If the ANS or ANA came to you, hat in hand, for assistance to save themselves, would you help?

Longacre

We have heard time and time again about the financial woes at the ANA. Enormous deficits, year after year, no clear plan to get out of the hole, robbing Peter to pay Paul, etc., etc. Now I see a thread started by our own "Scoop" Michigan, who now tells us that the ANS is in dire straits, expenses running in excess of revenues, and may be looking to depart its beloved Manhattan location. I don't know all of the circumstances regarding the causes of the financial predicaments of these two entities, but it is certainly a shame from my prespective as an enthusiastic numismatist.

Obviously, something needs to be done to pump more money into these organizations. If the ANS and the ANA came to you, with hat in hand, looking for some money to right the ship, would you lend some financial support? Everyone falls on tough times every once in a while, including entities and organizations, so they should not be too proud to beg. What would you do to help this most unfortunate situation?

Barndog

no way! I only pay taxes because the alternative is not desirable.

ziggy29

If they wanted to give me a good deal on some of their collection in order to get some cash, I'd be all ears. Otherwise? Not so much.

MacCrimmon

The ANS could start with a raffle for some of their early coppers.

Zoins

It's important to ask a few questions:

(a) Why are they in financial trouble? What have they spent their money on? Have they been fiscally irresponsible?

(b) If their financial woes are caused by their own actions, what have they done or what are they planning to do to make sure it doesn't happen again?

I think it's very important for organizations asking for donations to be effective and transparent in how they have spent and will spend donated funds.

BobGreene

If the ANA came to me, and I had the money to spare, I would gladly help however I could but only under the condition that Cipoletti resign. I am not a member of, nor do I know anything about, the ANS.

Barry

Did anyone see the latest Guest Letter in Coin World. I don't recall specifics, but someone has been trying to get some info, including financials. from the ANA and just gets the run-around. Not surprising, and the answer is no.

Shamika

I wonder how much ANS's address costs them each year. Property tax in Manhattan must be insane.

ricko

No, they are a worthless organization providing zero services/benefits. I have asked the question here multiple times and NO ONE provided a single input. Organizations such as these are dinosaurs that continue to exist to stroke the ego's of a pitiful few. Cheers, RickO

guitarwes

I agree with Zoins. Some questions need to be asked before any $$$ is shelled out. It might be poor management make poor decisions.

BECOKA

No, outside being a member they need to start from scratch and deal with the funds they have and use it appropriately. They have enough funds to educate, retain numismatic libraries, maintain donated collections etc.. they just mis-use those funds and are now in debt.

PinnacleRarities

I would absolutely help the ANA if they came to me with 'hat in hand'....

...wait, they DO come to me twice annually asking for donations, and I've ALWAYS ponied up. We give thousands every year. And at the last Mid Winter we gave away over 200 coins to Young Numismatists.


My background is education, and I've always had a soft spot for the ANA. Regardless of their mismanagement, their mission to help educate the numismatic community, and their work with kids and young numismatists is enough to warrant aide. I'm disappointed with the way things have been handled, but while I donate money, I don't donate time and that I fear is part of the problem. A more active dealer community would help relations. And, my gripe is that most of the people who complain about the ANA, don't want to do anything to help.

bidask

<< <i>I would absolutely help the ANA if they came to me with 'hat in hand'....

...wait, they DO come to me twice annually asking for donations, and I've ALWAYS ponied up. We give thousands every year. And at the last Mid Winter we gave away over 200 coins to Young Numismatists.


My background is education, and I've always had a soft spot for the ANA. Regardless of their mismanagement, their mission to help educate the numismatic community, and their work with kids and young numismatists is enough to warrant aide. I'm disappointed with the way things have been handled, but while I donate money, I don't donate time and that I fear is part of the problem. A more active dealer community would help relations. And, my gripe is that most of the people who complain about the ANA, don't want to do anything to help. >>

good point

Zoins

There seems to be many that have offered to help the ANA by running for the board. I don't think the new board candidate gag order resolution bodes well.

Outhaul

<< <i>Obviously, something needs to be done to pump more money into these organizations. If the ANS and the ANA came to you, with hat in hand, looking for some money to right the ship, would you lend some financial support? Everyone falls on tough times every once in a while, including entities and organizations, so they should not be too proud to beg. What would you do to help this most unfortunate situation? >>



I disagree. Institutions that rely on public support are, and should be, subject to fail. Failure of these institutions indicates that there is not enough interest in them to keep them afloat.

Without the two institutions mentioned, numismatics will still go on.

Many of these institutions like to make the public think that their (the public's) quality of life would suffer greatly without them; public television being the most obvious. My, and millions of others, lives will still go on without them.

The collapse of many of these institutions is a self-destructive process. Paying themselves high salaries coupled with excessive travel and extravagant surroundings will bankrupt most organizations.


