
    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777 ✭
    I was looking to see if anybody else had a similar deal go wrong

    The last thing I would do if I'm buying a coin is tell a dealer what I REALLY think of the coin, or give any inference that I'm not being gouged by full retail plus some... image
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
  • SirAnthonyACSirAnthonyAC Posts: 646
    Pardon my ignorance but.... what's the big deal if you were "transferring from NGC to PCGS for my registry set"? Why did that end the transaction?

    Also, if he wanted $1700 and you were willing to pay $1700... why would he turn his back on his own price? Did mentioning your registry set make him think he had higher grade coins and therefore more valuable?
  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777 ✭
    what's the big deal if you were "transferring from NGC to PCGS for my registry set"? Why did that end the transaction?

    Because more often than not coins in pcgs holders will sell for more than the same graded coins in ngc holders. The seller must have thought that he had a premium ngc coin that could be crossed to a pcgs holder, and sold for more, since a potential buyer had the same idea..
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭
    I think avoiding that dealer is an excellent idea.
    Coin Rarities Online
  • prenumprenum Posts: 254
    C'mon you can't dump on the dealer - you should have kept your mouth shut.

    It doesn't matter if you are the buyer or seller. If either starts to gloat over the deal - before the deal is done - then he is an idiot.

    You have absolutely no beef. How naive.
    Don Willis
    Premium Numismatics, Inc.
    myurl
    800-596-COIN
  • BlindedByEgoBlindedByEgo Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If either starts to gloat over the deal - before the deal is done - then he is an idiot.

    >>



    True dat.

    Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1

  • CoxeCoxe Posts: 11,139 ✭
    Been doing this long enough to have had a few similar experiences. This is especially the ase for cherrypickers, known ones particularly. They think you must see something that makes the coin worth 10X the asking price or something on every coin to want to get a price on. I see it as part of the game. You feel the sting at first but avoiding the dealer in the future limits the coins you might buy. Best, IMHO, to just get over it and try not to talk too much.

    Someone else we all know on here has a related experience involving a camera phone in a coin shop.
    Select Rarities -- DMPLs and VAMs
    NSDR - Life Member
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  • bestdaybestday Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I was looking to see if anybody else had a similar deal go wrong

    The last thing I would do if I'm buying a coin is tell a dealer what I REALLY think of the coin, or give any inference that I'm not being gouged by full retail plus some... image >>



    I guess this coin buyer isn't a poker player..loose LIPs!!!!image
  • CoinKing1969CoinKing1969 Posts: 350


    << <i>C'mon you can't dump on the dealer - you should have kept your mouth shut.

    It doesn't matter if you are the buyer or seller. If either starts to gloat over the deal - before the deal is done - then he is an idiot.

    You have absolutely no beef. How naive. >>



    I was not gloating over the deal I simply said I was crossing the coin to PCGS for my registry set. Never said to the dealer how much the coin should have been or how great a deal I was getting. Either way if I was standing in the dealer shoes at that show I would have honored my verbal price instead of backing off and refusing to sell at all.
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Too bad you didn't get the coin.
    Also too bad you don't feel like these boards are meant for sharing info such as which dealer it was.

    I don't I will ever come across him, since I doubt we are near each other, but, hey, lack of knowledge is what gives dealers their power and why would anyone want to deny them that? Don't share knowledge so your fellow collectors can have repeat performances with said dealer image

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • prenumprenum Posts: 254
    Telling someone that they are selling you something for $1,700 that is worth $6,900 (your numbers) is gloating. I'm sure you would see it differently if the tables were turned.
    Don Willis
    Premium Numismatics, Inc.
    myurl
    800-596-COIN
  • AU58WALKERSAU58WALKERS Posts: 3,562 ✭


    << <i>Telling someone that they are selling you something for $1,700 that is worth $6,900 (your numbers) is gloating. I'm sure you would see it differently if the tables were turned. >>



    hmmmm....WHERE/WHEN did he tell the dealer that?
    "Everyday above ground is a good day"

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 23,170 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You have absolutely no beef. How naive.

    That's very sloppy business on the dealer's part. The coin was in an NGC holder. Nobody had any guarantee that the coin would cross over, other than your level of conviction. If the dealer had the coin for sale at a show and if he priced it for you, he should've been willing to sell it to you for that price.

