Home Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum

Who are the "closest call" non-HOFers you can think of?

*Please, no discussion of Shoeless Joe or Rose. No technicality stuff like that.

I'm talking about really good players who were razor's-edge-close to being HOFers but never quite good enough statistically.

Blyleven was the first player I thought of. What about you?

-- Ryan Bell
«1

Comments

  • Andre Dawson, Don Mattingly, Roger Maris, & Dale Murphy
  • TJMACTJMAC Posts: 864 ✭✭
    I agree with some of the others but have to add Ron Santo, Steve Garvey and Gil Hodges.
  • maybe Lee Smith? he is the saves leader after all...
    image
    Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
    and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
  • GonblottGonblott Posts: 1,951 ✭✭
    Why isn't Roger Maris in the HOF? He did set a BIG record and was a good Yankee. Why not?
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Jim Kaat


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • colebearcolebear Posts: 886 ✭✭


    << <i>maybe Lee Smith? he is the saves leader after all... >>



    Isn't that Travor Hoffman now? But, none the less he should be

    I would say Blyleven and Mattingly blow my mind



  • << <i>

    << <i>maybe Lee Smith? he is the saves leader after all... >>



    Isn't that Travor Hoffman now? But, none the less he should be

    I would say Blyleven and Mattingly blow my mind >>



    Oh yeah, Hoffman did do that last year didnt he...

    See I dont see Mattingly that mind blowing though. If you look at his numbers they are not as good as you would expect, and his HOF tallies dont usually stack anywhere near what other players have accomplished. I think he ended up averaging something in the .300/.350/.450 with 20HR range, very good numbers but not quite those which you stand back and go WOW. He was really helped by the city he played in as well, otherwise his numbers kind of match up with guys like Hal McRae from what I remember. Doesnt Mark Grace also have comparable numbers to Donnie Baseball?
    image
    Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
    and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)


  • << <i>Why isn't Roger Maris in the HOF? He did set a BIG record and was a good Yankee. Why not? >>



    Maris only played about 6 or 7 full years though ~ tough to get a nod when thats the extent of your career, even if you did set a huge record and win a couple MVPs.

    He is probably one of those where its "He's already honored because of his single season accomplishments, I dont think we need to act like he had more of a career then he did" kind of things.

    Al Rosen is in a similar boat, his numbers at 3rd where so far advanced over others of the time and he came within a hit of a triple crown in his MVP season ~ at only about 7 seasons though its near impossible to say he belongs.

    Shoot, the HOF may have a minimum years played rule ~ anyone know for sure?
    image
    Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
    and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
  • Mattingly gets mentioned in these types of threads because he had some huge years...years where he was one of the dominant players in the game. In his big years he drove in tons of runs, hit .300+ and was always at 75+ extra basehits (along w/ excellent play at 1st base)
    Too bad his back gave out so early in his career...he played most of his career injured and never came close to his big years again.
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Luis Tiant and Tommy John


    Steve
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Shoot, the HOF may have a minimum years played rule ~ anyone know for sure?


    Yes 10 years is needed.

    but I am not sure the rule was in effect when he was eligible.

    counting his first 3 years he does have parts of 10 though.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shoot, the HOF may have a minimum years played rule ~ anyone know for sure?


    Yes 10 years is needed.


    Ralph Kiner just made it!


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭
    I haven't checked the stats but I would imagine if you say Tiant, John and Kaat that you have to think about Blyleven!? The old slipperly slope situation... if you let in him then you got to let in the next guy....
  • JVetteJVette Posts: 206
    OK - my Detroit bias will check in.

    I think that Jack Morris would be in the HOF, except for the fact that he didn't get along very well with the media.

    I would also like to see a HOF first - with two players inducted in a single plaque - Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammel. Both have stats that would match other HOFers in their position. And the fact that they were the DP combination for longer than any (or just about any) DP combination should be a consideration. I think to have them inducted together as a single entry would be a very interesting process for the HOF.

    - Jack
  • TJMACTJMAC Posts: 864 ✭✭
    Maris qualifies. I believe he played from at least 58-68.

  • Tony Oliva, Norm Cash and Rocky Colavito.....
    "If the Army and the Navy ever look on Heaven's scene, they will find the streets are guarded by United States Marines!" - Marine Corps Hymn
  • metalmikemetalmike Posts: 2,152 ✭✭
    I vote for Ron Santo and David Concepcion. Along with Ozzie, David was a premier s/s of the era. Low hit awesome defense.
    USN 1977-1987 * ALL cards are commons unless auto'd. Buying Britneycards. NWO for life.
  • ArchStantonArchStanton Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭
    Roger Maris & Jim Rice
    Collector of 1976 Topps baseball for some stupid reason.
    Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
    My Pirates Collection
  • Maris does qualify ~ weak like though…

