This may slow down the scammers but they can still list their coins and show full pictures of their slabs all they have to do is not mention the name. All a bidiot has to do is look at the picture of the slab to see the assigned grade so I still expect to see a lot of them for sale.
That's true, but their inability to load up the title with frequently used key words will reduce traffic to their listings. Reduced traffic means lower prices, and fewer newbs getting taken.
i think the only way this will most of us will be less crappyslabs in our search results. i only sell pcgs with an occasional ngc or icg, and some raw. i use photobucket free and works like a charm, i pay no fees to ebay for listing large photos. these changes don`t bother me at all, but i`m sure its bothering the SGS sellers
Grading coins is a science Selling them is a business Buying them never got easier because now we have Coins for the DENSE . But as it were... A liar will just figure out a new way to tell a lie.
So an honest seller on Ebay using official ANA grading standards cannot list an AU58 Morgan dollar as such in the title even though AU58 is a recognized "official" ANA grade? Are they aware that for some issues, an AU58 is worth 5 times the money of an AU50? And in the title AND the description, the seller cannot reference current market prices such as Coin World Coin Values, CDN or auction results? Will buyers know the subtle difference between "very choice AU" and "Very Choice AU?" Will the prohibition of numerical grades on raw coins bring back the bad old days of the terms "borderline Uncirculated" and "virtually Uncirculated," which can mislead buyers into assuming such AU58 coins are worth more than they really are?
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i> I understand what they're trying to do but those last two points seem a little draconian. And if I'm PCI or SEGS I'm on the phone screaming at someone over this.
Definately a strong step in the right direction. Ebay wins some points from me on that one. I am a bit concerned that all my current store listings will be pulled because I do not have the cert # in the title. It will be a lot of work revising all of that. Also, if the cert # has to be in the title, there will not be much room left for a decent description. It is a small price to pay, to see things cleaned up a bit!
<< <i>Do PCI and SEGS have authenticity guarantees? >>
Does PCGS have a written authenticity guarantee? If so, where can I find it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>So an honest seller on Ebay using official ANA grading standards cannot list an AU58 Morgan dollar as such in the title even though AU58 is a recognized "official" ANA grade? Are they aware that for some issues, an AU58 is worth 5 times the money of an AU50? And in the title AND the description, the seller cannot reference current market prices such as Coin World Coin Values, CDN or auction results? Will buyers know the subtle difference between "very choice AU" and "Very Choice AU?" Will the prohibition of numerical grades on raw coins bring back the bad old days of the terms "borderline Uncirculated" and "virtually Uncirculated," which can mislead buyers into assuming such AU58 coins are worth more than they really are? >>
All that's true Frank. The scammers ruined it for everyone, as they usually do. Just send your coins in for slabbing.
The Chinese counterfeiters should love it. Now they can some out with some counterfeit coins that are slabbed in counterfeit holders and have a ready supply of certification numbers for whatever they need.
You of course realize that eBay will use their own system to inform individual sellers like us of this, and until they do, some will remain sceptical. After all, it hits them where it hurts in some cases. I believe you, though. Interesting, isn't it, this is how the world was informed of the-venture-that-may-or-may-not-come-to-fruition-on-Sept 1. Or is it Oct 1? Nov 1? Anyway, that was also a case of 1 person getting the inside info and using the forum to get the word out. Somehow I think eBay will be a little more efficient than that, though, comes the time.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Considering all the dissent on almost any subject here, I'm happy to see that most (yes, not all, but most) posters agree with the new Ebay program. (at least as a general concept)
It is a needed step; more details will come out next week, I'm sure; and in general, I believe most of you will agree, that it was necessary, and the new Ebay program will be, overall, benefitial to the collector base out there.
I'm also aware that no matter what Ebay does, with whatever rules/regulations it finally enacts, it will not keep a certain percentage of any Ebay players happy - you simply can NOT keep EVERYONE happy - kinda like Democracy.
If you're bored with the summer doldrums, I think next week will wake you up for Autumn!
