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If all you can afford are problem coins...

291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
...is it time to find a new hobby?

Comment.
All glory is fleeting.

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  • numismanumisma Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭✭

    Absolutely not. There was a point in my life I could not afford ANY coins at all........problem coins or not. I still loved the hobby and everything about coins. The way I participated in the hobby was to just read about coins and enjoy what I already had in my collection. Coins are in your blood.....not your wallet.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If that's all that you can collect, then I would advise you to become an expert at net grading and placing values on problem coins.

    If it's rare enough, every numismatic item has a market value. The trick is to be able to discern what the value is when there are no clear cut price guides on the subject.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    some people nearly exclusively collect problem coins (e.g. contemporaneously-holed coins)
    JR Newsletter Online Edition
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If all you can afford are problem coins . . . is it time to find a new hobby? >>



    I have 2 anwers:

    1) No. There are as many ways to collect as there are collectors, and you don't have to spend a lot of money to have fun.

    2) Your premise is off base, IMO. If all that can be afforded are problem coins, the chosen specialty could be reconsidered. If, for example, you attempted to build a set of early $10 Gold pieces on a shoestring budget you would certainly have to limit yourself to problem coins, but the same budget applied to Lincoln Cents would likely carry you pretty far.

    Coin Rarities Online
  • BigRedBigRed Posts: 716
    No, I'm at a point to were I think coins are getting to expensive for me but I get just as much enjoyment out of reading about coins, history of coins,looking at pictures of coins and reading this forum as I did with buying and looking at coins.
  • walkerminus1walkerminus1 Posts: 244 ✭
    If you are taking it to the extreme of not able to collect anything, then collect circulated coins from 1980 and newer. And when times get really tough and you need the money, roll them and head to the bank.

    Rob

    I believe if you are collecting for fun, then it doesn't matter what you collect.
    4/92
    4/123
    -----------
    Invested $216.76
    Return on Investment $0.68
    Found but keeping $.15
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is your premise that only the well-to-do should collect coins? hmmmmmm kind of an elitist opinion. Cheers, RickO
  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,100 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Look, I think unless you collect coins that grade exclusively MS67 and above, all you can afford are problem coins. As a hobby, we are within fairly consistent tolerances about our valuation with regard to three kinds of problems -- strike weakness, wear, and bag marks. There is a wider range of tolerances, and therefore a shakier sense of valuation, around the myriad other problems one encounters, but the equation is really no different. Very few of us can afford to collect perfect examples of the coins that interest us most. I think we all find the balance that suits us. For my big $75 coin purchase this month, do I want a 42-D Jefferson in Gem that, alas, is missing a step (a problem!) or do I want a Fugio that is barely recognizeable after two centuries buried in a salt marsh? It's all relative. Neither coin is perfect.

    What if I had only $5 to spend? I could come up with the same balance.

    If I only had a quarter, there is lots I could do straight from circulation -- and with some diligence and shrewd trading, it wouldn't be long before I could turn that quarter into the aforementioned 75 bucks, or 750, or 7,500. That's one of the funnest things of all about this hobby, frankly.

    PS, 291 -- you finally graded a seated coin (the quarter in the poll thread) higher than me! Congratulations!
    mirabela
  • curlycurly Posts: 2,880 ✭
    What BillJones said.
    Every man is a self made man.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The question refers to what you WANT to collect. You shouldn't read anything more than that into it.

    BillJones suggestion that you should learn how to net grade is a good one. From what I have seen, most collectors are too generous when net grading coins. They will learn how generous they were when it comes time to sell.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭
    Picking from pocket change is coin collecting - that nice new shinny penny could be valuable in 15 years!
  • TCoinsTCoins Posts: 567 ✭✭
    I recently purchased a Pilgrim comm. that was harshly cleaned on the obverse. I love this coin! The sailing ship on the reverse is awesome. The depth in the the strike makes it look 3-D. Its a true beauty. I could never afford to purchase this coin in MS65. But who cares. This hobby is about the enjoyment of the coins not the price tags associated with it.
  • ttownttown Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭


    << <i>some people nearly exclusively collect problem coins (e.g. contemporaneously-holed coins) >>




    Yes that's about right if you have an problem coin just drill a hole to increase it's value to someimage Me I'd just change what I collected and get something in my price range.
  • Rob41281Rob41281 Posts: 2,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
    to me it depends on what your interests are. if youre collecting based on the overall appearance or value of a coin then you dont want problem coins. however if you collect because the history of them, where they came from, what they mightve been used for fascinates you, then a holed coin might have more history to it. An unc coin never passed thru the old general store or taverns, wasnt worn as a charm, never played a part of the past that the holed or problem coins may have.

