I need opinions on a potentially delicate matter.

Russ

I was browsing through proof Kennedy registry sets, (surprise!), and there is a set that has an artificially frosted cameo in it. My first inclination was to click the contact link and let the owner know, but I didn't because I'm not sure if I should. So, let me ask the brain trust. If you had a worked coin in your set, how would you react if you got an eMail out of the blue telling you that?

Russ, NCNE

GoldenEyeNumismatics

an artificially frosted coin---in a PCGS holder??? No way

But seriously, I'd tell him. He might wind up getting angry at you, but the truth is what is important.

LanLord

Probably the same way I felt when I realized the PCGS graded 64 PROOF CAM I own was worked.

I said SH!T, and then shrugged it off.

dwssws

as long as you could prove it to me I would want to know!

ColonialCoinUnion

Not all Registry participants are as open minded as you are Russ, and I would think that receiving such an email may cause some other people to 1) freak-out, 2) go into a deep state of denial or 3) shoot the messenger.

I was going to include '4) thank you and send you a nice gift of appreciation' but I can't see that happening.

So I'd keep walking if I were you.

Russ

<< <i>an artificially frosted coin---in a PCGS holder??? No way >>



I've encountered several examples, and still have a couple on hand.

Russ, NCNE

TwoSides2aCoin

I guess the question would be :

TorinoCobra71

LINK?

If you can provide proof positive that it is a "worked" coin that tell them and prevent the evidence to them.....

TorinoCobra71

BAJJERFAN

I guess I'd want to know so that I could send it in under whatever review/guarantee service is appropriate. That would be better than finding it out when you have them up for sale.

OR

You could PM them and say Hey You, BAJJERFAN says you got an artificially frosted coin in your set.

clarkbar04

Do it.

ricko

Russ... if you do it, and submit it with technical evidence in a professional manner, although I am sure the owner will be upset, they should recieve the information graciously.... that being said, you are dealing with the human animal... so all bets are off... Cheers, RickO

BAJJERFAN

Contact HRH or Ron Guth and see what they say. Let them contact the owner of the coin.

mepot

I don't think I'm part of the 'brain trust',but I think if you did approach the set owner,

it would all be in the delivery.Instead of declaring "you have a doctored coin",possibly asking about the coin,

or suggesting you have a question about it ,would get a better response,and open up a discussion

about it.Since you are the 'Kennedy King,' you might help this person recognize something they missed.

Russ

<< <i>You could PM them and say Hey You, BAJJERFAN says you got an artificially frosted coin in your set. >>



I don't know if they're a forum member as I don't recognize the name. If they were, I'd have no problem with a PM since that's not as out of the blue.

Russ, NCNE

291fifth

It's not your problem. Don't make it your problem.

Petescorner

If I were the owner, I would tell you to MYOB. It's in a PCGS slab and that's good enough for me.

RYK

Darn! I thought you were going to ask us what you should buy Biddlesbank for his birthday! ;

I personally think that you should inform the set owner and perhaps include a couple of links from this forum on the topic (maybe even this one). I think that people collecting coins in a vacuum do not get to learn all of the subtleties, and while he might be upset hearing from you, he will appreciate it in the long run.

NumisOxide

I'd tell them too. You're just trying to help them out.

FatMan

I'm sure PCGS will want to get the coin out of their holder. Send CoinKing or HRH a pm with a link to the coin. Let them take care of it. Yep, that should do it.

RYK

<< <i>I'm sure PCGS will want to get the coin out of their holder. Send CoinKing or HRH a pm with a link to the coin. Let them take care of it. Yep, that should do it. >>



No, kidding aside, what should he do?

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>It's not your problem. Don't make it your problem. >>



Lotta truth in them thar words.

50cents

I would want to know.

StrikeOutXXX

<< <i>Contact HRH or Ron Guth and see what they say. Let them contact the owner of the coin. >>



I would present all the evidence you have to support this to them, and let them decide to agree and issue a statement, start buying them back, or find the person responsible, or dispute it, but at least they know about it.

I would also start an informative thread on the forums with all this info, so at the least, everyone will know what to look for. Once the thread got some replies and rolling, maybe an e-mail to the person letting them know the thread may be of interest to them. That way you don't have to spell out which/what coin you think is bad, let him/her make that decision.

grabba

Any chance you could provide a picture of the coin without any reference numbers or identifications?

ziggy29

Tough one. If I thought I had recourse against the seller, I'd want to know. If not, then...probably not. But then again, if I could be made whole by a TPG guarantee I'd probably want to know in any case. Assuming the "tip" came from someone who knew what they were talking about.

DHeath

Tell them. They deserve our honesty, want it or not, if the set is displayed publicly. JMO

grabba

<< <i>Any chance you could provide a picture of the coin without any reference numbers or identifications? >>



Don't bother...I found it.

Zoins

You can always post the link/photo here and have a discussion about it. Once enough people have offered their opinion someone can inform the owner. That way it's not one person's opinion.

Russ

<< <i>I would present all the evidence you have to support this to them, and let them decide to agree and issue a statement, start buying them back >>



It's only one coin, and I already know they don't hesitate to buy these back when submitted for grade guarantee. They've bought back two from me. I should note, though, that the one that is the topic of this thread isn't a very expensive coin; market value of less than $100.