    He played 4 years of 140+ Games (58, 61, 62, 64)
    3 years of 120-136 Games (59, 60, 67)
    and 3 years of 100-119 Games (57, 66, 68)
    he also had 2 under 100s (63, 65)

    So technically he had 12 years in the league; he only played an average of 121/Yr though. He also only put up “slightly above average” numbers really, his 162Avg numbers break down to a .260/.345/.476 22 Dbl, 30 HR, 91 R, 94 RBI. He’s way short on the HOF “Standards” and “Monitors” rankings on Baseball-Reference (only 22 and 83 with 50 and 100 being likely HOFer) and his most comparable hitters end up being the likes of Bob Allison, Jay Buhner, Jesse Barfield, Dean Palmer, Eric Davis, Danny Tartabull etc. Great player, but mainly for 2 years ~ otherwise he was hurt or just not that special. Does he belong? Well… I think its easy to understand why he isn’t in.

    Oh and YankeeFan ~ I think you summed up Mattingly pretty well. For about 3-4 years he was a monster, otherwise he was quite different.

    And JVette ~ I love your Tram/Whit plaque idea! Truthfully, Lou should be in anyway with Alan a close cut but probably making it on the Vets comm. Vote. But Jack Morris??? Ahhh…. As an Indian fan I cringe when I even think about that ~ flaking on the Tribe in 94 will never be forgotten and I think is enough to keep that deadbeat out (although this might be a bit biased image ) Oh I see your name is Jack, this isn’t a self promotion thing where I should now expect a visit is it?
    image
    Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
    and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
  • again with Belle Volver?

    Like I implied in the other thread, he probably would have had a shot if he wasnt suspended once a week for hitting fans with fastballs, threatening reporters in the dugout and running small children over with his SUV

    see, those are the kinds of qualities that I imagine would hurt a guy just a bit in the voting image
    image
    Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
    and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
  • razor thin close>?

    "but never quite good enough statistically."
    Blyleven... have you looked at his numbers? He should already be in the Hall.



    Andre Dawson, i agree, he's pretty close.

    Don Mattingly, he had a few monster years, a few good years.. and he needed at least 3 more decent years... i dont think he's that close

    Roger Maris, Retired at age 33, barely played 7-8 full seasons he needed 8 more good seasons. Breaking the single season HR record just doesnt cut it.

    Dale Murphy: my favoritre retired player...dominant player in the 80's 2 time MVP; just needed a couple of more seasons.

    I'd give Ron santo my vote.


  • Cokin75Cokin75 Posts: 243 ✭✭
    Jack Morris and Andre Dawson should both be in. Goose Gossage too.
  • williplettwilliplett Posts: 471 ✭✭
    Bert Blyleven without a doubt. The guy has well over 3,000 k's and 287. I read a stat once where Bert lost something like 25 games 1-0 in his career. I don't think Mattingly gets in. Rice and Garvey are close. Another guy who never gets mentioned, but had some monster years is Cecil Cooper. Speaking of Cecil's, Fielder had some good years too. Just not enough of them.

    I might be able to justify getting Morris in based on his game 7, 10 inning, 1-0 performance in 91. Was there ever a better World Series than that?
  • RoarIn84RoarIn84 Posts: 859 ✭✭
    Belle.....dunno....real creep as mentioned and who can forget the broken bat incident when the cork came crumbling out on live TV?

    i will obviously second the Tiger nods! Morris is a stretch. Winningest pitcher of the 80s notwithstanding, his overall numbers don't add up. never having an ERA under 3.0, he never really dominated. A no-hitter and 3 WS aren't good enough, and nobody's really impressed with W/L record anymore anyway.

    I've been touting the Tram/Sweet Lou double induction forever! don't think it'll happen that way tho. I'm confident Tram should get in anyway, but Lou would be a stretch. They were a true pleasure to watch and no combo will ever turn that many DPs together again! I actually would have put in Trammell before Molitor. Molly ripped the ball to shreds, but were it not for the DH position, his career would have been interesting..... but i think that will be our first dual HOF rookie card...
  • I think next year is the first year he is on the ballot....

    What do you guys think about Tim Raines?

    I think he's in.
    Trying to complete 1960, '61 and '68 Topps baseball sets...raw
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another vote for Blyleven.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Belle did not have cork fly out when a bat split (that was Sosa) There were the reports the Jason Grimsley raided Belle's locker and found a bat to be corked.

    Baseball has had a lot of crooks, cheaters and just not nice people, but it should be about what happens on the field - nothing more.

    Look at Belle's career - 12 seasons -10 full and it looks Hall worthy to me. Belle was the lynchpin of the mid-90's Indians team that won 5 straight divison titles went to 2 World Series.