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
Where was it confirmed? I have checked e-bay and have not been able to find ANYTHING about it. I have also checked my e-bay "in box," nothing there either. If this is a policy that is going to go into effect in what, 3 days, why is there not more info. getting out other than one person saying they got an e-mail? So please ScarsdaleCoin, show ALL of us where this information can be found.
J.Cordeiro "I has a bucket." - Minazo. Minazo the LOLRUS, 1994-2005
<< <i>So an honest seller on Ebay using official ANA grading standards cannot list an AU58 Morgan dollar as such in the title even though AU58 is a recognized "official" ANA grade? Are they aware that for some issues, an AU58 is worth 5 times the money of an AU50? And in the title AND the description, the seller cannot reference current market prices such as Coin World Coin Values, CDN or auction results? Will buyers know the subtle difference between "very choice AU" and "Very Choice AU?" Will the prohibition of numerical grades on raw coins bring back the bad old days of the terms "borderline Uncirculated" and "virtually Uncirculated," which can mislead buyers into assuming such AU58 coins are worth more than they really are? >>
This is exactly one of my concerns. A 'casualty' of the new policy will be some very legit sellers that accurately describe their coins. There are many, many coins where the numerical grade difference makes a huge difference in price and desirability. According to the new rules.... we cannot describe in the title.
<< <i>This is exactly one of my concerns. A 'casualty' of the new policy will be some very legit sellers that accurately describe their coins. There are many, many coins where the numerical grade difference makes a huge difference in price and desirability. According to the new rules.... we cannot describe in the title. >>
How about "1893-S Morgan Dollar, High End AU"
Of course you could always add "L@@K!!" and "W@W!!" to get the buyers attention.
I used to be somebody, now I'm just a coin collector. Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
upon hearing this news, I just emailed him to let him know to kiss his 600 current auctions 'bye-bye'! >>
I guess you didn't see this part...
As of this time the policy is not being enforced and enforcement may not be immediate as we work to make sure everything is working correctly.
morris
"Repent, for the kindom of heaven is at hand." ** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! ** Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY 28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST TEMECULA, CA 92590 (951) 757-0334
Sounds like a bunch of much ado about nothing....I doubt this will have much impact on what they are targeting.
Plus, not being able to use numeric grades in the title for raw coins is completely ridiculous. I have been complaining about this to my rep for some time, with a promise for a change and nothing. If the above policy change is true and nothing is being done about the numeric grade I am going to be making my reps ears bleed.
morris
"Repent, for the kindom of heaven is at hand." ** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! ** Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY 28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST TEMECULA, CA 92590 (951) 757-0334
<< <i>This is exactly one of my concerns. A 'casualty' of the new policy will be some very legit sellers that accurately describe their coins. >>
<sarcasm>You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs, right?
Besides, if this policy is half as effective in dealing with self slabbers as the current policy in place to eliminate the sale of counterfeits, things will be cleaned up in no time at all.</sarcasm>
Seriously, though... the problem I see is that eBay is trying to manage the sale of coins without hiring anybody who knows anything about coins. eBay can write all the policy they like, but if they don't understand the subject, what do you suppose the odds are, that they're going to get the results they desire?
I still have not received official notifaction from E-Bay on this. I have auctions going up Sat (PCGS and NGC slabs). I like doing the one pic with both sides of the coin and cert in the middle. I take it this doesn't cut it any more. Also do you have to include the cert in the title? That sounds very stupid!
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
<< <i> I also agree with SeanQ above.....if there is no grade, why not be able to list SEGS or PCI (or whoever) in the title......at that point, you are saying it is slabbed/logo'ed but you are stopping short of a grade. >>
I really don't mind their limitations on what is allowed in the title, since I'd imagine that is what most people search by. I have a bigger problem with not being allowed to put that information, or price guide references, or auction price realized histories, in the description.