Cheers,

Bob

Michigan

According to Numismatic News the ANA had to dip into their endowment to make up a budget gap of
approx. $815,000 The endowment is worth around $19.5 million and generates enough money each
year to make up the most recent budget gap so the ANA is in no danger of going broke anytime soon.

Zoins

<< <i>According to Numismatic News the ANA had to dip into their endowment to make up a budget gap of
approx. $815,000 The endowment is worth around $19.5 million and generates enough money each
year to make up the most recent budget gap so the ANA is in no danger of going broke anytime soon. >>

Good information. One question, have we learned that $20 million is not a lot of money?

jmski52

About a year ago, the ANA published their organizational objectives in an attempt to explain their logic in asking for money to authorize official grading services.

I've never been a member, but why on earth would a collector want to support a business who's main focus is on raising capital by using a means which creates a conflict of interest between it's collector members and it's financiers?

If the ANA gets tribute money and free services from a TPG, they automatically endorse that TPG. You might think that they would endorse the grading services which have the most consistant grading standards and the best customer service, combined with the highest ethical standards. Not so! Only the highest bidder.

Also, in my recollection, their mission statement didn't include squat about promoting the hobby or promoting collectors' interests, and in fact they proposed cutting back on a number of collector programs, rather than expanding them. Maybe they should cut all the way back to zero, and start over.

Outhaul

<< <i>Not so! Only the highest bidder. >>


Now you're seeing the big picture!

Follow the money trail and you'll find their mission.

Zoins

<< <i>If the ANA gets tribute money and free services from a TPG, they automatically endorse that TPG. You might think that they would endorse the grading services which have the most consistant grading standards and the best customer service, combined with the highest ethical standards. Not so! Only the highest bidder. >>

That's true but many have argued that the currently endorsed TPG has the most consistent grading standards and the best customer service, combined with the highest ethical standards (when it comes to the grade guarantee and using 3rd party price guides). That might be just coincidence or it could be that the TPG with the most consistent grading and best customer service is rewarded by their customers, resulting in the ability to pay the most.

ricko

Cheers, RickO

TwoSides2aCoin

member # R-3124356


that's as far as it goes.

If I renew for 5 years, I could save $15

edit to add:

Of course, I'll have to spend $165 to save that fifteen bucks

ipmman

The hobby needs authentification services. NGC has added that to their services, but for many items, there is no exact grading standard, and NGC is applying COIN standards to exonumia. In part, this invalidates their authentication, because the grades are not valid, how do we know they have any expertise in these areas to authenticate? Lets face it NGC is a grading company.

ANAAB was not that great though, because they basically had 1 person do most of the authentication. How can 1 person have an expertise on everything?

Anyhow, NGC is making money doing it, there has to be a way the ANA can do the same.

291fifth

No. Organizations like this often get into trouble when their goals become too grandiose for their budgets. They need to come back down to reality or disappear. It's not uncommon for leadership in these groups to refuse to face reality.

Zoins

<< <i>The hobby needs authentification services. NGC has added that to their services, but for many items, there is no exact grading standard, and NGC is applying COIN standards to exonumia. In part, this invalidates their authentication, because the grades are not valid, how do we know they have any expertise in these areas to authenticate? Lets face it NGC is a grading company. >>

Why are NGC's exonumia grades any less valid than PCGS coin grades? Does PCGS have exact grading standards that they put in writing? Too much kool-aid?

TomB

<< <i>Obviously, something needs to be done to pump more money into these organizations. >>


I could not disagree more with that statement, and am surprised that it hasn't struck a chord with others, too. I am not at all convinced that these organizations need more money. However, I believe that they might need to be run with more realistic goals, in a more efficient manner and with more transparency.

Zoins

<< <i>

<< <i>Obviously, something needs to be done to pump more money into these organizations. >>


I could not disagree more with that statement, and am surprised that it hasn't struck a chord with others, too. I am not at all convinced that these organizations need more money. However, I believe that they might need to be run with more realistic goals, in a more efficient manner and with more transparency. >>

ricko

TomB.... true words of wisdom.... Bureaucracies first order of business is ALWAYS self preservation... NEVER is their priority the good of someone or something else. Cheers, RickO

Myqqy

If the ANA gets tribute money and free services from a TPG, they automatically endorse that TPG. You might think that they would endorse the grading services which have the most consistant grading standards and the best customer service, combined with the highest ethical standards. Not so! Only the highest bidder.

I've never been comfortable with that type of whoring behavior...

2ndCharter

Yeah, right - with multi-millionaires on the boards of these organizations, they're going to ask middle-class little ol' me for money? HA!

Coxe

I'd redirect them to a DEAR NIGERIAN FRIEND whose email address I might have handy.

ricko

Good one Coxe... Cheers, RickO