<< <i>Any chance you could provide a picture of the coin without any reference numbers or identifications? >>



I think that might make it too easy to figure out which set it is. But, the coin looks a lot like this:




Except, of course, that it's a Kennedy.

Russ, NCNE

Jcarney

<< <i>I was browsing through proof Kennedy registry sets, (surprise!), and there is a set that has an artificially frosted cameo in it. My first inclination was to click the contact link and let the owner know, but I didn't because I'm not sure if I should. So, let me ask the brain trust. If you had a worked coin in your set, how would you react if you got an eMail out of the blue telling you that?

Russ, NCNE >>



At first, I'd probably be ticked off and insulted. I'd dig into though and be appeciative to the person who informed me of the problem if it turned out the coin was bad. If it turned out the coin was good, I'd be pretty pissed.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>If I were the owner, I would tell you to MYOB. It's in a PCGS slab and that's good enough for me. >>



I guess my question would have been more to the point of :

"Sir, how do you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that this coin is, in fact, "artificially frosted" ?
This goes in line with 291fifth's comment. I'd steer clear.

RYK

<< <i>

<< <i>Any chance you could provide a picture of the coin without any reference numbers or identifications? >>



Don't bother...I found it.

>>



Yeah, I agree. That one is horrible.

Russ

<< <i>If it turned out the coin was good, I'd be pretty pissed. >>



The coin is bad, of that I have no doubt.

Russ, NCNE

Russ

Grabba and RYK can KMA.

Russ, NCNE

grabba

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Any chance you could provide a picture of the coin without any reference numbers or identifications? >>



Don't bother...I found it.

>>



Yeah, I agree. That one is horrible. >>



lol...I would give my left nut and probably half my right....ah hell...I've been neutered so I would give them both since they are for just decoration now.... to own that coin.

Longacre

Personally I would not.

grabba

<< <i>Grabba and RYK can KMA.

Russ, NCNE >>





Is that frosting draining down the reverse of that Franklin?

RYK

<< <i> Grabba and RYK can KMA.

Russ, NCNE
>>



I knew that Grabba was pulling your Leghorn™ and wanted to go along with it.

Zoins

If PCGS is known to make good on this type of problem I'd want to know if it was my coin.

Russ

<< <i>Is that frosting draining down the reverse of that Franklin? >>



Yep, that's one of the telltale signs. When these are first done they look fine, but after a while the fake frost leaches in to the fields.

Russ, NCNE

Edscoin

I would want someone to tell me if it was my coin.
Unless of course I was the one who doctored it in the first place.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>If PCGS is known to make good on this type of problem I'd want to know if it was my coin. >>


That's a nice answer and very diplomatic. I like it !
And if I were PCGS, I'd sure want that doctor working for me to help with questionable coins.

coinkat

Russ:

I have the highest respect for your abilities in connection with grading Kennedy Halves... especially Proof issues. Perhaps the best approach to this is to notify PCGS and let them make the determination after a second review in hand.

While I do not do Registry sets for the competitive aspect, some collectors do and there is sort of a "fairness" issue associated with this which is another reason for the contact to be made through PCGS.

My thoughts from the cheap seats... take them for what they are worth...

slucas

I would would want to know regardless of value. I would let him know (via email) and copy PCGS management on it as well. This i why i spend way too much time reading at this forum... i learn new stuff every day from the experts. Crap, i never heard of artifically frosting of coins, just bakery items. Those pics of kennedy's and the franklin (especially) are extremely helpful to us newbies. Even if nothing becomes of this, i at least got something out of it. Thanks.

LindeDad

Well since you said it is probably a PR69DCam and not one of the higher dollar 70's. I would let them know and let PCGS find them a replacment.

dpoole

I vote yea, Russ.

The owner may know and not care, but the long odds are that he/she does not. It is also fairly certain that he/she will become aware sooner or later, perhaps (disaterously) after they tried to sell it.

Without a doubt, I would want to know. I may deny, I may doubt, but the wheels would start turning, and I would start investigating for myself. In the end, I would be most appreciative, even if my investigation determined for certain and forever that Russ was FOS.

Cam40

Contact HRH or Ron Guth and see what they say. Let them contact the owner of the coin.

etexmike

If it were my coin and in my set I would want to know.

Especially if it was one of the cheaper coins.

-------------

etexmike

gamr0n

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Any chance you could provide a picture of the coin without any reference numbers or identifications? >>



Don't bother...I found it.

>>



Yeah, I agree. That one is horrible. >>



lol...I would give my left nut and probably half my right....ah hell...I've been neutered so I would give them both since they are for just decoration now.... to own that coin. >>



Well then, you are missing the key ingredient to artificially frost a coin...

homerunhall

My advice would be to tell the owner his coin looks funky and might be doctored and advise him that if he's concerned he should send the coin to PCGS and they will take care of the situation under the terms of their grading guarantee.

PCGS grades well over 100,000 coins a month and they do make occasional mistakes. But PCGS stands behind its grading and that's what the grading guarantee is all about.

hrh

jmj3esq

I guess you have your answer, Russ.