I dont know... I completely understand what eBay is trying to do, and given what I collect and sell, the new rules really won't affect me much. I think I just resent the fact that eBay has to go to these lengths to protect buyers who, with a minimum of effort, should be able to protect themselves.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>I think I just resent the fact that eBay has to go to these lengths to protect buyers who, with a minimum of effort, should be able to protect themselves. >>
If you're bidding on eBay, you obviously have access to untold mountains of information and opinions available through the internet. How hard is it, anyway, to do some searches on google, and maybe check out a coin message board or two (or even the coin collecting message board on eBay, for that matter) and ask the people there what they think about "XYZ Grading Company"?
An unintended consequence of this sort of policy (protecting buyers from *whatever*, when it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to figure it out on your own) is that, rather than teaching buyers that they need to become informed about the things they're buying, buyers are instead being trained that somebody else is always going to be there to do the work for them. This is probably not the best way to increase the number of educated collectors, but then again, encouraging collectors to educate themselves is probably not one of eBay's main priorities.
<< <i>I've cracked out every coin bought in a PCI slab and have never had one bagged at PCGS. One turned out to be a top pop MS66 Philippine Peso Commem.
Put PCI in! >>
This is a PCI MS66, which is typical of their overgrading:
This is why they are out.
If they could make an exception for the old green PCI holders, that would be fine, as the grading then was generally consistent with PCGS/NGC. However, it might be too confusing or difficut to enforce an exception for PCI old green slabs.
While I admire the 'intent' of this type of policy.... I am skeptical that it will do much good.
Those who sell the off brand 'slabs' will continue to find a way to do so.
Those who perpetrate the scams on eBay will continue to do so.
The good guys will have more restrictions on their abilities to effectively sell.
AND... most important..... those individuals who are 'prone' to falling for these items.... will continue to do so despite anything that eBay, this forum, or the government can or will do. So it has been since the start of mankind and so it will continue to be so.
eBay... please protect us from ourselves! big government.... please protect us from ourselves!
Comments
<META NAME="keywords" content="PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, NCS, CERTIFIED, MS70, MS69, MS68, MS67">
That's true, but their inability to load up the title with frequently used key words will reduce traffic to their listings. Reduced traffic means lower prices, and fewer newbs getting taken.
Russ, NCNE
edited to fix .....
Photobucket, Imageshack, and Pichoster are free. You can insert all the images you need for free.
I am OK with the ebay rules, but this is one by-product of the "need to put a picture of the slab" rule.
What, no Hallmark or Green PCI 10 digits?
roadrunner
First off with a pic like that who would bid.
Second an AU PR60, what!
Hell, I don't need to exercise.....I get enough just pushing my luck.
<< <i>About UNC PR-60 with no problems. >>
Somebody should tell the seller that a coin only lands in an NCS holder when it does have problems.
Russ, NCNE
Unfortunately ABOMB isn't going anywhere, according to the new rules he can no longer
use MS70 in the title. Guess he wasn't that good in bed.
Selling them is a business
Buying them never got easier because now we have Coins for the DENSE .
But as it were...
A liar will just figure out a new way to tell a lie.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I assume that the name of the product is NOT allowed in the title.......
Selling raw U.S. coins? Can no longer reference Greysheet, Redbook, or trends pricing even in the description.
Selling raw World coins? Can no longer reference Krause, Charlton, or Spink pricing even in the description.
Considering that the vast majority of world coins are sold raw as opposed to certified, this is potentially a big deal to a lot of people.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>
<< <i>PCI, SEGS, and ICCS should NOT be excluded from the allowable slab company list. That's just braindead! >>
2007 PNG Survey Results
Outstanding:
Superior: NGC, PCGS
Good: ANACS, ICG
Poor: PCI, SEGS
Unacceptable: ACCGS, ACG, HCGS, NTC, SGS
You mean it's braindead to exclude grading services that professional numismatists rank as "poor"?
Do PCI and SEGS have authenticity guarantees? >>
Did you accidently or purposely leave out ICCS??
<< <i>
<< <i>
I understand what they're trying to do but those last two points seem a little draconian. And if I'm PCI or SEGS I'm on the phone screaming at someone over this.
Sean Reynolds >>
Boo Freaking Hoo. Why don't they start grading properly instead? >>
Grading to what standard??
And, do all the other TPG's grade to the same standard??
