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Who are the "closest call" non-HOFers you can think of?
jamesryanbell
Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭
*Please, no discussion of Shoeless Joe or Rose. No technicality stuff like that.
I'm talking about really good players who were razor's-edge-close to being HOFers but never quite good enough statistically.
Blyleven was the first player I thought of. What about you?
I'm talking about really good players who were razor's-edge-close to being HOFers but never quite good enough statistically.
Blyleven was the first player I thought of. What about you?
-- Ryan Bell
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Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
Steve
<< <i>maybe Lee Smith? he is the saves leader after all... >>
Isn't that Travor Hoffman now? But, none the less he should be
I would say Blyleven and Mattingly blow my mind
<< <i>
<< <i>maybe Lee Smith? he is the saves leader after all... >>
Isn't that Travor Hoffman now? But, none the less he should be
I would say Blyleven and Mattingly blow my mind >>
Oh yeah, Hoffman did do that last year didnt he...
See I dont see Mattingly that mind blowing though. If you look at his numbers they are not as good as you would expect, and his HOF tallies dont usually stack anywhere near what other players have accomplished. I think he ended up averaging something in the .300/.350/.450 with 20HR range, very good numbers but not quite those which you stand back and go WOW. He was really helped by the city he played in as well, otherwise his numbers kind of match up with guys like Hal McRae from what I remember. Doesnt Mark Grace also have comparable numbers to Donnie Baseball?
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
<< <i>Why isn't Roger Maris in the HOF? He did set a BIG record and was a good Yankee. Why not? >>
Maris only played about 6 or 7 full years though ~ tough to get a nod when thats the extent of your career, even if you did set a huge record and win a couple MVPs.
He is probably one of those where its "He's already honored because of his single season accomplishments, I dont think we need to act like he had more of a career then he did" kind of things.
Al Rosen is in a similar boat, his numbers at 3rd where so far advanced over others of the time and he came within a hit of a triple crown in his MVP season ~ at only about 7 seasons though its near impossible to say he belongs.
Shoot, the HOF may have a minimum years played rule ~ anyone know for sure?
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
Too bad his back gave out so early in his career...he played most of his career injured and never came close to his big years again.
Steve
Yes 10 years is needed.
but I am not sure the rule was in effect when he was eligible.
counting his first 3 years he does have parts of 10 though.
Steve
Yes 10 years is needed.
Ralph Kiner just made it!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I think that Jack Morris would be in the HOF, except for the fact that he didn't get along very well with the media.
I would also like to see a HOF first - with two players inducted in a single plaque - Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammel. Both have stats that would match other HOFers in their position. And the fact that they were the DP combination for longer than any (or just about any) DP combination should be a consideration. I think to have them inducted together as a single entry would be a very interesting process for the HOF.
- Jack
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
He played 4 years of 140+ Games (58, 61, 62, 64)
3 years of 120-136 Games (59, 60, 67)
and 3 years of 100-119 Games (57, 66, 68)
he also had 2 under 100s (63, 65)
So technically he had 12 years in the league; he only played an average of 121/Yr though. He also only put up “slightly above average” numbers really, his 162Avg numbers break down to a .260/.345/.476 22 Dbl, 30 HR, 91 R, 94 RBI. He’s way short on the HOF “Standards” and “Monitors” rankings on Baseball-Reference (only 22 and 83 with 50 and 100 being likely HOFer) and his most comparable hitters end up being the likes of Bob Allison, Jay Buhner, Jesse Barfield, Dean Palmer, Eric Davis, Danny Tartabull etc. Great player, but mainly for 2 years ~ otherwise he was hurt or just not that special. Does he belong? Well… I think its easy to understand why he isn’t in.
Oh and YankeeFan ~ I think you summed up Mattingly pretty well. For about 3-4 years he was a monster, otherwise he was quite different.
And JVette ~ I love your Tram/Whit plaque idea! Truthfully, Lou should be in anyway with Alan a close cut but probably making it on the Vets comm. Vote. But Jack Morris??? Ahhh…. As an Indian fan I cringe when I even think about that ~ flaking on the Tribe in 94 will never be forgotten and I think is enough to keep that deadbeat out (although this might be a bit biased ) Oh I see your name is Jack, this isn’t a self promotion thing where I should now expect a visit is it?
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
Like I implied in the other thread, he probably would have had a shot if he wasnt suspended once a week for hitting fans with fastballs, threatening reporters in the dugout and running small children over with his SUV
see, those are the kinds of qualities that I imagine would hurt a guy just a bit in the voting
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
"but never quite good enough statistically."
Blyleven... have you looked at his numbers? He should already be in the Hall.
Andre Dawson, i agree, he's pretty close.
Don Mattingly, he had a few monster years, a few good years.. and he needed at least 3 more decent years... i dont think he's that close
Roger Maris, Retired at age 33, barely played 7-8 full seasons he needed 8 more good seasons. Breaking the single season HR record just doesnt cut it.
Dale Murphy: my favoritre retired player...dominant player in the 80's 2 time MVP; just needed a couple of more seasons.
I'd give Ron santo my vote.
I might be able to justify getting Morris in based on his game 7, 10 inning, 1-0 performance in 91. Was there ever a better World Series than that?
i will obviously second the Tiger nods! Morris is a stretch. Winningest pitcher of the 80s notwithstanding, his overall numbers don't add up. never having an ERA under 3.0, he never really dominated. A no-hitter and 3 WS aren't good enough, and nobody's really impressed with W/L record anymore anyway.
I've been touting the Tram/Sweet Lou double induction forever! don't think it'll happen that way tho. I'm confident Tram should get in anyway, but Lou would be a stretch. They were a true pleasure to watch and no combo will ever turn that many DPs together again! I actually would have put in Trammell before Molitor. Molly ripped the ball to shreds, but were it not for the DH position, his career would have been interesting..... but i think that will be our first dual HOF rookie card...
What do you guys think about Tim Raines?
I think he's in.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Baseball has had a lot of crooks, cheaters and just not nice people, but it should be about what happens on the field - nothing more.
Look at Belle's career - 12 seasons -10 full and it looks Hall worthy to me. Belle was the lynchpin of the mid-90's Indians team that won 5 straight divison titles went to 2 World Series.
10 full seasons he averaged
.298 - (4 seasons over .311)
95 runs (over 108 4 times)
167 hits (200 hits once)
38 doubles ( 8 seasons over 35)
37 home runs (8 seasons over 30 - 3 over 40 and 1 50 homer season)
120 rbi (9 seasons over 100)
Career OPS ranks 34th All-Time
So anyway, Omar said it best in his book:
"I can be naive at times, but I'm not stupid. Certainly not stupid enough to steal Albert's corked bat and replace it with one that looked completely different -- one that was autographed by Paul Sorrento. That wasn't even a nice try. The problem, of course, was that all of Albert's bats were corked." (oh, how embarrassing for us Indians fans… )
He was an amazing player, but... well its hard to get over all of his problems (and you know how much of a diehard Tribe fan I am so I'm lenient on him because of my bias!)
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
I will throw out a player nobody mentions - Frank White. White has better stats than Mazeroski and if Whitaker gets in, White should get in, also. White and Whitaker have very similar stats.
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
<< <i>are we going to take all the names listed here and create our own poll thread to vote in our HOFer(s)? >>
great idea!
Otherwise it might just turn into a popularity contest with everyone voting for Maris because he is the biggest name despite his numbers possibly being the weakest.
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
Steve
If someone starts a "who doesn't belong in the hall" thread, I start with Bill Mazeroski.
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WaltDisneyBoards
<< <i>Did anyone mention Al Oliver? >>
Good call, agreed!!
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