Illustrated multiple stage die state study with a kicker!

Cladiator

Photo #1, complete die crack. From edge through letters and back to edge.






Photo #2, retained cud. Complete die crack plus the plane of the die has clearly shifted.






Photo #3, full cud. Complete die crack plus the broken section of die has shifted enough to actually fall from the die and leaving a completely unstruck portion of the coin.







Ok, so this is a really cool die state study showing the progression of a mere crack to it's middle state of a retained cud and to it's late state of complete failure in that area. Pretty interesting stuff if you ask me. The kicker you ask? IT'S ALL ON ONE COIN! Not only is it all on one coin but the three die state stages are all on the same side and they are in order, from left to right, starting at the earliest going to the latest. If someone had tried to make a more straight forward example they couldn't have. When I saw this coin I just had to scoop it up. It's like a numismatic text book all in itself. Now that I've photo'd it, oogled it and posted about it the coin is going to be a surprise package to a buddy of mine that is a Shield Nickel freakazoid. Hope you all got as much of a kick out of this little oddity as I did.

Wolf359

Awesome & cool. Extreme die breaks rock my world too.

Barndog

very cool coin with excellent features. Shield nickels offer so many opportunities to discover die cracks, missing letters, extra leaves, doubling, etc. Thanks for sharing!

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Very interesting

Baley

Post of the day, wonderful coin

CoinAddict

Awesome coin, Rich.

Cladiator

<< <i>Post of the day >>

And to think, it wasn't even a half dime!

pursuitofliberty

<< <i>Post of the day, wonderful coin >>



I have to agree ... what a wonderful, simple and informative display of the differences of a crack, retained and full cud






glad I stopped in tonight!

Pandavab

That is quite an interesting coin there. Your shield nickel friend is going to be in for quite a nice treat.

howards

Cool. I would call your first photo a die break rather than a die crack, as it gets rather thick in places. The distinction is somewhat arbitrary - I use "die crack" for spidery lines. But not to worry: on the reverse you have a much thinner die crack from U (UNITED) to the rim. Not to mention what looks like another rim cud between AMERICA and CENTS.

There also may be a die crack from the right bottom leaf south to the rim. Looks like it in the photo.

Ask your shield nickel freakazoid buddy if he's a member of Yahoo Shield Nickels, where I moderate.

Howard

(same post made across the street)

IGWT

I believe that the Shield freakazoid to whom Clad refers is already a member of the Shield Yahoo Group. I hope he doesn't participate here, too . . . it'd spoil his surprise. Nice coin, Rich. Finding examples of cracks/breaks in three different stages of progression on the same coin is very cool. The Shield 5c series just keeps giving and giving . . .

sbeverly

Interesting coin...Thanks for the picture.

errormaven

Your "retained cud" may or may not be what you claim it is. Ideally, a retained cud should show vertical displacement or horizontal offset. These indicate that the piece of the die was detached from the die neck. In this case I only detect lateral spread, which could mean that the piece of the die was still attached to the die neck.

Still, it's a very instructive specimen.

Cladiator

Howards/IGWT,

The coin appears to have a small clip. Noticeable on the reverse between AMERICA and CENTS. The corresponding spot on the obverse is right about the ST in TRUST. There also looks to be a small planchet defect in this same area on the reverse. The whole coin is littered with cracks that I didn't mention in the OP.

Yeah my buddy is a member on the Yahoo forum but I'm not sure what he uses as a user name. He's also a member here but hasn't come to this forum in a really long time (probably won't either).

Writersblock

I think the first "die crack" is also a retained cud. It does appear to have a slight vertical displacement

Shortgapbob

Very interesting thread and great discussion.

Shamika

Cladiator - That is indeed cool. It's great to see a single coin that can be used as a numismatic teaching tool such as this.

Longacre

I really like die breaks and cuds. Thanks for the informative post.

Coxe

I don't see the die stage study. Would have expected to see multiple sepcimens exhibiting progessive deterioration of the same features of the die. Nonetheless, that is one impressive shield nickel. Another 1882 in Fletcher's book (SNC-1882-3 on pg 205) shows a remarkable cud that goes deep into the central device. That baby was sheared right off. Thanks for showing yours. It is a great series for variety collecting.