<< <i>Do PCI and SEGS have authenticity guarantees? >>
Does PCGS have a written authenticity guarantee? If so, where can I find it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>So an honest seller on Ebay using official ANA grading standards cannot list an AU58 Morgan dollar as such in the title even though AU58 is a recognized "official" ANA grade? Are they aware that for some issues, an AU58 is worth 5 times the money of an AU50? And in the title AND the description, the seller cannot reference current market prices such as Coin World Coin Values, CDN or auction results? Will buyers know the subtle difference between "very choice AU" and "Very Choice AU?" Will the prohibition of numerical grades on raw coins bring back the bad old days of the terms "borderline Uncirculated" and "virtually Uncirculated," which can mislead buyers into assuming such AU58 coins are worth more than they really are? >>
All that's true Frank. The scammers ruined it for everyone, as they usually do. Just send your coins in for slabbing.
Free Trial
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Seems to me that the third-world grading companies and
sellers of their holders will now have to find REAL jobs as the
days of easy money are over...
<< <i>They just called me today and siad it was only 5 TPG's allowed in the title.
p.s.
RBinTex, who called and said it was only 5 TPG's? E-Bay?
"I has a bucket." - Minazo.
Minazo the LOLRUS, 1994-2005
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
subject here, I'm happy to see that most
(yes, not all, but most) posters agree
with the new Ebay program. (at least as a
general concept)
It is a needed step; more details will come
out next week, I'm sure; and in general,
I believe most of you will agree, that it was
necessary, and the new Ebay program will
be, overall, benefitial to the collector base out there.
I'm also aware that no matter what Ebay does,
with whatever rules/regulations it finally
enacts, it will not keep a certain percentage of any
Ebay players happy - you simply can NOT
keep EVERYONE happy - kinda like Democracy.
If you're bored with the summer doldrums, I think
next week will wake you up for Autumn!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Put PCI in!
<< <i>not a rumor it was confirmed by ebay >>
Where was it confirmed?
I have checked e-bay and have not been able to find ANYTHING about it.
I have also checked my e-bay "in box," nothing there either.
If this is a policy that is going to go into effect in what, 3 days, why is there not more info. getting out other than one person saying they got an e-mail?
So please ScarsdaleCoin, show ALL of us where this information can be found.
"I has a bucket." - Minazo.
Minazo the LOLRUS, 1994-2005
<< <i>So an honest seller on Ebay using official ANA grading standards cannot list an AU58 Morgan dollar as such in the title even though AU58 is a recognized "official" ANA grade? Are they aware that for some issues, an AU58 is worth 5 times the money of an AU50? And in the title AND the description, the seller cannot reference current market prices such as Coin World Coin Values, CDN or auction results? Will buyers know the subtle difference between "very choice AU" and "Very Choice AU?" Will the prohibition of numerical grades on raw coins bring back the bad old days of the terms "borderline Uncirculated" and "virtually Uncirculated," which can mislead buyers into assuming such AU58 coins are worth more than they really are? >>
This is exactly one of my concerns. A 'casualty' of the new policy will be some very legit sellers that accurately describe their coins. There are many, many coins where the numerical grade difference makes a huge difference in price and desirability. According to the new rules.... we cannot describe in the title.
<< <i>This is exactly one of my concerns. A 'casualty' of the new policy will be some very legit sellers that accurately describe their coins. There are many, many coins where the numerical grade difference makes a huge difference in price and desirability. According to the new rules.... we cannot describe in the title. >>
How about "1893-S Morgan Dollar, High End AU"
Of course you could always add "L@@K!!" and "W@W!!" to get the buyers attention.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>
<< <i>I guess Centsles has a bit of a problem....
upon hearing this news, I just emailed him to let him know to kiss his 600 current auctions 'bye-bye'! >>
I guess you didn't see this part...