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/rs8199/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TCoins speaks like a true collector. Cheers, RickO
  • BulletBiterBulletBiter Posts: 326
    No
    - There are 10 kinds of people in this world...those who understand binary and those who don't!
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Not necessarily. Problem coins can be collectible, too -- just discount them for what they are and don't pay a problem-free price for them.

    Of course, the Darkside would be another option, too.
  • CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,240 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some of my favorite coins are problem coins. Couple of them are the most valuable as well. Problem coins aren't always a problem image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    219fifth---What is your budget and what are your interests? With this information we could probably give you a few suggestions.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>BillJones suggestion that you should learn how to net grade is a good one. From what I have seen, most collectors are too generous when net grading coins. They will learn how generous they were when it comes time to sell. >>

    True. I think many people "net grade" according to what they saw again and again in ANACS holders. The usual default was to knock one full grade off the coin -- for example, XF details, net VF.

    There aren't many cleaned XFs I'd pay VF money for, unless it was a relatively light cleaning, the eye appeal was adequate for what it is and the value jumps very sharply between VF and XF.
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    I don't like the term "Problem Coins". It implies that if a coin isn't perfect it's worthless. And we see this tone through lots of threads here. There are very vew net grading discussions here.
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I have a type set. My recent coins are gems, my middle coins are like problem free EFs and AUs. My earlier coins are nice Fines and VFs

    And yes, my entry-level coins with dates in the 1700s are "problem coins" because that's all I can afford right now.

    So what? you got a "problem" with that? image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • BRdudeBRdude Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭


    << <i>An unc coin never passed thru the old general store or taverns, wasnt worn as a charm, never played a part of the past that the holed or problem coins may have. >>


    What fun is that unc slabbed coin??? What history does it hold?? Did it just sit in somebodies safe or even inventory, never seeing or being history in the making. No my friend, the problem coins WERE somewhere, were spent, bartered with,, and may even have been in the hands of a president. Maybe Abe, or George, or Teddy (my personal favoriteimage Nothing in this world as beautiful as history in your hand. Collect what interests you in whatever grade you can afford. THAT is where the hobby becomes fulfilling. I'm not a rich man. Just a blue collar guy doing the best I can. Oh yea, I sometimes envy some of the guys here for the things they can afford that I will never be able to own, but this board lets me enjoy that stuff nearly as much as owning it. Just my feeliings about it for what it is worthimage
    AKA kokimoki
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  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,680 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>219fifth---What is your budget and what are your interests? With this information we could probably give you a few suggestions. >>



    This question has no reference to my own collecting interests. My own "old #1" an 1843-O quarter, which was given to me by my grandfather in 1956, is a problem coin. I will never sell it.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • DeusExMachinaDeusExMachina Posts: 1,325 ✭


    << <i>The question refers to what you WANT to collect. You shouldn't read anything more than that into it.

    BillJones suggestion that you should learn how to net grade is a good one. From what I have seen, most collectors are too generous when net grading coins. They will learn how generous they were when it comes time to sell. >>



    Net grading problem coins and properly pricing them is an advanced skill, without a doubt. But I also like Bill's suggestion.

    What series interests you? I am sure you can find bargains (ex early gold).
  • yellowjacketyellowjacket Posts: 1,809 ✭
    Why not build a pictoral collection from all the images that are available? image

    Garrow
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Net grading problem coins and properly pricing them is an advanced skill, without a doubt. But I also like Bill's suggestion. >>

    In reality it's not so much net grading as it is net pricing.

    Let's consider two coins -- let's say seated dimes, 1843 and 1843-O (though plenty of other examples could be found). The coins both have solid EF details but have a light-to-moderate cleaning. Let's say the eye appeal is decent considering the problem, and they essentially have the same look and level of detail.

    The 1843 Philadelphia coin has a value of about $35 in VF and $55 in EF. The 1843-O has a value of around $250 in VF and close to $1000 in full EF. It would be hard to "net grade" both of these to the same grade, because you'd probably be overpaying for the '43-P and underpaying for the '43-O. At "net VF-20," for example, the '43-P for $35 wouldn't be all that attractively priced given the problems, but an EF detail '43-O for $250 would probably be a screaming buy unless the problems were severe.

    The reality is that both of these coins would be "net priced" to different places on the grading scale. The '43-P might have to be "net priced" down to F-12 money to be a decent buy while the '43-O might only be "net priced" down to VF-30 money or even VF-35 money.
  • DUIGUYDUIGUY Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If that's all that you can collect, then I would advise you to become an expert at net grading and placing values on problem coins.

    If it's rare enough, every numismatic item has a market value. The trick is to be able to discern what the value is when there are no clear cut price guides on the subject. >>





    image Well said!
    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."



    - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC

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