What good can come from the Manley/Kagin dispute? Probably nothing.
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I have been thinking of the Manley/Kagin dispute. Does anyone know of any good that can come from this hearing proceeding as planned? I cannot think of anything.
On the one side, we have a MAJOR monetary contributor to the ANA. Right now, the ANA is hurting for cash, and scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to make ends meet. I am not saying a corporate right-sizing is the solution, but something needs to be done to keep a lid on expenses. The ANA probably does not want Manley to be annoyed with it if the expulsion hearing does not go Manley's way. If Manley loses, there is a risk that the free flow of cash from Manley to the ANA would stop.
On the other side, we have Dr. Kagin. I have never really dealt wtih Dr. Kagin before, but from what I've heard, he has a very good reputation in the coin world. I also hear that he does a lot for the ANA that goes unnoticed by the masses. If the expulsion hearing does not go Kagin's way, he, too, will be annoyed with the ANA and the ANA will lose out on a prominent member.
Because no good can seem to come of this explusion matter, should the ANA Director try to get the two parties together and broker a peace? Although the hearing was supposed to be held in St. Louis (but could not because time requirements for responses to the allegations could not be made in time), maybe this is fortunate, and the ANA Director can channel his energies for something positive, and try to end this very unfortunate situation. What do you think?
On the one side, we have a MAJOR monetary contributor to the ANA. Right now, the ANA is hurting for cash, and scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to make ends meet. I am not saying a corporate right-sizing is the solution, but something needs to be done to keep a lid on expenses. The ANA probably does not want Manley to be annoyed with it if the expulsion hearing does not go Manley's way. If Manley loses, there is a risk that the free flow of cash from Manley to the ANA would stop.
On the other side, we have Dr. Kagin. I have never really dealt wtih Dr. Kagin before, but from what I've heard, he has a very good reputation in the coin world. I also hear that he does a lot for the ANA that goes unnoticed by the masses. If the expulsion hearing does not go Kagin's way, he, too, will be annoyed with the ANA and the ANA will lose out on a prominent member.
Because no good can seem to come of this explusion matter, should the ANA Director try to get the two parties together and broker a peace? Although the hearing was supposed to be held in St. Louis (but could not because time requirements for responses to the allegations could not be made in time), maybe this is fortunate, and the ANA Director can channel his energies for something positive, and try to end this very unfortunate situation. What do you think?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
I suppose anything's possible, though.
You must have missed Laura's comments.
I knew it would happen.
Don Kagin has been a very active member of the ANA for a long time, and devotes a lot of time to their cause. He lectures and offers assistance in many ways. He has one of the neatest educational seminars that I have ever seen. When he dresses up as the old miner, it blows people away.
As to what he knew or did not know about this particular situation is speculation. I find it quite sad that he is being bashed on this and other forums for what "may or may not have happened".
I am sure that no one here would like to be drug through the dirt such as this. Now if the facts come out that he did something wrong, fine, but until that day, we should remember what he has done for the hobby.
***edited for spelling***
No one really knows what actually happened other than the two parties in a dispute and God. To that extent, any evidence would probably be circumstantial.
I suspect, having been around the business block once/twice, this is more personal than business. There is a personal issue at stake here somewhere, and someone is using the court system and a public forum where -- unfortunately -- one is presumed guilty and has to prove his/her innocence.
I'm not sticking up for one or the other nor do I claim to know anything other than what I've read in publications...but I'm just saying there is more to this than the "vanilla" argument, I suspect.
Just my 10 cents
he paid. Possibly he assumed it was stolen and low balled the offer OR he possibly was underpayingf a customer to the
tune of $400 grand or more. Please enlighten me.
Dan
<< <i>My only question is why Kagin paid bullion value on a rare gold bar and quickly sold it under the table for 8-10 times the cost
he paid. Possibly he assumed it was stolen and low balled the offer OR he possibly was underpayingf a customer to the
tune of $400 grand or more. Please enlighten me.
Dan >>
I agree that Kagin's actions do sound rather suspicious. However, I don't feel any sympathy for somebody who keeps a gold bar in their garage and then doesn't realize that its been stolen until sometime afterwards.
Money, the opportunity to make money, deals and the opportunity to make deals pop up every day in every field of human endeavor. Some people are better at making money and making deals than others for various reasons (drive, desire, publicity, fame, wisdom, experience, luck and the family that one is born into). What is supposed to moderate human excesses (i.e. a huge/obscene profit for one at the expense of another in the form of a RIP of a grieving widow) is first and formost morals and ethics and second of all laws.
For the Manley/Kagin dispute over the gold bar, I am not familiar enough with the details to give more than a general comment on it.
Lots of conduct by involved persons could be pointed at as being less than what one would expect in an ideal world, including keeping the bar in ones garage with workmen around, a workman deciding to be "light fingered Louie", a local Orange County dealer to whom the workman presented the gold bar offering to pay the guy and paying the guy bullion melt value for the bar (get real, this local dealer had to have suspected that "light fingered Louie" was lying and notwithstanding these suspicions decided to buy the bar and decided the "market value" of the bar was bullion melt value when buying from the thief) and including other events through the present.
I say let the mediation proceed in a public forum if the ANA rules require same. The outcome of a public proceeding may be that people who deal with coins may decide, when presented with the next deal or money making opportunity, to conduct themselves in a manner where they would not be concerned about having their conduct reviewed after the fact in a public forum.
Please get your facts straight before posting.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
My recollection of the story as set forth in the artical is that the worker who took the bar went to a local dealer in Orange County, presented the bar and gave a fictitious story about how he came to possess the bar. The guy wanted to sell the bar and I understand that the local Orange County dealer paid the guy melt value for the bar (a little over $30,000.00). The local Orange County dealer then tried to resell the bar to another and at some point in time after the local Orange County dealer bought the bar from the thief Mr. Kagin was contacted.
By the way, I understand that Mr. Kagin has a degree in numismatics. It would be interesting to learn the details of his obtaining this degree.
Dan
And Laura, now your dime story has gone from Don Kagin losing the dime in a previous thread, to his client losing the dime in this thread. Which is it?
Just trying to keep the facts straight which is often nearly impossible when reading this forum.
Fatman - It's easy. Just ignore Laura.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Laura may be guilty of reckless blabbering but she is no villain. Beyond that, I'm not pointing fingers until I get my bet down in Vegas. Anyone know who's making the line?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Just trying to keep the facts straight which is often nearly impossible when reading this forum.
Fatman - It's easy. Just ignore Laura. >>
Easier said than done.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Just trying to keep the facts straight which is often nearly impossible when reading this forum.
Fatman - It's easy. Just ignore Laura. >>
Ah...Thanks for the clarification.
It is a shame that Manley ever even accused Kagin. Manley has no convincing proof of anything and Kagin does not deserve what he is getting. The sooner this whole thing is over with the better.
Jeepers! We had already acquitted Kagin and have stopped discussing it, and now you post to the thread making us wonder why the lady doth protest too much.
<< <i>I suggest you stop discussing this topic Longacre. Nothing against you personally, but I do not believe any good will come out of talking about this topic on the boards.
Jeepers! We had already acquitted Kagin and have stopped discussing it, and now you post to the thread making us wonder why the lady doth protest too much.
Sorry, but I sense that the subject is not done with on these boards