As of this time the policy is not being enforced and enforcement may not
be immediate as we work to make sure everything is working correctly.
morris
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
Plus, not being able to use numeric grades in the title for raw coins is completely ridiculous. I have been complaining about this to my rep for some time, with a promise for a change and nothing. If the above policy change is true and nothing is being done about the numeric grade I am going to be making my reps ears bleed.
morris
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
<< <i>This is exactly one of my concerns. A 'casualty' of the new policy will be some very legit sellers that accurately describe their coins. >>
<sarcasm>You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs, right?
Besides, if this policy is half as effective in dealing with self slabbers as the current policy in place to eliminate the sale of counterfeits, things will be cleaned up in no time at all.</sarcasm>
Seriously, though... the problem I see is that eBay is trying to manage the sale of coins without hiring anybody who knows anything about coins. eBay can write all the policy they like, but if they don't understand the subject, what do you suppose the odds are, that they're going to get the results they desire?
Doogy replied:
upon hearing this news, I just emailed him to let him know to kiss his 600 current auctions 'bye-bye'!
Now that's class for you folks!
<< <i>I am a bit concerned that all my current store listings will be pulled because I do not have the cert # in the title. >>
There is no requirement in the new policy to put the cert number in the title.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
I also agree with SeanQ above.....if there is no grade, why not be able to list SEGS or PCI (or whoever) in the title......at that point, you are saying it is slabbed/logo'ed but you are stopping short of a grade. >>
I really don't mind their limitations on what is allowed in the title, since I'd imagine that is what most people search by. I have a bigger problem with not being allowed to put that information, or price guide references, or auction price realized histories, in the description.
I dont know... I completely understand what eBay is trying to do, and given what I collect and sell, the new rules really won't affect me much. I think I just resent the fact that eBay has to go to these lengths to protect buyers who, with a minimum of effort, should be able to protect themselves.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>Has anyone else at all confirmed this rumor? >>
I have. Spoke with my account rep yesterday and it's all true and will be effective on Monday the 17th.
<< <i><< I guess Centsles has a bit of a problem....
Doogy replied:
upon hearing this news, I just emailed him to let him know to kiss his 600 current auctions 'bye-bye'!
Now that's class for you folks! >>
<< <i>I think I just resent the fact that eBay has to go to these lengths to protect buyers who, with a minimum of effort, should be able to protect themselves. >>
If you're bidding on eBay, you obviously have access to untold mountains of information and opinions available through the internet. How hard is it, anyway, to do some searches on google, and maybe check out a coin message board or two (or even the coin collecting message board on eBay, for that matter) and ask the people there what they think about "XYZ Grading Company"?
An unintended consequence of this sort of policy (protecting buyers from *whatever*, when it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to figure it out on your own) is that, rather than teaching buyers that they need to become informed about the things they're buying, buyers are instead being trained that somebody else is always going to be there to do the work for them. This is probably not the best way to increase the number of educated collectors, but then again, encouraging collectors to educate themselves is probably not one of eBay's main priorities.
<< <i>buyers are instead being trained that somebody else is always going to be there to do the work for them. >>
In coin collecting, that already happened.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>In coin collecting, that already happened. >>
True enough, and, considering that the policy under discussion is regarding third party grading services, rather ironic, don't you think?
<< <i>I've cracked out every coin bought in a PCI slab and have never had one bagged at PCGS. One turned out to be a top pop MS66 Philippine Peso Commem.
Put PCI in! >>
This is a PCI MS66, which is typical of their overgrading:
This is why they are out.
If they could make an exception for the old green PCI holders, that would be fine, as the grading then was generally consistent with PCGS/NGC. However, it might be too confusing or difficut to enforce an exception for PCI old green slabs.
Russ, NCNE
I completely agree, especially since you can put the grade in the SUBTITLE for a fee, or in the body of the text.
Those who sell the off brand 'slabs' will continue to find a way to do so.
Those who perpetrate the scams on eBay will continue to do so.
The good guys will have more restrictions on their abilities to effectively sell.
AND... most important..... those individuals who are 'prone' to falling for these items.... will continue to do so despite anything that eBay, this forum, or the government can or will do. So it has been since the start of mankind and so it will continue to be so.
eBay... please protect us from ourselves!
big government.... please protect us from ourselves!