Cladiator

<< <i>I don't see the die stage study. >>

The study is in the three distinctly different stages of die state detorioration that this one coin exhibits. The complete die break being the earliest, the retained cud the middle and the full cud the latest. No, it's not a study in the die state deterioration of this particular die but what I find interesting is it's display of multiple stages from crack to cud all on one coin.

BobaFett72

cool beans thanks for the photos.

CaptHenway

<< <i>Howards/IGWT,

The coin appears to have a small clip. Noticeable on the reverse between AMERICA and CENTS. The corresponding spot on the obverse is right about the ST in TRUST. There also looks to be a small planchet defect in this same area on the reverse. The whole coin is littered with cracks that I didn't mention in the OP.

Yeah my buddy is a member on the Yahoo forum but I'm not sure what he uses as a user name. He's also a member here but hasn't come to this forum in a really long time (probably won't either). >>



I said on our data base that it had a rim clip at "ST." Didn't you believe me, or did that part of the description not make in onto the flip ticket? I wrote up so much on that piece that the mention of the rim clip might not have fit.
Glad you liked the piece.
TD

Cladiator

<< <i>

<< <i>Howards/IGWT,

The coin appears to have a small clip. Noticeable on the reverse between AMERICA and CENTS. The corresponding spot on the obverse is right about the ST in TRUST. There also looks to be a small planchet defect in this same area on the reverse. The whole coin is littered with cracks that I didn't mention in the OP.

Yeah my buddy is a member on the Yahoo forum but I'm not sure what he uses as a user name. He's also a member here but hasn't come to this forum in a really long time (probably won't either). >>



I said on our data base that it had a rim clip at "ST." Didn't you believe me, or did that part of the description not make in onto the flip ticket? I wrote up so much on that piece that the mention of the rim clip might not have fit.
Glad you liked the piece.
TD >>

Tom, it wasn't a matter of not believing you or not. I just wasn't really concerned on whether it was or wasn't. The clip had zero influence on making the purchase. It was all about the three die state issues on the coin, in a row and in varrying degrees of severity. I really love the coin and I know my friend will as well. Thanks for a transaction that was slick as snot on a doorknob!

The flip ticket did mention a small clip, you didn't leave it off

Coxe

<< <i>

<< <i>I don't see the die stage study. >>

The study is in the three distinctly different stages of die state detorioration that this one coin exhibits. The complete die break being the earliest, the retained cud the middle and the full cud the latest. No, it's not a study in the die state deterioration of this particular die but what I find interesting is it's display of multiple stages from crack to cud all on one coin. >>



Yes, that is interesting. Not uncommon to find two of the three on a coin (though cuds are pretty darn uncommon in general).

howards

<< <i>Howards/IGWT,

The coin appears to have a small clip. Noticeable on the reverse between AMERICA and CENTS. The corresponding spot on the obverse is right about the ST in TRUST. There also looks to be a small planchet defect in this same area on the reverse. The whole coin is littered with cracks that I didn't mention in the OP.
>>



I don't think it's a clip. Looks more to me like incomplete metal flow due to the cud (the cud soaked up a lot of the pressure of the metal flow, leaving insufficient flow to fill the die design nearby and on the opposite side).

Of course, it's hard to be sure from photos.

JRocco

Great post Clad

CaptHenway

<< <i>

<< <i>Howards/IGWT,

The coin appears to have a small clip. Noticeable on the reverse between AMERICA and CENTS. The corresponding spot on the obverse is right about the ST in TRUST. There also looks to be a small planchet defect in this same area on the reverse. The whole coin is littered with cracks that I didn't mention in the OP.
>>



I don't think it's a clip. Looks more to me like incomplete metal flow due to the cud (the cud soaked up a lot of the pressure of the metal flow, leaving insufficient flow to fill the die design nearby and on the opposite side).

Of course, it's hard to be sure from photos. >>



I sold the coin. It is a slight rim clip, above the ST of TRUST and on the corresponding reverse rim. The small cud next to it did not cause the weakness on both the obverse and reverse rims.
TD

RichieURich

Great coin, Cladiator! Are you branching out into coins other than half dimes?

Cladiator

Bump, because it's a fun thread and might and maybe fome of the newer members didn't get to fee it.

STONE

Totally cool Cladiator.