    I think that you do have a beef, but that and a buck might get you a cup of coffee at the next coin show.

    You could go back to his table every show and find more coins that might cross, but wait until he is ready to hand you the coin and then walk away. That's basically what he did to you. Or, you could forget it and learn a lesson.

    Oh yeah, thanks for alerting the rest of us as to who it was.
    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • CoinKing1969CoinKing1969 Posts: 350


    << <i>Telling someone that they are selling you something for $1,700 that is worth $6,900 (your numbers) is gloating. I'm sure you would see it differently if the tables were turned. >>



    Please read my first statement. I was telling him that I was crossing the coin to PCGS. That is when he picked up a PCGS price guide and discovered that it is worth $6900 by PCGS. I did not tell him that it was worth anything. He looked at the sticker code on the coin and priced it to me at $1700. Actually the coin list for $1750 by NGC. I was making sure of myself if I am buying a coin to cross of this calibur, I am going to inspect it all around. I really think he never paid much attention to the coin he had. It is just a price tag to him not a coin.
  • AU58WALKERSAU58WALKERS Posts: 3,562 ✭
    OUT the scum sucking botttom feeder.
    "Everyday above ground is a good day"

  • prenumprenum Posts: 254
    His price was $1,700 for it. I thought for about 15 seconds and reached in pocket to buy it from him. As I was counting out the money for it I was making a comment about tranfering from NGC to PCGS for my registry set. Before I knew it he was looking in his PCGS price guide and said "I can't sell it to you now". Of course I asked why and he said " It's work $6900 in a PCGS slab".
    Don Willis
    Premium Numismatics, Inc.
    myurl
    800-596-COIN
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Has anybody else have a similar situation?

    I had a similar experience on a gem MS65 PCGS Barber quarter that was a slightly better date. I was offered the coin at $2600 at a show and then started to check pricing and pops. I had a similar coin in my set with similar pops yet it only listed for $1500. I couldn't figure out why this one was $1000 more on CDN. In looking up the pops I see that they are pretty close. I tell the dealer that I'm probably going to pass because there are better values in the series....ie...my coin. He asks what date I have and then he looks them both up. Upon seeing the pop of 13 for MS65's on his coin he exclaims: "wow, I never knew the pops on this were that low, only 13 coins." He then takes the coin back and says the price is now $3500. I nearly gag (and chuckle to myself). I quickly exit and have barely given that dealer the time of day since.

    What was very ironic is that the coin was consigned to him. A month later I see the same coin in a walking dealer's box and the price quoted to me was $2400....I still passed! Over 6 months later the coin was back with dealer X and still unsold. I had a nice laugh.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    The way the story was told I can't see any defense for the dealer. Once he quotes a price and it is accepted, the trasfer of funds is a formality, IMHO.

    We all know how the crossing game goes and for the dealer to assume it will cross based on a buyer's mumblings is rediculous. Those eager to fault the buyer for making such comments have very clear hindsight and seem to enjoy rubbing salt into a wound.

    This is a small world community so I understand why the buyer might not want to burn bridges behind him but I certainly would like to know the dealer.

    I had a similar, but opposite, situation happen to me at long beach. A dealer made me an offer for a coin and I said I wanted to think about it and walked away. When I came back an hour later he had changed his mind (it wasn't quite that simple, he got new information on the coin which neither he nor I was aware of previously). I explained to him that I understood that his offer was only good when made and I had passed at that time. Now if I'd said ok while standing there I would have expected him to live by his offer. As it was, I didn't fault him at all.