    10 full seasons he averaged

    .298 - (4 seasons over .311)
    95 runs (over 108 4 times)
    167 hits (200 hits once)
    38 doubles ( 8 seasons over 35)
    37 home runs (8 seasons over 30 - 3 over 40 and 1 50 homer season)
    120 rbi (9 seasons over 100)
    Career OPS ranks 34th All-Time
  • Actually Volver, he did have his bat confiscated by the umpire and it was corked. The story goes that Grimsley crawled through the crawl space in the ceiling to get into the locked umpires room and switched the corked Belle bat with... a Paul Sorrento model! image It might not have been Grimsley of course (that only surfaced about 7 years ago after all), but someone broke into that locked room and replaced the bat that was originally confiscated. Belle was suspended for 7 days and explained “corkgate” with nothing more than pointing to his muscles and flexing ~ implying of course “does it look like I need cork”

    So anyway, Omar said it best in his book:
    "I can be naive at times, but I'm not stupid. Certainly not stupid enough to steal Albert's corked bat and replace it with one that looked completely different -- one that was autographed by Paul Sorrento. That wasn't even a nice try. The problem, of course, was that all of Albert's bats were corked." image (oh, how embarrassing for us Indians fans… )

    He was an amazing player, but... well its hard to get over all of his problems (and you know how much of a diehard Tribe fan I am so I'm lenient on him because of my bias!)
    image
    Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
    and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
  • ernie11ernie11 Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To add a new name - Joe Carter. Surprised he didn't merit more consideration. As a Phillies fan, I know how good he could be at times. 10 or 11 100-RBI seasons, just missed 400 HR's.
  • Andre Dawson
  • psu92psu92 Posts: 283
    The first player that comes to my mind is Gil Hodges. I can't believe the Veterans Committee did not elect him this year.

    I will throw out a player nobody mentions - Frank White. White has better stats than Mazeroski and if Whitaker gets in, White should get in, also. White and Whitaker have very similar stats.
  • redlegsredlegs Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe that Gil Hodges should be in. He had borderline HOF career stats but you also have to factor in his World Series championsip while managing the New York Mets.
  • Jim Rice ............. Great player but as close as can be without getting in........
  • are we going to take all the names listed here and create our own poll thread to vote in our HOFer(s)?
    image
    Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
    and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)


  • << <i>are we going to take all the names listed here and create our own poll thread to vote in our HOFer(s)? >>



    great idea!
  • jamesryanbelljamesryanbell Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭
    Now we're getting the idea. image
    -- Ryan Bell
  • Well, if we do that then we will need to write up a little paragraph detailing accomplishments as a "this is why you might want to vote for -so and so-" type thing.

    Otherwise it might just turn into a popularity contest with everyone voting for Maris because he is the biggest name despite his numbers possibly being the weakest.
    image
    Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
    and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How about Dave Parker. Just like Daryl Strawberry, if it hadn't been for his coke habit.....



    Steve
  • Lothar52Lothar52 Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭
    Fred McGriff
  • RoarIn84RoarIn84 Posts: 859 ✭✭
    i'd say Bill Madlock if he only could have amassed about 1000-1500 more at-bats. Man that guy could hit!!! 4 batting titles! .305 lifetime!
  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Without reading the whole thread, did anyone mention Richie Allen or Vada Pinson?

    If someone starts a "who doesn't belong in the hall" thread, I start with Bill Mazeroski.

  • ArnyVeeArnyVee Posts: 4,246
    I would vote for the likes of Tony Oliva, Bert Blyleven & Andre Dawson....among a few others.
    * '72 BASEBALL #15 100%
    * C. PASCUAL BASIC #3
    * T. PEREZ BASIC #4 100%
    * L. TIANT BASIC #1
    * DRYSDALE BASIC #4 100%
    * MAGIC MASTER #4/BASIC #3
    * PALMEIRO MASTER/BASIC #1
    * '65 DISNEYLAND #2
    * '78 ELVIS PRESLEY #6
    * '78 THREE'S COMPANY #1

    image

    WaltDisneyBoards
  • Oliva, Blyleven, Rice . . .
    NewJerseyMeatHook II
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Did anyone mention Al Oliver? >>




    Good call, agreed!!
  • jamesryanbelljamesryanbell Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭
    Wow, totally forgot about Oliver. good call.
    -- Ryan Bell
  • baseballfanbaseballfan Posts: 5,450 ✭✭✭
    i'm going with, rice (great top end player for many years), morris (great pitcher-most wins i the decade of the 80's i believe), hodges (very solid player on great teams (if Maz, pee wee and scooter are in what is keeping gil out?))
    Fred

    collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.

    looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started

  • WondoWondo Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭
    Hodges because of this hitting, being a member of the Boys of Summer and managing the Miracle Mets
    Wondo

  • gregmo32gregmo32 Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭
    I would like to think voters would be smart enough to realize how great Tim Raines was and vote him in to the HOF, but I don't think they are or will.
    I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy!
    Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
Sign In or Register to comment.