    --Jerry
  • habaracahabaraca Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭✭✭
    well I for one feel if you don't warn the members here you are aiding and protecting his behavior.

    and HOPEFULLY PCGS WILL BODY BAG IT...
  • prenumprenum Posts: 254
    You obviously knew more about the coin (series) than did the dealer. You're probably right - to him it was a price tag. But - you raised a major red flag when you told him you were buying the coin to cross it to PCGS. He obviously never considered that, and also, may not have had the expertise to evalute wether it would cross or not. You gave all that (your knowledge) away.
    Don Willis
    Premium Numismatics, Inc.
    myurl
    800-596-COIN
  • coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the dealer had to look at the PCGS price guide in order to make that decision, I'd say he's clueless anyway and doesn't deserve your business. Maybe, just maybe if he can cross the coin, he'll find the dealers that reported that wack price and they'll be happy to cough up the extra $5200. image

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As I was counting out the money for it I was making a comment about tranfering from NGC to PCGS for my registry set

    Saying that you could possible transfer it from to NGC to PCGS for your REGISTRY SET--is a tipoff. Once he heard "REGISTRY SET" he got excited and thought that if it is a registry set coin it must be worth a lot more..Sometimes you should just make the deal and be quiet and run. At this point he thought you were (and you probably are) an expert and immediately knew he could possibly get a lot more money for it.



    You have absolutely no beef. How naive.

    image
    a deal is a deal --and in MHO this was a done deal when he quoted you the price and the money was on the table
    image
  • CoinKing1969CoinKing1969 Posts: 350


    << <i>You obviously knew more about the coin (series) than did the dealer. You're probably right - to him it was a price tag. But - you raised a major red flag when you told him you were buying the coin to cross it to PCGS. He obviously never considered that, and also, may not have had the expertise to evalute wether it would cross or not. You gave all that (your knowledge) away. >>



    This I would agree on. The only thing I am bringing up is the business ethics. If you were the dealer and I asked you the price on your coin and you priced it. Should you sell it to the buyer? Even if you still knew how much you had in it and still going to make a profit.
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That made me mad that sucks not right, that is why I will cherry pick any dealer and not tell him that I did. They need to do ther own work and see what they are selling not ask customers to grade the coins for them, if they need to do that they need to stop selling coins. image


    Hoard the keys.
  • AU58WALKERSAU58WALKERS Posts: 3,562 ✭
    "a deal is a deal --and in MHO this was a done deal when he quoted you the price and the money was on the table "

    this is why once a dealer quotes me a price that I accept,
    the coin goes in one pocket as the money comes out of another.


    "Everyday above ground is a good day"

  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777 ✭
    We all know how the crossing game goes and for the dealer to assume it will cross based on a buyer's mumblings is rediculous.

    This is totally true- but it reminds me of a comment I read earlier about dealers being paranoid about collectors knowing more than them, and taking easy money from them- this dealer is probably worried about being stung by a smart collector, and has obviously poor business skills. And I agree with others that it would be helpful to know who this guy is- reporting on someone's public behavior does not mean that the reporter has lowered their ethical standards to the level of the reportee...
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
  • DoogyDoogy Posts: 4,508 ✭
    two thoughts pop to mind:

    1. this is another example of 'buying the plastic' as this wasn't intended for an upgrade, but a 'cross'. Another example of how the registry game and plastic collecting is artificially raising prices.

    2. the dealer doesn't have a leg to stand on. who is the professional and who is the collector? the dealer does this for a living, should know what his inventory is worth, and shouldn't care less if the buyer says to him: "i have a buyer that will give me a bazillion dollars for this one!" there is always a buyer willing to possibly pay more, why should the dealer care what happens to it after it is purchased: whether "crossed", re-graded by NGC, sold to another, or melted for scrap.

  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,126 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CoinKing1969:

    Please turn on your private message link.

    Too bad what happened, happened. I would like the opportunity to avoid that dealer as well.

    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As told I do not believe this story......
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rather than avoid the dealer it sounds like we should be patronizing them. Next time they underprice a coin, shut up, buy it and wait for the next one. Don't educate dealers that can't grade...let them figure it out as they are the "pro."

    What's their name so I can get in on the gravy train too?

    And on the flip side, how about a dealer who agrees to a deal, hands over a check, then later backs out?

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,704 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>What makes you (or him) so sure the coin will cross? >>



    I was pretty sure myself and I guess I had so much confidence the dealer did too.image >>



    The coin isn't supposed to go up a grade until payment has been tendered. image
    Tempus fugit.
  • CoinKing1969CoinKing1969 Posts: 350


    << <i>two thoughts pop to mind:

    1. this is another example of 'buying the plastic' as this wasn't intended for an upgraded, but a 'cross'. Another example of how the registry game and plastic collecting is artificially raising prices.

    2. the dealer doesn't have a leg to stand on. who is the professional and who is the collector? the dealer does this for a living, should know what his inventory is worth, and shouldn't care less if the buyer says to him: "i have a buyer that will give me a bazillion dollars for this one!" there is always a buyer willing to possibly pay more, why should the dealer care what happens to it after it is purchased: whether "crossed", re-graded by NGC, sold to another, or melted for scrap. >>



    Exactly my thoughts!!!!image
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is no excuse for the dealer's behavior. If I knew who it was I would avoid dealing with him.
    Tempus fugit.
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please name the dealer.

    Thanks
  • prenumprenum Posts: 254
    When I quote a price to someone, I consider it a 'deal' until they walk away from the table. But this isn't about me. I do my homework on the coins I sell. Occasionally I'll have something that I don't know alot about in my inventory, but if a savy collector/dealer takes advantage of my ignorance it really doesn't bother me. [ It may incentivize me to learn something about the coin in question!!]

    But most people are lazy - collectors and dealers alike. Everyone is looking for someone else to do the work for them. That's why knowledge is power.

    Most people are also greedy - collectors and dealers alike. What looks like a good deal one minute can look like a big loser a minute later if new information comes to light.

    That's what this is all about. I buy coins all day long based on what I know. I count on my knowledge to give me a competitive advantage.

    That's what should have happened in this situation.
    Don Willis
    Premium Numismatics, Inc.
    myurl
    800-596-COIN
  • ToneloverTonelover Posts: 1,554 ✭
    The lengths that many coin dealers will go to in order to be ridiculously lame never ceases to amaze me.
  • prenumprenum Posts: 254
    BTW - anyone refusing to do business with this dealer is 'cutting off their nose to spite their face'.

    If the guy doesn't know what his inventory is worth, why wouldn't you want to do business with him? Would you rather buy from someone who is an expert in the series?

    Are you going to get on your moral high horse?
    Don Willis
    Premium Numismatics, Inc.
    myurl
    800-596-COIN
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,704 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>BTW - anyone refusing to do business with this dealer is 'cutting off their nose to spite their face'.

    If the guy doesn't know what his inventory is worth, why wouldn't you want to do business with him? Would you rather buy from someone who is an expert in the series?

    Are you going to get on your moral high horse? >>




    I'm willing to do business with anyone who isn't a crook. I avoid doing business with
    people who don't honor their prices or change the rules after the fact. In other words,
    in order to do business with such a dealer there has to be a lot more profit.

    I would avoid doing business with him. It simply saves the headaches and there's less
    chance to come up very short.
    Tempus fugit.
  • RRRR Posts: 630 ✭✭✭
    Why protect the dealer?
    Who is it?
    Why are you afraid to name him?
    <html />
  • CoinKing1969CoinKing1969 Posts: 350


    << <i>Please name the dealer.

    Thanks >>



    Please remember in my first statement I will not mention the dealer, show or coin. I would be going back on my "word". Maybe the dealer and I both learned something from this. I don't wish nothing bad for him. I am just seeing a lot of bad business by people and Coin shows used to be educational for all and FUN. It seems that we might be losing some of this by dealers not having enough knowledge of collecting. Some might be losing the total grasp why people actually come to coin shows. BUT their is still some good shows and dealers out their on the floors. image
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very unprofessional behavior on the part of the dealer, bordering on unethical.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>BTW - anyone refusing to do business with this dealer is 'cutting off their nose to spite their face'.

    If the guy doesn't know what his inventory is worth, why wouldn't you want to do business with him? Would you rather buy from someone who is an expert in the series?

    Are you going to get on your moral high horse? >>

    How can you do business with him if he give you a price and then does not sell it to you.


    Hoard the keys.
  • prenumprenum Posts: 254
    Coin shows used to be educational for all and FUN.

    somehow I am reminded of an old saying ..... which I think was about boys, bb guns, and frogs...

    "while the boys shoot the frogs in fun, the frogs die in ernest".

    Don't ever forget that while it may be fun to collect coins, for the dealer whose living depends on selling coins it is much more serious.

    I'm not making excuses for the dealer in question. Just pointing out the obvious.

    Don Willis
    Premium Numismatics, Inc.
    myurl
    800-596-COIN

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